Talk:Vale of Holmesdale

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Holmesdale?[edit]

Don't you mean Vale of Holmesdale? I've not got a copy of Dudley Stamp, but Trueman (Geology & Scenery in England & Wales, revised 1971 by Whittow & Hardy), the Bartholomew Gazetteer etc call it the Vale of Holmesdale, as do various websites such as this one. Pterre (talk) 21:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Navi/Compass boxes along the route[edit]

I have put navigation boxes along all villages that have sprung up below the North Downs along much of the route between Winchester, Hampshire and Canterbury, Kent as far as I can, if anyone else would like to add any more then that would be appreciated, especially near Chilham and Lenham and on to Folkestone. Adam37 (talk) 17:32, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Derivation of name[edit]

The name Holmesdale does not need the word Vale as a vale is a dale, and vice versa, although the name Vale of Holmesdale is established by precedent and usage. The word `holm' is an old English word for `holly'. The Holm Oak is a Mediterranean species introduced in the 16th century, and it is unlikely that a large area like this would be named after a localised introduced species. Topographical n.d. place names in England usually date far earlier than the 16th century apart from those of settlements. Better sources for the origin of this name should correct the errors in the text under `Rivers'. Barney Bruchstein (talk) 17:01, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The name "Vale of Holmesdale" predates the introduction of the evergreen mediterranean Holm Oak to Britain, so the attribution of the valley to the holm oak is a mistake, and misinformation. I have removed this false etymology from the article.Aliveness Cascade (talk) 23:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Vale of Holmesdale" was used in "A Perambulation of Kent" by William Lambarde, 1576, where his reference to it makes clear it is a well-established name.
A Holm Oak was first planted in Britain in the late 1500s,[1] but was only widely cultivated in the 1800s, and only found in the wild in 1862[2]. The Atlas of the Botanical Society of Britain and Ireland does not record it in the area before the 1950s.[3].Aliveness Cascade (talk) 00:01, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As someone who lives in the area, it seems highly likely to me that "Holmesdale" actually comes from the word "holm" (plural "holmes"), using the meaning "a piece of flat ground by a river which is submerged in times of flood"[4], which aptly describes this area with its abundance of streams and brooks which flow into its several rivers, which are locally well-known for flooding. Although I can readily believe this, it is of course just speculation, so I'm placing it here in talk, not in the article. Perhaps a source will turn up with further investigation. Aliveness Cascade (talk) 00:14, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/british-trees/a-z-of-british-trees/holm-oak/
  2. ^ https://www.brc.ac.uk/plantatlas/plant/quercus-ilex
  3. ^ https://database.bsbi.org/atlas/map_page.php?spid=1637
  4. ^ https://www.lexico.com/definition/holm

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