Talk:Women's Flat Track Derby Association Division 1

Proposal for Member Leagues list

The extant lists of members and former members are confusing, as they comprise different versions of eligibility. When the Divisions system was launched, membership was considered to be held for the calendar year, with Playoff eligibility being subject to the June 30 ranking - this held for 2013 and 2014, and was for the top 40 members at the start of the year, regardless of where they stood come Playoff time. Then starting with 2015, divisional gameplay requirements were discontinued, and membership was simply the teams as of June 30 who were eligible for Division 1 Playoffs; again, for 2015 and 2016, the top 40 eligible teams as of June 30. Starting with 2017, this is still the case, with the reduction to the top 36 eligible teams.

I think that continuing to have one list of "current members", featuring entry dates for teams that have stayed in the top 40/36, and a secondary list of "former members" is unwieldy and unnecessary. I suggest that we do a couple of things:

• have a single list of the current year's member teams, titled by year. As of now, it can be the 36 teams for 2017.
• for teams that are eligible but decline participating in Playoffs, they be listed with an asterisk as having qualified but declined.
• teams that were ranked high enough but declared ineligible for Playoffs but listed separately, noting this status.
• the template at the bottom of the article page would feature the 36 participating teams, plus the eligible teams that decline, but not the teams declared ineligible. (this is how the template currently is structured for D1 and D2, using last year's members.)

For past years, if it is felt there is value in past membership, I think the simplest thing would be a separate chart per year, which would list ALL members, even those that are current, rather than just those that are former. These charts can note the criteria for inclusion. The 2013-2014 years could potentially be rolled into one chart to save space and duplication, with a column noting which year(s). Starting with 2015, when membership simply denotes Playoff eligibility/participation, I would suggest one complete chart per year. For that matter, the lists of past membership could be listed with each year's Playoff table. Or kept separate as they are now.

At the end of the day, current membership is the most important one, and I am happy to start putting that one together, ahead of updating the template. Open to suggestion about the past members and how to present.

I would also propose a similar structure for the Division 2 article. Echoedmyron (talk) 23:03, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

@Warofdreams: - do you have an opinions on this? I have also started a somewhat related discussion at Talk:Women's Flat Track Derby Association Division 2 regarding Playoff results for D2 teams, but now that Playoffs are in progress I wanted to get moving on updating the D1 members. In the short term, at the D2 article I have added the 2017 D2 members without splitting off past members for now, awaiting any community feedback.Echoedmyron (talk) 20:22, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

I definitely like your proposals for the current list; they are clear and easy to implement and keep up-to-date. I think there is value in listing former members; I wonder whether a chart with rows for all leagues which have ever held membership and columns for each season; a bullet point to indicate they held membership, asterisk for declining and some other symbol for ineligible leagues? Or potentially listing positions at playoffs instead of bullets? Warofdreams talk 02:31, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

For past members - are you thinking one chart of all past members, with say a column in which to list each year? Which could appear as an example as "2013, 2015-16" and asterisk relevant years accordingly? It may be easiest - and best for article size - to maintain one long chart rather than per-year charts. (For Division 2, the list would be rather long though, considering that for 2013-14, membership was simply all teams ranked 41-100, rather than simply playoff-eligible. Perhaps two charts? One for the 2013-14 era, and another for 2015 to the present, to delineate this difference?) Echoedmyron (talk) 13:47, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Your idea of one list for 2013-14 and another for 2015 to present for D2 makes sense, but yes I wasn't thinking of a chart per year as I think it would get unwieldy and (particularly for D1) repetitive. Warofdreams talk 13:57, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good. Actually, the more I think about it, even for D2, it may be best to use one big chart - D1 doesn't require separate charts, and it may be best to keep it consistent across the two pages. A series of numbered notes can define membership - one noting eligible teams declining Playoffs invitations, one noting membership of 2013/2014 did not mean Playoffs necessarily, another noting teams that have since folded (if any), specific notes for teams that have since merged with others, etc. Basically one big chart means teams only have to be listed once in the Past members section. Echoedmyron (talk) 14:06, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Also, thinking of removing the "left division" date column as that's up in the air depending on membership definition, and also removing the "destiny" section, as after the full three division system was dropped teams didn't really go anywhere, they just stopped being in a particular division if they no longer qualified.Echoedmyron (talk) 14:09, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Great, I think this will work well. I agree no need for "left division" date as it will be clear from the columns when they participated, and destiny is probably also not needed - I guess one option would be to list "D1" or "D2" in the columns where leagues participated in the other division, and just leaving it blank for years when they weren't in either. Warofdreams talk 14:20, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

That works too. I can always start with including that column, and if it seems like the majority don't have an entry it can always be pulled later. Echoedmyron (talk) 14:38, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

I have updated tables in both this article and at Women's Flat Track Derby Association Division 2 as discussed. I changed "destiny" to "current status", and have added notes where relevant. For lower-ranked teams I have simply noted "out of Playoffs". Cleaned up the body text a bit in each article. I did not add a citation for every year for every team in every table as the sources for inclusion are noted in the body of each article. (updated the archived PDF of the initial Divisional assignments from the 2013 season.) Will tackle the Division 3 article and chart at a later date - although that one may simply be one crazy long chart as Division 3 is not currently in use, so it can merely contain members from 2013 and 2014. Echoedmyron (talk) 21:25, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

That looks great, really nice and clear and should be sustainable over the next few years - good work! Warofdreams talk 23:35, 24 August 2017 (UTC)