Talk:White Hispanic and Latino Americans/Archive 3

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"Hispanic" = "Mestizo"?

Recent edits have added the statement that "In the United States, academia, media and political discourse, Hispanic and Latino is synonymous with Mestizo (a person of mixed European and Amerindian descent) and on occasion with Mulatto (a person of Sub-Saharan African and European descent), giving the false impression that all Hispanics and Latinos are people of color." Two citations were provided to support this.

One is a blog post. Blogs are generally not reliable sources, and none of the exceptions appear to apply here. The second appears to be a self-published essay, linked with excerpts from an "upcomming" book, (therefor currently unpublished). As no prospective publisher is cited, one cannot assume this would be published by a major publisher or some other entity which excersizes the needed control and verification to make it a reliable source.

I am going to revert the insertion of this satement. I ask that it not be reinserted without reliable sources, and preferably not without talk page discussion first. (See Bold, revert, discuss.) If either of the above sources is to be used, please provide reasons on this talk page why they should be considered reliabel sources. And PLEASE, let us keep this discussion CIVIL, and adhere strictly to the no personal attacks policy. These policies are particularly important when discussing controverisal issues or matters where people have strong feelings or opnions. DES (talk) 17:23, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

The statement is clearly false. There are many Hispanics, especially Argentines, of largely or even exclusively European ancestry. Even Pope Francis is technically Hispanic. Steeletrap (talk) 19:22, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

"White" Mestizo Hispanics

Mestizos who lack black ancestry (i.e. are mixed European and indigenous) have no 'box to check' on the census, as Native American (for federal reporting purposes) refers to indigenous people from the United States. They are therefore, probably erroneously, classified as 'white' by default. This should be noted, as it skew the 'white Hispanic count' (it is a majority, or 53%, of U.S. Hispanics, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that a large proportion of them are not perceived as white). This should be addressed in the article using reliable sources. Steeletrap (talk) 19:25, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Actually the US Census states: "'American Indian or Alaska Native'” refers to a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment." Also, per Census instructions, a person who is of Indigenous and European ancestry should check the box for both White and Native American. US Census Bureau Definition of Race Categories Used in the 2010 Census: "Overview of Race and Hispanic Origin: 2010" March 2011Patapsco913 (talk) 23:10, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
You need a tribal registration (or connection to an NA community) to check that box; unlike (for example) Asian or African American, ancestry is not sufficient. While it does indeed encompass Mexico (and Guatemala, Costa Rica, etc), this leaves out all of South America, from which most Hispanics descend. Hence almost no Hispanics -- including Mestizos -- check "native american." There is ample evidence that they feel they don't have a race that applies to them. I stand corrected on the Central America thing; I meant to say it excludes South america. Steeletrap (talk) 08:01, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

As Patapsco913 says, the US Census Bureau includes South American Natives in the box "American Indian or Alaska Native"....but it is true that most of those Hispanics who answer "Some Other Race" (43%) are Multiracial or Native. I am from Spain and I don´t think that English speaking Hispanics exist. That is ridiculous. If they are English speaking, then they are Anglos and if they are White they should be included among White Anglos, not among White Hispanics, or, if they are Black, they should be included among Black Anglos, not among Black Hispanics....but the U.S. media tries to portrait Hispanics as a race, the "Brown" race, something similar to the "Coloureds" in South Africa....but remember that the great Afrikaner leader, General Jacobus de la Rey had also Spanish ancestry, lol.--83.63.225.149 (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Salma Hayek is not White!

Salma Hayek is not even perceived as white in Latin America or Mexico! So why here? I remember an interview Salma said she was too dark and short for leading roles in Mexico so no one paid attention to her. Her father is NOT full Lebanese but HALF Lebanese and half Mexican (info in the spanish article I linked). This is her not-white father, he's the shortest one btw the other three Mexican men that don't look different from him proof Then there's her "spanish" mother from Veracruz of all places! Yeah that's pretty hard to swallow.--76.213.237.54 (talk) 18:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

You do realize the Spanish language is of European decent, right? And you do realize that Spaniards are white, right? Just like Portuguese or French and any other spoken language in the Latino/Hispanic communities (where do you think the word Latino comes from? e.g. latin languages aka Spainish, Italian, French, Portuguese etc etc). Skin colour does not constitute "white" or "non-white". There are different shades of "white" to begin with. Case in point: President Obama is a white man, believe it or not (his mother was white etc), just because one would identify him as purely a black man based on certain characteristics, does no longer make him white. When the Spanish came to the Americas and conquered/slaughtered/raped the natives of the land, they left more behind than just their language. These faces of Latin/Hispanic America are not necessarily native to these lands. Look at characteristics of Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas and now compare them to modern day Hispanics/Latinos. See the difference? Sure, some more than others do look more native, but many don't at all (in fact a lot of natives have very eastern/southeastern Asian characteristics). How could this be? Oh right, it is called mating or in a lot of cases: offspring of rape etc. This comes with migration and exploration, and yes conquistadors. Once you get off your high horse, you will realize how the world is really a lot more connected than you may think. Don't even get me started with the Moors from the Middle-East conquering Spain/Portugal/Parts of Italy/France before the conquistadors had their way with the "new world". Oh, and lets overlook the entire Roman Empire, which compromised of Europe, Africa and the middle east, even before all this. You are not as "pure" as you may have been lead or want to believe. I surely am not. Read up on history, please. Thank you. 98.112.130.156 (talk) 10:48, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
*roll eyes* Yes actually I know cause I'm Hispanic! And Salma is NOT white/criolla. She's 1/4 Mexican from her father plus whatever little black/amerindian blood her Veracruzan mother might have hidden. I estimate she's at least 20% non-Caucasian blood in her. She's considered castiza, mixed, not white Comprendes.--76.213.234.161 (talk) 23:22, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

There is a difference between classic biological anthropology based on skull shape, modern genetics, and socially accepted, popular views on what is race. "White" in the US is loaded with the baggage about distinguishing a particular germanic ethnic group (english) with other european ethnic groups, and subsaharan africans. Even Irish and Italians weren't considered "white" for a very long time. Salma Hayek clearly isn't northern european, but she clearly has "caucasoid" features and mostly caucasian genetics - so, by all reasonable estimates, is mostly "white."

By the way, saying you are "1/4th Mexican" is like saying you are "1/4th american," it is not very rigorous. What tribe in the area? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race It is nonsense to say Obama is "white." He clearly has both subsaharan african and european genetics.

I also have an issue with the anti european meme and complaining about "imperialism," it's racist garbage tolerated because the last empires where controlled by europeans. Pre-industrial revolution societies were largely imperialist and "K-Selected" (scarce resources). It was "conquer, or be conquered," it's largely as simple as that.

saying "White Hispanic" is an Oxymoron + Change the title

Who says "White Anglo"???... yeah that's what I thought. The word Hispanic itself is White by default hence why the Hispanics that marked the "'Some other race' category are reclassified as white by the Census Bureau in its official estimates of race" as stated in the article. I think the title should read "Hispanic & Latin American Whites" cause that's how "Non-Hispanic Whites" would read out in that order. --76.213.234.161 (talk) 00:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

AFAIK, "Hispanic" and "Latino" are about culture and where you, and your relatives were born. It is NOT about race. So you can be of English ancestry and Latino if you were born in Chile, for example. "Other" hispanics are not listed as white in the Census. If you are clearly mestizo, and you willfully report that on the census form, you would put yourself down at latino/hispanic and "other" for race. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FusiliJerry (talk • contribs) 13:21, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Puerto Rican, Mexican Americans and Colombian Americans infobox image representation

The two largest Hispanic groups (Mex-Americans, Puerto Ricans) are heavily underrepresented in the infobox images. For example, Mexican Americans comprise 64% of all Hispanics in the U.S. with half of them claiming white ancestry yet there are only two Mexican Americans out of the 24 images, while there are five Argentinian Americans and seven Spanish Americans represented. There is also only one Puerto Rican American in the infobox. Keep in mind that the latest U.S. Census shows that there are just under 32 million Americans that claim Mexican descent and 4.7 million Puerto Rican while there are only 635,000 Spanish-Americans and 224,000 Argentine-Americans. This clearly shows a Spanish, Argentinian POV. If you are looking for a list of Mexican Americans of European descent here it is: Linda Ronstadt, Ted Williams, Louis C.K., Sara Paxton, Ricardo Montalban (Spanish ancestry), Nora Volkow, Camila Cabello, Jorge Ramos, Kat Von D., Eva Longoria, Hector Barreto, Joan Baez, Lauro Cavazos, Dana Gioia, Gilbert Roland, Catherine Bach, Carlos Bocanegra. White Puerto Ricans include: Jose Ferrer, Ana Ortiz, Samuel Ramirez, Horacio Rivero, Jr., Victoria Justice, Joseph M. Acaba, Jon Seda, Geraldo Rivera, Maurice Ferre, Gloria Tristani. The infobox needs to show a more equitable representation of all Hispanics (Mex-Americans, Puerto Ricans, Colombian-Americans, Venezuelan-Americans) and not just one particular group (Spanish American).


B575 04:25, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

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Sentence Confusion

The following 2 sentences in the 4th paragraph (quoted below) can be interpreted in several ways. "As of 2010, 50.5 million or 16.3% of Americans identified as Hispanic or Latino.[15] Of those, 26.7 million, or 53%, also identified as White." However, I think what the author was trying to say is "...16.3% Americans identified [themselves] as Hispanic...". If not, I would like it updated in order to understand what were the author's intended statements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.159.82.184 (talk) 07:09, 8 November 2014 (UTC)


I'd like to add: " However, genetic studies performed in the general Mexican American and Mexican populations have shown that Mexicans residing in Mexico consistently have a higher European admixture in average (with results ranging from 37%[14] to 78.5%[15]) than Mexican-Americans (whose results, range from 50%[16] to 68%[17])." The average of these numbers counters the claim of the sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.167.36.91 (talk) 09:10, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Actress Alexis Bledel

Her roots are danish, german, english and irish; shown on her page. only why she is born in South America she is Latino? 2A02:8109:B2C0:2B60:4920:E6A4:D02:760 (talk) 01:01, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Collage

I made a Collage for this article,the people in the collage are limited to pics at the commons and sources which are very difficult to come by the only thing i really paid attention to is making it almost even with gender because of these limitations —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiscribe (talk • contribs) 02:47, 19 February 2010


File:WhiteHispanics.jpg

Juan Bandini Alexis Bledel and Andy Garcia Pitbull Bob Martinez Christy Turlinton Sabrina Bryan Linda Ronstadt Ted Willaims Anita Page Madeleine Stowe Jerry Garcia Alexa Vega Martin Sheen David Farragut

and of course the ones that were already there Cameron Diaz

Rita Hayworth[1] · Christina Aguilera[2] · Kenny Florian[3] · Daphne Zuniga[4] · Romualdo Pacheco[5] · Raquel Welch[6] · Michael Lopez-Alegria[7] Cameron Diaz Ricky Martin Salma Hayek

Bob Martinez Christy Turlinton Sabrina Bryan Linda Ronstadt Ted Willaims Anita Page Madeleine Stowe Jerry Garcia Alexa Vega Martin Sheen David Farragut

and of course the ones that were already there Cameron Diaz

Rita Hayworthf>http://www.nndb.com/people/546/000031453/] · Christina Aguilera[8] · Kenny Florian[9] · Daphne Zuniga[10] · Romualdo Pacheco[11] · Raquel Welch[12] · Michael Lopez-Alegria[13] Cameron Diaz

Title issue

Why is the title of the article «White Hispanic and Latino Americans»? It should be «Latin Americans» in that last word as «Latino» is a U.S.-made contraction of "Latin American". Could someone please move the article like that? Thanks in regard. --Bankster (talk) 06:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Latin American refers to nationality, whereas Latino refers to ethnicity/ancestry. This article is about people whose nationality is American and who ethnically identify as Latinos. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 04:44, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Image gallery

Per MOS:NOETHNICGALLERY, "Articles about ethnic groups or similarly large human populations should not be illustrated by a photomontage or gallery of images of group members". I've removed the images. Please do not restore them without broad consensus. Any individual images meant to illustrate the topic need to be accompanied by a published, reliable source affirming their significance to the group. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 19:16, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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