Talk:WolframAlpha/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Wolfram Alpha page should be reinstated
I gather this was deleted since it met Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion "as an article about a web site, blog, web forum, webcomic, podcast, browser game, or similar web content that does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject."
A Google search of "Wolfram Alpha" (which includes the quotation marks) responds with:
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,080,000 English pages for "Wolfram alpha". (0.07 seconds)
Any technology which is generating 2.1 million Google hits before it is officially released, must be conceived by many to have significant importance. Whether that importance was expressed in the original article I do not know, as I did not read it.
Stephen Wolfram is not exactly a modest man (he drastically overstated the importance of his New Kind of Science for example), so the importance might not be as great as may be claimed, but if it generates 2.1 million Google hits, I would say Wolfram Alpha is important enough to have a Wikipedia entry.
Drkirkby (talk) 09:10, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
- I've added some citations that I lifted from Stephen Wolfram and restored the article since I feel it now meets every relevant criterion for retention. Thanks are due to Drkirkby, who brought this to my attention. Accounting4Taste:talk 15:18, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank God, it's back
I created the first version that was destined for speed-deletion by someone, and despite attempts to hold on, it really disappeared a day later. That was crazy. I would personally be surprised if this became a Google killer, on the commercial front etc., but some people think so and it is clear that it is a big and highly nontrivial multi-million project of a world's leader in computer manipulation with data and the article about it on Wikipedia can't be missing. --Lumidek (talk) 10:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Whoever submitted it for deletion is clearly an idiot with no foresight whatsoever. Crazy Eddy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:47, 18 May 2009 (UTC).
The article as it stands on 9-Jan-2010 is hopelessly biased. I don't recall seeing another article on Wikipedia that is so glowing. Would we tolerate an article of this kind about Microsoft? Heck, an article about Jesus Christ or Buddha would wind up more balanced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.61.72.63 (talk) 22:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia RIP
I guess this was deleted 'coz this is supposed to be capable of putting Wikipedia to grave - since the data returned to the query will be ones input by experts, unlike Wikipedia, where anyone can contribute
although personally i think that's impossible, due to several very obvious reasons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aditya Gautam (talk • contribs) 12:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Corrected Name of Search Engine
Wolfram Alpha is not actually the name of the search engine; it is Wolfram|Alpha, as used on the search engine site and in the blog for the search engine. http://blog.wolframalpha.com/--Gramery (talk) 22:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Discussion About Renaming Page
This page should correctly be called Wolfram|Alpha, not Wolfram Alpha. However, renaming the page correctly means that a markup character (|) will be part of the title. I have never done a rename/ redirect to an article before, and because the new name is unusual, I'd like to get feedback on whether it is a good idea. I don't think most people know the correct name now, and so virtually everyone would be going to the redirect page first. And if people agree with me that the change is appropriate, I don't mind if someone with more experience does the move. Before this I have only corrected grammar mistakes and typos.Gramery (talk) 00:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- The pipe character is not allowed in page titles. A template is available for this case: {{pipe in title}}, which renders:
I am not going to use the template to put the comment up about the correct name of the page until further discussion takes place on what name the engine should use in the article. Despite the comment in the history reverting the change, the pipe character is used within the website and the blog website- and they have the pipe character in the html title for a reason- because that is the correct name.Gramery (talk) 18:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- I agree that the name should be changed to reflect its official title, but it's not especially vital. Exchanging the pipe for a space does not render the title ambiguous, unlike, say, putting a space in "PlayStation" to yield "Play Station", which are related though historically distinct entities.
- There are also precedents for products that have idiosyncratic names that are renamed by the public for more colloquial use. Using more videogaming examples, early on Nintendo insisted on describing the Gamecube as "GAMECUBE", in all caps (that didn't last too long, and eventually it was renamed to GameCube). Furthermore, their official abbreviations usually put a model identifier before the product line, so Game Boy Advance is officially "AGB", although the public abbreviates it as "GBA", an abbreviation which is used extensively in Game Boy. People managed to accept the official abbreviation of "GCN" for the Gamecube, although "NGC" can still be found in use.
- In the end, the point should be to clarify understanding while accurately representing the source material. Again, I'm all for changing every instance of "Wolfram Alpha" to "Wolfram|Alpha", but man is that a pain to type.
- KHAAAAAAAAAAN (talk) 22:51, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Pipe character removal from Wolfram|Alpha text in article
I am not going to start a revision war, however, even some of the article titles on this page use a pipe character or a / to represent the name of the search engine, despite the comments on the revision that took the | character out of the name. See bulleted link 2 in Further Reading, and bulleted link 3 in External links. As this is the correct name of Stephen Wolfram's creation, it should be represented correctly in the article. Please provide further discussion to explain why the search engine name should not be represented correctly.Gramery (talk) 18:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- OK, the pipe is sometimes used, most notably by Wolfram's blog. The official webpage is ambiguous, though. Many publications go against that "annoying" character in the plain text. Why you're so convinced what is the "correct" version? (I think time will show.) I am not going to start a revision war either; if the pipe prevails I'll change it myself. For the moment I think we should mention the "piped" version in the lead and use the typical ordinary "spaced" version in the text. Others may have different ideas. ptrf (talk) 20:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you for noting your reasons. Since the article is referencing both now, I am willing to wait and see what the title becomes with usage once the engine goes live. I do agree that it is an extremely awkward name, and they may decide to change it officially.Gramery (talk) 14:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
- The formatting in question "(Wolfram|Alpha)" Need only be displayed once. MOS:TRADEMARK is quite clear- avoid using trademarked or otherwise 'official' spellings that involve unusual punctuation (like "Macy*s", "Se7en", etc). The mention of the officially used formatting in the lede is enough. --King Öomie 19:43, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you for noting your reasons. Since the article is referencing both now, I am willing to wait and see what the title becomes with usage once the engine goes live. I do agree that it is an extremely awkward name, and they may decide to change it officially.Gramery (talk) 14:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
verifiability
i think wolfram alpha raises some interesting questions regarding verifiability. obviously, the overriding one - WA seems to base its info on verifiable sources; does it follow that WA is a verifiable source? --Kaini (talk) 02:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
- if you look at the faq page on the site, they consider it a primary source for academic purposes. riffic (talk) 02:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I have raised the matter for discussion at WikiProject Mathematics. --Pleasantville (talk) 15:58, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Limitations
I've noticed some cases where the response given by the software is more than a little confusing. Try http://www96.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y^x%3Dx^y, for instance. The solution offered is incomplete, and the graph does not cover the more interesting parts of the equality. Then try http://www96.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+y^x%3Dx^y%2C+x%3D-2..6%2C+y%3D-2..6. It fails to plot anything, and does not offer any explanation as to why. Does anyone know what's going on here? 114.76.44.0 (talk) 09:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Gross Limitations
Although typing into the search bar the expression (1.001)^1000 yields a correct answer, wolframalpha.com evaluates (1.0001)^10000 (and all higher powers) as zero! Why not just say "limits of computation exceeded" or whatever?
Another example, typing in "Rexford Tugwell" (a member of FDR's Brain Trust, and fictiously appointed Roosevelt's successor by Phillip K. Dick), the site yields the answer "Did you mean Rexford Maxwell?".
Well if you can't even provide information easily found in Wikipedia, what good are you? Seriously though, it just shows how hard a problem it is to create a computer as smart as a rather dull human being.
WolframAlpha will never replace Google, or rival HAL, though it is a handy shortcut to all kinds of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.171.24 (talk) 16:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, you can get the correct result using exact input: "(1+1/10000)^10000" or compute how well this approximates e: "(1+1/10000)^10000 - e"--GregRM (talk) 02:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Wolfram|Alpha redirection?!
It's bad enough that the correct title of the article cannot be Wolfram|Alpha, but can we at least have Wolfram|Alpha redirect here?! Crazy Eddy (talk) 19:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- You can't have a redirect from that because you would need a page with that title. (And if that were the case, there'd be no need for a redirect.) --Rajah (talk) 05:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
logo trivia
The logo used by Wolfram|Alpha is a polyhedron known as "rhombic hexecontahedron".[1]
Source: [1] http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RhombicHexecontahedron.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.195.6.10 (talk) 21:48, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
British mogul?
The opening paragraph refers to Stephen Wolfram as British mogul. I am wondering if that's the right term to use. He used to be a scientist, until now he was predominantly developing and selling scientific software. Maybe his profession could be left out or maybe businessman is a better term? Ben T/C 11:01, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- OK, I did that. The article about SW says physicist, mathematician and businessman. Stating all threes would be too long in this intro, IMHO. --Ettrig (talk) 12:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
cyc
I cut a quote from Douglas Lenat, founder of Cyc, since it seemed to be an extended comparison of the two programs, and i felt that wasn't really part of the overview. I left in the reference to WA's similarity to cyc though, since the fact the concept *isn't* new *is* relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasemurphy (talk • contribs) 06:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
reception
I've put in some text under the heading 'reception', since we've reached the stage in the media cycle where most of the hype is about the hype... Jasemurphy (talk) 06:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
wfalpha.com & wolfa.com
ResolvedLinks to mirrors are unnecessary in general, and especially inappropriate in this case. --Conti|✉ 11:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
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wfalpha.com is not a "short link" to Wolfram Alpha. It is a (probably illegal) mirror site which appears to be in Morroco. --Pleasantville (talk) 16:20, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
In general, let's not add links to any kind of "mirror sites" (in particular those with advertisements). I removed the googfram.com link from the article, as it provides no new information. — Miym (talk) 06:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Cwiker has been blocked indefinitely for using multiple accounts; he was part of a group of accounts pushing for links to wolfa.com.--Pleasantville (talk) 14:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC) Queries submitted to wolpha.com now yield the message "Blocked Your request was submitted via a website unaffiliated with Wolfram|Alpha and without license to utilize Wolfram|Alpha's services. Please go to www.wolframalpha.com and attempt your query again. Thank you. — The Wolfram|Alpha Team" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.6.167 (talk) 02:24, 10 November 2009 (UTC) Queries submitted to wolfa.com now yield the message "Blocked Your request was submitted via a website unaffiliated with Wolfram|Alpha and without license to utilize Wolfram|Alpha's services. Please go to www.wolframalpha.com and attempt your query again. Thank you. — The Wolfram|Alpha Team" --Pleasantville (talk)) 13:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Regardless of whether the mirrors are legitimate or spam, or whether wolfram alpha likes them or not, they are not appropriate external links. We link to the official site only. So this entire discussion is pretty much moot, IMHO. --Conti|✉ 08:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
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Stephen Wolfram
This is a page about Wolfram Alpha, not Stephen Wolfram. The description of Stephen Wolfram on this page should be consistent with his Wikipedia entry. Assessment of Stephen Wolfram should take place on the Stephen Wolfram Wikipedia entry, not here and should be consistent with WP:BLP standards. --Pleasantville (talk) 12:00, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- What about we change the sentence in the lead to "It was announced in March 2009 Stephen Wolfram, creator of Mathematica", or something similar? The he's a physicist, author, businessman, etc. is pretty irrelevant for this article. That he created Mathematica on the other hand, on which Wolfram Alpha is heavily based on, is quite relevant for the lead of this article. --Conti|✉ 12:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- It initially said physicist, as I recall, which is consistent with the article, as he is primarily by academic training a physicist. It has been endlessly played with, moastly by people editing from IP numbers.--Pleasantville (talk) 12:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- I have been following with great amusement the various qualifications that Stephen Wolfram has been receiving. I just undid your last edit which seems to me like the best compromise. The point is this: Stephen Wolfram is extremely good at self-promotion, and four qualifications for him is strongly reminiscent of the self propaganda for which he is famous. Is he a physicist? He has a degree in physics, but so does Douglas Coupland. Is he doing physics? Only if you believe him that we should abandon all modern physics and do physics via cellular automata instead. Is he a mathematician? Only if you believe that holing yourself up away from the mathematical community for many years and producing a book of which that community is widely skeptical (citations available if you need them) and seems neither new (many others have worked on the same ideas), nor science (unless you believe again in the almighty cellular automata) nor kind (he present all the work with a vague hint that it's all his without explicitly crediting ideas to others) is mathematics. He is undeniably an author (has recently published a book) and a businessman (Mathematica and Wolfram Alpha pull in a pretty penny), but the other qualifications aren't so clear-cut.
- My point is this: I agree with you that this is not the place to discuss Wolfram's character. That should be done in his article. The problem is that putting those four qualifications sounds propagandist and contestable by the very same academic community that supposedly grants those recognitions. Removing all qualifications and letting readers click on his hyperlinked name should they want to find out more about Wolfram's character seems like a good compromise here. Alternatively, labelling him here simply as "principal force behind Mathematica" or similar seems good too for this article (his authorship of Mathematica is also contested, as he initially wrestled copyright from his coauthors by threats and lawsuits, his litigious tendencies are well-known too). Swap (talk) 13:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- whilst i don't know a whole lot about mr. wolfram (i briefly used mathematica in college, and have toyed with WA), it's indisputable the recent anon material belongs in the Stephen Wolfram article, if anywhere. one thing i have observed is that large chunks of the biography article read very WP:ADVERTy --Kaini (talk) 00:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
OR
I just removed the OR template. In fact, the section in question lists some simple examples that are easily verifiable by direct copy-pasting into WA. The last para is referenced. The first one contains some rather well-known characteristics, see e.g. WA blog (linked elsewhere), I see no big need for a ref (but feel free to add one if you like). ptrf (talk) 14:46, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Can references be renumbered automatically?
As of the time of me writing this, the first reference in the article is numbered 3. The second reference is numbered 1. Does Wikipedia support automatic numbering? If so, it would clearly be logical that they are renumbered. Drkirkby (talk) 23:08, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- It is renumbering automatically. But the numbering is starting from the infobox, because that's the first text in the article. Trivialist (talk) 00:58, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
- In connection with this, see Bugzilla:18890 and this test wiki. Note that the cite errors seen on the main page of the test wiki are intentional for testing purposes. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official": [...]
Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration [...]. In the article about a trademark, it is acceptable to use decorative characters the first time the trademark appears, but thereafter, an alternative that follows the standard rules of punctuation should be used:
Since there's no overwhelming reason why the pipe should be an exception to this rule, I've taken it out, and hope it stays that way. 81.110.104.91 (talk) 13:45, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
The limit that doesn't exist
I added a brief explanation as to why the limit that Wolfram says is 0 doesn't exist, as there was previously no justification for this statement. I'd like to explain a little more thoroughly, but I don't want to clutter up the article. A solid reference would be better than any kind of explanation in this article, in my opinion.
I guess that the inclusion to observe that wrong answers do happen is a valid one, but perhaps if/when the article gets longer, it'd be better to have this example under a "limitations section" or similar. A longer explanation probably wouldn't feel out of place there... Tcnuk (talk) 14:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
The Iphone Application
On October 17th, 2009 Apple approved the Wolfram Alpha Iphone/Ipod Touch Application. Someone should add this to the Article, as I do not have the exact time. Link to the Application is Here. Techcrunch recently covered it, Here. RttamTNC 00:53, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Funding
How about some information on how W-A is funded, and how it plans to make an income? This information would be relevant...Devadaru (talk) 17:34, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
- Wolfram|Alpha is a privately-held company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elle100 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Random edits of Wolfram things.
I have noticed that things relating to Wolfram have been edited randomly. This, however, may be readily fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Numbertheorist (talk • contribs) 22:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Wolfram Alpha Widgets
The Capabilities section needs to be updated to discuss Wolfram Alpha Widgets. --Pleasantville (talk) 18:15, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Samuel Davis
Who is Samuel Davis and what is his connection to WA? Under the first section, "Design" it reads:
Samuel Davis created a design that lets users submit queries and computation requests via a text field
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.158.189 (talk) 14:47, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
- I think someone is having a little joke. I have removed it. JonMcLoone (talk) 08:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Easter eggs
The Easter egg section has long gotten out of control. I propose that as a list of trivia it should be deleted. At the very least we should only keep those items that are well sourced with something indicating that the particular Easter egg is significant. SQGibbon (talk) 08:36, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
- I just thought that I'd throw in that I have a list of Easter Eggs that you might want to see. I won't be doing anything with them. See: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15NrYIPmHGhWxmtNoWIdkJkqnmXr8DpU6cq_r9MkUqAk/edit?hl=en_US HankyUSA (talk) 08:51, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
- Done. I also went through and removed a huge wad of other primary material which had been obtained directly by running queries through the system. With any luck this will encourage future editors to add secondary analysis in future. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 10:44, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Wolfram Beta?
When will Wolfram Beta come out? Or does the 'alpha' not denote that the system is still in development?
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.152.45.22 (talk) 18:18, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
- This isn't a forum for discussing the subject. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 10:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- @Chris its a legitimate a point of order / definitional question. I think Alpha is the name of the engine, not the developmental codename indicating a version before beta, similar to the Alfa Romeo. Can anyone find a source? --161.7.95.110 (talk) 16:51, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
good search tool
what is wolfram the name of the inventor? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.139.45.154 (talk) 10:35, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Mysterious deletion of Wolfram links from Wiki pages
I get impression that wolfram links are unsupported by wiki as being extreaneous to wiki's aims, as i have posted a Wolfram formula describing all aspects of a hot air baloon's physical function, in the hot air baloon external links, and an editor has deleted my contribution twice under the premise that: "wiki is not a collection of external links" wolfram lift formula, an example for air baloons here is the link that was deleted for no reason, it is a problem for me. Am i at fault? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.112.195.5 (talk)
- Basically, it's the case that WolframAlpha doesn't really explain it well, and it's likely that the the page already talks about the mathematics. If it doesn't, then there's probably room for an external link which does, but WolframAlpha doesn't really do that. This is the case for most links to WolframAlpha, and hence why it shouldn't be used as an external link. --Izno (talk) 15:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Criticism section
Perhaps the page needs one, but the proposed text needs more work. I have moved it here and inserted comments on what is wrong with it. I should point out that I am an Wolfram Research employee, though am not principally involved in Wolfram|Alpha.
Critics of Wolfram Alpha argue that its stated mission ("to make all systematic knowledge immediately computable and accessible to everyone"[1]) is false due to the project's for-profit nature.
- At least needs a [who?] tag, and does not logically follow that a for-profit company cannot make knowledge accessible.
An early source of friction between Wolfram Alpha and its users was the iOS app. At the time of release, it was one of the most expensive apps at $50 despite offering the same features that one could freely access by using a web browser instead[2]. Wolfram later changed the price to $2 and offered a refund to users who bought it before the price change[2].
- This contradicts the first claim, since it says that functionality was too freely available to justify the price of the app.
Users have noticed that despite the emphasis placed on new features, the release of Wolfram Alpha Pro has led to the removal of some useful features from the free version[3] (e.g. increasing the computation time, exporting the responses to queries and an ad-free experience).
- Probably wants a [who?] tag and is largely factually incorrect. Ads have been in Wolfram|Alpha since day 1, so there was never an ad-free experience before. Basic text and PDF export is still free (albeit now requiring a free login) and the new export features (CSV, XLS, SVG, etc) were never available before. I am uncertain about the extended computation time, but I think there was only a "try again" button before, not "extra computation time".
The service's developers have also been accused of standards proliferation given their exclusive use of the CDF format and also their recent interest in securing a top level domain for data storage purposes[4].
- Should have a [who?] tag and Wolfram|Alpha does not make exclusive use of the CDF format. The blog item does not state that Wolfram is trying to secure the TLD, it says that it wants to "provide leadership" and "work with partners". However I have no inside information on this topic, to know, any more than Connor Behan what this means.
JonMcLoone (talk) 10:03, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- You make some good points but please remember that pieces of criticism are allowed to contradict eachother. If a product is criticized by one group for being too cheap and criticized by another group for being too expensive, that does not make it any less true that criticism is being issued. The only item in this list that truly bothers me is the disappearance of the free "try again with more time" option. I will start rewriting this section soon. But when the "who" means "the people who wrote comments in the citation at the end of this sentence", what is a better way of saying that?Salute to Wikimedia! (talk) 20:54, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- I think making clear the contradictory nature would make for easier reading. I had wrongly assumed that the sentences were related. However, I think you may have some trouble with pseudonymous blog comments counting as reliable sources . JonMcLoone (talk) 22:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- I checked inside the company, and am told that the "More time" link was made available in the free service as an "experimental" feature, as part of the test cycle leading up to the release of Wolfram|Alpha Pro. (IE to make sure it worked right, before trying to charge money for it!) JonMcLoone (talk) 17:42, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
One note for readers of the talk page: the 'standards proliferation' charge is based on the fact that CDF is Wolfram's own invention. This article needs a better criticisms section. Surely there are stories on websites that are critical of Wolfram Alpha, are there not?? Eaglizard (talk) 09:10, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Bad link
The reference to Richard Stallmans comment, number 18 ^ [4], does not work anymore. --91.65.70.230 (talk) 10:57, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Misplaced?
FTA: "Example: "lim(x->0) x/sin x" yields the expected result, 1, as well as a possible derivation using L'Hôpital's rule, a plot, and the series expansion."
This doesn't fit in the Technology section at all, and I don't think it goes anywhere in the article. 184.166.12.197 (talk) 22:00, 29 May 2012 (UTC)