Talk:Wonder Woman/Archive 4

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5

Comics Buyer's Guide List - Noteworthy/Relevant?

That list might have proper citation, but I don't see why its something that needs to be included on this page.--HalfElfDragon (talk) 22:36, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Storylines/Fictional character biography

The storylines should change to the heading fictional character biography per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Comics under article structure section titles96.238.36.3 (talk) 17:50, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

From that same source, I quote: "Please feel free to create your own section headings, bearing in mind..." My point being that this section is specifically discussing the changes in storyline over specific - and well defined - Comic ages, not specifically the character's biography. Certain long standing characters do have multiple fictional biographies, and the section name addresses that. We are not required to pick and choose from a pre-defined list. What works for one fictional character does not necessarily work for others. It has been peacefully describing the content of this section for nearly two years. Scr★pIronIV 21:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Not when most other articles have fictional character biography96.238.36.3 (talk) 21:29, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Did you actually read what I wrote? It does work for most, but not all. Or is this another case of you don't feel like listening? Scr★pIronIV 21:50, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Did you read what I wrote? 96.238.36.3 (talk) 09:16, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Collected Editions

I'm working to update the collected editions into a more comprehensive and organized form. I'll post what I've done when I finish, but it'll take a while. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemesisoverride (talk • contribs) 19:33, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Added. If anything is missing, feel free to update. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemesisoverride (talk • contribs) 19:23, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

the 1972 hardcover published by Steinem is notably missing, it was all vintage Marston/Peters material, some of it not reprinted elsewhere since, in full colour on good paper at a time when there really weren't any other collections of superhero comics at all ... there is also the recent Wonder Woman: The War Years 1941-1945 put out by Roy Thomas, also all vintage Marston/Peters material ... and Wonder Woman: The Complete Newspaper Comics compiling the shortlived daily newspaper strip
J Edward Malone (talk) 14:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

DC (Comics) Rebirth

From time to time, editors have changed the subsection title "DC Comics rebirth" to "DC Comics Rebirth". I've been reverting these changes because, according to MOS:SECTIONS, section titles should be in sentence case. However, if "DC Comics Rebirth" is the title of a line of comics then "DC Comics Rebirth" is correct as the section title.

After a brief Google search I found that "DC Rebirth" is the title of a recent relaunch of several DC comics, and there is a Wikipedia article, so I edited Wonder Woman to change the section title to "DC Rebirth" and to reference the article. I'm confused by something, though. According to the Wikipedia article, DC Rebirth was started in 2016, but the timeline in Wonder Woman suggests that it happened prior to 2012. Am I mixing up two different rebirths? Or should "DC Rebirth" be moved so that it comes after "Earth 2"? Strawberry4Ever (talk) 15:14, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

What's now the "DC Rebirth" section was added in 2016, so apparently it's the same rebirth. Originally "DC Comics Rebirth" was added as a level 3 section title followed immediately by "Earth 2" as a level 4 subsection, which I'm guessing is how the chronology became confused. I've moved "DC Rebirth" to appear after "Earth 2" and added a brief explanation. I also added a {{citation needed}} tag. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 17:45, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Hermes vs. Mercury

In Archive 3 you will find my notes regarding Hermes and Mercury.

Wonder Woman was "faster than Mercury" in all those early comics, not "faster than Hermes."

The current "Wonder Woman" article as of this writing (6 September 2016 at 22:55 Philippine Standard Time) was last modified on 5 September 2016 at 06:27 and still states "faster than Hermes" instead of "faster than Mercury" and cites Wonder Woman #105.

In #105, Mercury appears on page 2, panel 5. He is called "Fleet Mercury" by no less than the Queen of Olympus herself.

It is sad that this error is found in the book DC Comics Encyclopedia: Superhero Handbook by Wikipedians.

I did not bother to edit Hermes this time since it is quite tiring to do so. I did in 2009 and 2010, yet the error still found its way into the superhero handbook.Trevz (talk) 14:56, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

UN Ambassador controversy

Every mainstream news report that I have found (CNN, BBC, The Guardian, etc) reports that this appointment has been met with some protests, but so far no mention of them in Wikipedia's current text (unless the reader checks the CNN article name, where it's described as a controversial move).Tlhslobus (talk) 06:53, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree. Protest should be mentioned. Protests from body-image issues, plus WW being dressed in U.S. American flag - which was a very different story in the 1940ies fighting Nazi-Germany, but today can also perceived as U.S. imperialism of the UN as mentioned in some of the protests. --Satu Katja (talk) 09:52, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
It should probably be mentioned Cultural impact of Wonder Woman.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 10:43, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Image

I am replacing the main image with one by Alex Ross. This newer image is of a higher quality and it shows the entire anterior aspect of the outfit. JosephSpiral (talk) 12:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Great Hera...that is fantastic. Much approval!--Mark Miller (talk) 05:53, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

I noticed this, DC must be going for a 1940s theme to their Wonder Woman art...she looks exactly like Jennifer Jones, a movie actor from that time.2602:30A:2C52:C170:FC52:26DF:B138:6D03 (talk) 13:41, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

I had to replace this image as it fails our fair use policies and never had a fair use rational placed.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:51, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

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Immaculate Conception?

Hi folks - The paragraph about Diana's creation starts "Wonder Woman's origin story relates that she was sculpted from clay by her mother", and "sculpted from clay" is linked to Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and involved the usual human reproductive process (though with certain conditions as created by God). Perhaps the editor was thinking of virgin birth, whereby a woman would become pregnant without sexual contact, usually by some supernatural influence. (The closest parallel to traditional mythology would probably be the creation of Galatea by Pygmalion.) I'm not invested in the Wonder Woman 'verse myself, but if anyone else wants to pursue changing the link, I support it. Her Pegship (talk) 18:07, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Infobox Image

Please note that the infobox image (File:Wonder_Woman.jpg) is from Ross' website and personal collection; it is not the image used in the cited comic. (File:Wonder_Woman.png) is from the cited source (Justice #5), as it does not have Ross' signature and the colors truer to the characters' costume design. Regardless, I believe (File:Wonder_Woman.png) should be used for the infobox since the colors are more robust. Editors, please relate your thoughts on which of these two images are better suited for the infobox image. DrRC (talk) 21:08, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

It is the original image, I took it directly from the source, removing the text.--(talk) 21:23, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
TriiipleThreat, that's interesting because I did the same, actually removing the text myself. Can you provide a link to your source? DrRC (talk) 21:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I'll upload a link tomorrow.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:53, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
No problem, TriiipleThreat. However, don't you think Wonder Woman.png has a better color correction? That's the reason I'm inclined to use that over Wonder Woman.jpg. The latter image has a faded contrast and muted colors. It looks like a lower quality scan and is not as robust in color as Wonder Woman.png. DrRC (talk) 21:56, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Actually, I think the opposite. The colors of the .jpg are more brilliant, the .png look muted to me.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 22:10, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Ok, but I do disagree, as the .jpg version looks faded and muted, and it is not as brilliant in color as the .png version. DrRC (talk) 22:57, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Editors, please see both the .png version, File:Wonder_Woman.png, and the .jpg version, File:Wonder_Woman.jpg. Your opinions on which of these two images is better suited for the infobox is greatly appreciated. DrRC (talk) 22:59, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Honestly, I like them both and either would work as far as I'm concerned. I will say that the .png file seems a bit red on her legs, whereas the jpg has more natural flesh tones. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I have no knowledge of the comics or provenance of the pictures, but I do prefer File:Wonder Woman.jpg; the .png version looks like she has a sunburn. FWIW Her Pegship (talk) 01:14, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I feel like the .jpg has more natural skin color and better depth in the hair.★Trekker (talk) 07:14, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

@DrRC: Here is the original.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 12:26, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I appreciate the editors for expressing their opinions. I can see how the .png version Wonder Woman looks like she has a sunburn, as was pointed out above. Thanks, TriiipleThreat for providing the link. I believe the scan I had was not true to the original source with its colors. The .png version is surely the better one to use for the infobox. DrRC (talk) 18:54, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Superhero/Superheroine

A couple IP editors have changed the lede to use the word "Superheroine". Although the word "superhero" is non-gender specific, I can see where some people would want to make the change. However, since they are IP editors, I thought I'd throw it up here for comment rather than reverting it again. Thoughts? Ckruschke (talk) 17:18, 21 June 2017 (UTC)Ckruschke

Powers and Abilities

Should accelerated healing be added to Wonder Woman's powers and abilities? This is something you see time and time again in the comics (either because she drinks from the fountain of youth, or Demeter has blessed her with the gift), and even in the film, where she has superhuman healing akin to Wolverine or Deadpool, because she heals almost instantly from a gunshot wound. It's just so commonplace throughout the canon to see her heal rapidly that it seems worth noting. Brandon1978 (talk) 04:11, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi - I have reverted many additions to the powers and abilities section because the editors had no source for the edits or seemed to just be adding or subtracting at random. This type of original research is expressly forbidden. So if you have an official source that says she has superhuman healing, go ahead and make the change and add the citation. Ckruschke (talk) 19:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC)Ckruschke

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Lead too big

need to rearange lead. too much trivia and detailed info. DoubleChine (talk) 17:51, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

The Sanger reference is hardly trivia, and it's the only place in the article it's mentioned. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:32, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

wonder — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1704:4B3:8509:2C83:C48D:C410 (talk) 02:37, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Edit warring over infobox image

Scarecroe (talk · contribs) boldly changed the infobox image to File:Wonder Woman DC Comics.png without discussion and was subsequently reverted. At this point, per WP:BRD he should have started a dialogue to seek consensus if he still desired the change. Instead, he re-reverted two more times. Scarecroe‘s behavior aside, the image in question fails MOS:COMICS#BOXIMAGE as it is not the most “universally recognized” version of the character and is an example of WP:RECENTISM.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:29, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

90s - 2010

The publication history summary jumps really quickly from post crisis, mostly focused on Perez, to 2010 as if there were no significant events in 20 years or so, the 2000's jumps straight to 2010.

There was so much resorting of the entire DC Universe in the time reverting back a multiverse from the posts crisis reality and we have it presenting like nothing changed much from 85 with one of DC's biggest characters. Czarnibog (talk) 09:00, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png

NO ACTION
Concensus to keep File:Wonder Woman.jpg as the infobox image

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'm trying to understand why File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png was removed.

The preceding discussion turned into a situation I fear has become a case of mild gatekeeping and I think it best to approach with WP:DR rather than allow for any one person to champion their favorite based on personal preference.

That said, File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png meets all the criteria required by User:TriiipleThreat. The edit summary for File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png's removal claims the change violates Wikipedia:Recentism, but I don't see how that applies here and not to File:Supermanflying.png and File:Batman (circa 2016).png, nor do I see why it's a problem in general. The Wonder Woman article does not violate Wikipedia:Recentism in relation to File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png.

On the other hand, File:Wonder Woman.jpg represents an example of WP:DATED, and should be updated. File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png depicts the topic as the most commonly seen version of the character across several forms of media (comics, live action, animation, gaming, etc) over the course of several years and it meets all the criteria of MOS:COMICS#BOXIMAGE.

Several options have now been offered to replace File:Wonder Woman.jpg in violation of WP:DATED, but I'm having trouble understanding why it's been so hard to change. Please advise. —scarecroe (talk) 13:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

What is the problem with the current image? It is not a violation of DATED. It is the character in a costume she's worn for the majority of her existence and has been present in the article for years with no problem. See WP:STABLE. JOEBRO64 13:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
File:Wonder Woman.jpg violates WP:DATED because it represents a specific look only during a short period of time in the character's 79 year history. Compare with File:Batman (circa 2016).png. —scarecroe (talk) 14:13, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
No, that would be File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png. File:Wonder Woman.jpg is more in line with the character’s overall history. Also WP:OTHERSTUFF is not a valid argument.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 17:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
File:Wonder Woman.jpg represents the article topic during a very short and dated period in the character's history. It's fine to include within the body of the text, but should not represent the article as a whole. —scarecroe (talk) 22:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
That is flatly incorrect. As you can see here, WW has incorporated some form of the shorts for most of her history. She briefly wore culottes in the beginning and the pteruges as depicted in File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png were not introduced until 2016.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 23:50, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
That's a really good guide, thank you for the link. As you can see, none of them are really like File:Wonder Woman.jpg at all. It's kind of interesting that you point it out though, because the one that comes closest is the illustration from 1972 — 48 years ago — and it didn't last very long. I'm afraid there's really no "long-term, historical view" for this character like there are with other superheroes. —scarecroe (talk) 17:06, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm afraid there's really no "long-term, historical view" for this character... There are threads of commonality that run through most of her history; shorts, boots, bracers, tiara, etc. File:Wonder Woman.jpg has more of these commonalities than File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
shorts, boots, bracers, tiara, etc are all present in File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png. —scarecroe (talk) 11:56, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
No, she is very clearly wearing pteruges, not shorts in File:Wonder Woman Year One 2016.png. It is also missing the “star-spangled” pattern, that runs through most of her history.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 12:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
The pteruges are really just flair over the shorts. Stars included. —scarecroe (talk) 17:00, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
No, you are really grasping here. They are quite different and that's not exactly what I would call "spangled". If you are not going to discuss in good faith, then there's no point in continuing this conversation.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't really appreciate the personal attacks. —scarecroe (talk) 15:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

It wasn't a personal attack, —scarecroe. "Grasping at straws", in case you are unfamiliar with the term, means your argument is very weak - which it is. This is a comment about your argument - not you - there's a difference. That being said, I agree with TriiipleThreat that if good faith discussion can't happen, then the Talk Thread should end. Ckruschke (talk) 19:00, 17 July 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke

Thank you for joining the discussion, Ckruschke. —scarecroe (talk) 14:14, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

The consensus is clear enough, but I figured I would add my two-cents for good measure - WP:RECENT definitely comes into play here. Wonder Woman has been around since the 1940s, most of her costumes in that time (including even The New 52) have been some variation on the legless no-cape design, and the design that scarecroe wants to change it to did not exist before 2016, with the closest precedent being the movie design from 2015. We do not change the infobox every time a character gets a new costume for a number of reasons:

  1. Comic book characters almost always go back to their classic outfit at some point, and retcons, shake-ups, redesigns, etc, are usually temporary and nothing out of the ordinary. How long did the "daughter of Zeus" retcon or trunkless Batman and Superman last? Less than a decade for sure.
  2. It adds undo weight to the character's most recent comic book appearances and is generally very crufty considering the timelessness of these characters.
  3. Most of these characters are multi-media entities with multiple different versions existing at once, so undo weight once again comes into play. The Nora Fries retcon from the New 52 lasted from 2011 or 2012 to around 2017, and it had (quite literally) zero affect on any of the character's multi-media appearances or the public perception of Nora Fries as Mr. Freeze's wife in general. Even the comic accurate Batman: Arkham games (2011-2015) were like "Imma pretend I didn't see that".

Hence, the infobox image should always be some variation of whatever a character's most iconic/recognisable look is. Darkknight2149 22:23, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for weighing in, Darkknight2149. The opinion piece on WP:FANCRUFT was illuminating; I feared that's where a lot of this conversation had been going. I understand the concerns, I just think it's a shame that the main image on Wonder Woman is so dated while the ones found on Superman and Batman are so modern. —scarecroe (talk) 12:28, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Modernity is overblown, —scarecroe. I think the picture on this page is actually better than the one on Superman/Batman. However, I appreciate a fan wanting to improve the page. Ckruschke (talk) 17:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke
It's the costume she wore until 2014 and will probably be wearing again within the next several years. I'm not sure how that's not "modern". Darkknight2149 20:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed merge with Diana Prince

No need to have another page for alias. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 14:44, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Why does Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent not have their own articles? --Samantha Ireland (talk) 22:15, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
My point exactly. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:28, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Clark Kent does have his own article... but Diana Prince isnt really used very much in the comics so it doesnt really need one. Spanneraol (talk) 22:30, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Diana may not be used much now, but she was in the past. The article seems long enough that, unless there's a lot of duplication, merging would make the Wonder Woman article daunting and unfocused. HalJor (talk) 07:07, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Revisit

I think this may need to be revisited due to Clark Kent being merged IMO. Jhenderson 777 17:44, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Yep. All opposes were based on that reason. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Merge: Redirect Diana Prince to Wonder Woman#Diana Prince as is done for Clark Kent redirecting to Superman#Clark Kent because they are still the same main character and all other characters under the Wonder Woman name already have their own articles. Plus, most of the information on Diana Prince can be covered on the Wonder Woman page. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Major Problems with Sources

Most of the descriptions of her powers do not cite to actual comic books, i.e. the authorities on what she can do. Over and over again, they cite to secondary sources that are, in themselves, merely interpretations and editorializing on her abilities. Those sources are inadequate and no better than what any reader off the street might say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C3:4001:9220:9909:53FF:C553:6B69 (talk) 23:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Clay statue origin

I added that it was a Bronze age development in her story, but I do not know where it first appeared. It is in the Perez version in 1987, but is also in "The Origins of the Superfriends" episode of Challenge of the Superfriends (if I'm wrong about this, it was definitely a later episode of Super Friends but before 1987); however, it is not in the origin stories in All Star Comics #8 (in which "the Princess" assumes the name Diana at the end, clearly not her given name, although that was retconned immediately), Sensation Comics #1, or Wonder Woman #98, the Silver Age relaunch origin. I'm about halfway through my DVD collection of the live-action series, which I haven't seen since I was a kid, but it's not in the first season opener or the second season opener, and I doubt it's in it at all. I do not know where it first appeared. I would guess some time after issue #204, when the depowered "Diana Prince" stories ended. Wonder Woman issues of this period can be had cheaply but not easily. Dealers tell me that such issues don't stay in stock long even though they don't command very high prices.--Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 18:52, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

This article attributes the clay statue origin story to the writing team of Greg Potter, George Pérez, and Len Wein. I am not aware of previous versions of this origin story. Dimadick (talk) 09:47, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Invisible plane into Wonder Woman

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
To not merge on the grounds of independent notability; maintain summary form. Klbrain (talk) 20:11, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

This is more of a redirect proposal because I feel Wonder Woman#Invisible Plane is completely sufficient to cover the topic. There's really nothing to merge into this article. The current article is just Fandom material, listing every media appearance and way too much plot info. TTN (talk) 21:29, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

  • Oppose: I feel it is a notable topic despite the cruft. Jhenderson 777 19:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Notable topic, just trim away the cruft. From a cursory search, plenty of ok sources that talk about it. Haleth (talk) 13:05, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Addendum: I should also point out that the prose for the main Wonder Woman article is at 85,114 characters, which is edging towards 100,000 characters and well above the suggested article size according to the WP:Split recommendation. Haleth (talk) 13:24, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose: The invisible plane is a well-known artifact, like the Batmobile. Merging would not serve any useful purpose. — Toughpigs (talk) 13:39, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support The article lacks sources, and has only two inline citations. Insufficient notability. Dimadick (talk) 21:34, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Support: The Invisible plane article is significantly under sourced and doesn't appear to use much information beneficial to the reader other than its in-universe history in the comic books and loads of other media appearances. The article doesn't even use the proper capitalization of "plane", which should be "Invisible Plane". I feel it is best to redirect both "Invisible plane" and "Invisible Plane" to Wonder Woman#Invisible Plane and expand off of that section there. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose The page is predominantly fancruft and the like. I would support a large-scale haircut of that page, but not a merger. Ckruschke (talk) 15:57, 4 November 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke
  • Oppose per Haleth and Toughpigs. Also note that just because Fandom.com exist, doesn't mean topics like this don't deserve a place in Wikipedia. Enjoyer of World(bother me...) 03:24, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose based just on size alone. While the "Invisible Plane" page is just 16.5kB, this page is a hefty 194kB, which means this article needs some trimming, perhaps even something split off, but certainly nothing more added, if it can be helped. - wolf 05:01, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support The article is pure, unsourced fan cruft, so very little content would actually merge over. This is an encyclopedia, not a fan site. I am afraid that AfD would be the alternative and the little sourced material there is would be lost. GenQuest "scribble" 01:35, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: Here is sources I dug up! Cheers! Hope they help!
refs

Jhenderson 777 14:35, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Jhenderson777: Why dump all these here? If they're not in the article, add them. They serve absolutely no purpose here. - wolf 23:49, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Just so you ask that question. You’re welcome! In all seriousness, It is pretty obvious though. It is an attempt at proving the topics notability. I guess that is an AFD thing though. Jhenderson 777 01:18, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above. —scarecroe (talk) 12:13, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose This article is big enough already Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 17:34, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The plane is notable enough for it's own article though someone really needs to rename it to Invisible Plane with the proper capitalization. Spanneraol (talk) 17:43, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose - For the reasons stated above. The article is pretty lengthy and the plane itself seems notable enough to warrant its own page. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 07:08, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Section 4 (Abilities) reorganization?

I was about to undertake this myself, but because it would be a pretty significant restructuring of a major section on a major article, I thought I would put out feelers on this before daring to do it myself. I am the editor who has made some recent pretty substantive contributions about the history of Wonder Woman's costume, and in adding that and figuring out how it should be included there, I came to perceive that it would be better to reorganize section 4 (Abilities) and have 3 subsections instead of 2. I would propose those 3 subsections as: 4.1 - "Powers and Training", 4.2 - "Technology", and 4.3 - "Costume". I think that the sequential ordering of those subsections could also have my proposals for 4.2 and 4.3 transposed.

I also thought that some of the material in this section, such as "bracelets" should be included under a "costume" subheading, rather than a "technology" subheading.

What does everybody else think? QuakerIlK (talk) 08:34, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Uncited material in need of citations

I am moving the following uncited material here until it can be properly supported with inline citations of reliable, secondary sources, per WP:V, WP:CS, WP:IRS, WP:PSTS, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, et al. This diff shows where it was in the article. Nightscream (talk) 23:44, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Publication history

Main article: Publication history of Wonder Woman

Creation

Wonder Woman often ended up in chains before inevitably breaking free. This not only represented Marston's affinity for bondage, but women's subjugation, which he roundly rejected. However, not everything about his creation was explicitly explained in any one source, which caused confusion among writers and fans for many years.

Bronze Age

With sales of the title continuing to decline in 1985 (despite an unpublished revamp that was solicited), the series was canceled and ended in issue #329 (February 1986) written by Gerry Conway, depicting Steve Trevor's marriage to Wonder Woman.

The 2985 crossover storyline Crisis on Infinite Earths was designed and written with the purpose of streamlining most of DC's characters into one more-focused continuity and reinventing them for a new era. Thus, Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor were declared to come from the Earth-Two dimension, and along with all of their exploits, were erased from history, so that a new Wonder Woman character, story and timeline could take priority.

21st century

2010s

Starting from Issue 26, the series returned to a regular storyline between each issue.

Characterization

Diana Prince

The DC Rebirth universe has not featured the Diana Prince identity as much in favor of Wonder Woman going by Diana of Themyscira in her downtime.

Personality

Princess Diana commands respect both as Wonder Woman and Diana Prince; her epithetical title – The Amazon Princess – illustrates the dichotomy of her character. She is a powerful, strong-willed character who does not back down from a fight or a challenge. Yet, she is a diplomat who strongly "favors the pen", and a lover of peace who would never seek to fight or escalate a conflict. She's simultaneously both the most fierce and most nurturing member of the Justice League; and her political connections as a United Nations Honorary Ambassador and the ambassador of a warrior nation makes her an invaluable addition to the team. With her powerful abilities, centuries of training and experience at handling threats that range from petty crime to threats that are of a magical or supernatural nature, Diana is capable of competing with nearly any hero or villain in DC.

Others

However, Hippolyta eventually grew to enjoy the freedom and adventure the title came with. Whereas Diana used the Lasso of Truth as her primary weapon, Hippolyta favored a broad sword.

Artemis of Bana-Mighdall briefly served as Wonder Woman during Hippolyta's trials for a new Wonder Woman. Orana, a character similar to Artemis, defeated Diana in a new contest and became Wonder Woman in pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths continuity. Orana was killed during her first mission. Others who have donned the Wonder Woman persona include Nubia, Cassandra Sandsmark, and Donna Troy.

Fictional character biography

20th century

Silver Age

During this period, Samuel R. Delany took over scripting duties with issue #202. Delany was initially supposed to write a six-issue story arc, which would culminate in a battle over an abortion clinic, but Delany was removed reportedly due to criticism from Gloria Steinem, who, not knowing the content of the issues Delany was writing, was upset that Wonder Woman had lost her powers and was no longer wearing her traditional costume.[citation needed]

Modern Age

Crisis on Infinite Earths

Instead, Perez created Julia and Vanessa Kapatelis, a Greek-American scholar and her teenage daughter whom Diana would live with when she was in Man's world and would be major supporting characters in the series for years.

War of the Gods

Circe would later return by unknown means.

Diana once again became Wonder Woman, a request made by Artemis in her last seconds. Artemis would later return as Requiem. Prior to Artemis' death, Hippolyta would admit to her daughter about her own part in Artemis' death, which strained their relationship as Diana was unable to forgive her mother for sending another Amazon to her death knowingly for the sake of saving her own daughter.

21st century

The New 52

This man is later revealed to be Zeus' first son, known only as First Born, who seeks to rule over Olympus and the rest of the world, and take Diana as his bride.[volume & issue needed]

DC Rebirth

At the same time, she finds the truth behind her origin and history is now cluttered, as she remembers two versions: the pre-Flashpoint one, and the New 52 rendition. She cannot locate Themiscyra or her fellow Amazons and the Lasso of Truth no longer works for her.[citation needed]

The "Year One" storyline retells Diana's origin growing up on Themyscira. She lives an idyllic life and harbors interest for the outside world, and the first connection to it comes in the form of Steve Trevor, who crashes on the island and is the sole survivor. A contest is held to determine which Amazon is the best candidate to take Steve home, with Diana volunteering despite knowing the cost to leave the island is to never return. Diana wins the contest and departs with Steve. Once arriving in America, Diana is taken into custody by the government to discern her origins. She meets Etta Candy and Barbara Ann Minerva along the way. While incarcerated, Diana is visited by the gods in animal form and they bestow upon her powers of strength, speed, agility, durability, and flight. She discovers Ares, the god of war, is working to destroy humanity. Accepting her new role in Man's World, Diana, with the help of the gods in animal form, subdues Ares with the lasso. Now called Wonder Woman, Diana becomes one of the world's greatest heroes.[citation needed]

Cheetah agrees to help in exchange for Diana aiding her in killing the god Urzkartaga and ending Minerva's curse. The pair battle their way through Urzkartaga's minions, the Bouda, and defeat Andres Cadulo, a worshiper of Urzkartaga that planned to sacrifice Steve Trevor to the plant god. Once reverted to her human form, Minerva agreed to help Wonder Woman find her way back to Paradise Island. During this time, Wonder Woman reconnects with Steve. Minerva eventually realizes Paradise Island is an embodiment of emotion instead of a physical place, so Wonder Woman and Steve head out to find the island. They succeed and Wonder Woman is greeted by her mother and sisters, though Steve senses something is wrong. Wonder Woman comes to realize nothing is as she remembers and, upon using the Lasso of Truth, discovers everything she thought she knew was a lie: she never really returned to Themyscira after departing with Steve years earlier. The revelation shatters Diana's mind and she is left nearly insane. Veronica Cale, a businesswoman who has been desiring to find Themyscira and the leader of Godwatch, sends a military group called Poison after her, but Diana's state has left her vulnerable and oblivious to the danger she and Steve are in. Steve wards them off long enough for them to be rescued, and reluctantly places Diana in a mental hospital so she can get help. While there, she comes to grasp the reality she thought she knew was false, eventually coming out of her stupor and able to rejoin the others in tracking down Veronica Cale, who is trying to find Themyscira.[citation needed]

Abilities

Pre-Crisis

She was able to heal faster than a normal human being due to her birthright consumption of water from Paradise Island's Fountain of Eternal Youth.[citation needed]

These powers were changed after the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Post-Crisis

Due to her divine origins, Diana can resist many forms of magical manipulation.[citation needed]

DC Rebirth

Following the 3026 Rebirth retcon, the "Year One" storyline explains that while put in a cell after coming to Man's World, Diana was visited by the Greek gods in animal form. Each gave her powers that would reveal themselves when she needed them to. She first displays strength when she accidentally rips the bars off her cell door when visited by Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, and Barbara Ann Minerva. Later on a trip to the mall, she discovers super speed, great durability, and the power of flight while fighting off a terrorist attack.[citation needed]

Wonder Woman is immortal and does not age beyond her prime.[citation needed]

Weapons and other abilities

Diana is a scientist and physician, in addition to her athleticism. She has an arsenal of powerful god-forged weapons at her disposal, chief of which are her indestructible bracelets and the Lasso of Truth.[citation needed]

Costume and armor

Wonder Woman's outfit has varied over time, although almost all of her outfit incarnations have retained some form of red chestplate, blue subligaculum, golden tiara, bracelets, and her signature five-pointed star symbols. When Wonder Woman was first introduced, she wore a heavily patriotic skirt and red top which incorporated an American eagle and elements of the United States flag, reflecting the comic's origins during World War II.[citation needed]

Later artists introduced what would become Wonder Woman's classic ensemble, adding an armored plate to her top whose design recalls a letter W and revealing blue short shorts, whose precise length varied from artist to artist. Other artists have experimented with different looks for Wonder Woman over the years, including an all-white mod jumpsuit, a biker outfit, a variation of her mainstream depiction featuring leather pants and a jacket, and a number of armoured battlesuits. Contemporary artists have attempted to emphasise Wonder Woman's traditional outfit as a red armored top with a blue gladiator skirt.[citation needed]

Golden Age outfit

Wonder Woman's outfit design was originally rooted in American symbolism and iconography, which included her signature star symbols, a golden eagle on her chest, crimson red bustier, white belt, and a dark blue star spangled skirt/culotte.[citation needed]

She also had a pair of red glowing magnetic earrings which allowed her to receive messages from Queen Desira of the planet Venus.[citation needed]

Post-Crisis outfit

It was later retconned by Gail Simone that Wonder Woman's outfit design had Amazonian roots. During a flashback in Vol. 3, Hippolyta is shown issuing orders to have a garment created for Diana, taking inspiration from the skies on the night Diana was born; a red hunter's moon and a field of stars against deep blue, and the eagle breastplate being a symbol of Athena's avian representations.[volume & issue needed]

The New 52 outfit

After the events of the 2015 storyline "Convergence", Diana gets a new armored suit with the classic armor and tiara returning.[volume & issue needed]

DC Universe outfit

Following the 2016 DC Rebirth continuity relaunch, Wonder Woman's outfit was redesigned to resemble the one worn in the film Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. This outfit is a red bustier with a gold eagle, a blue leather skirt with gold edges with two stars, and knee-high red boots with gold knee guards and accents. Her tiara once again is gold with a red star. She occasionally wears a red cape with a gold clasp and edges.[volume & issue needed] She continues to wear this updated outfit in DC Universe, the continuity established after Rebirth.[citation needed]

Wonder Woman (2017 film) outfit

This corresponds to the original intent by William Moulton Marston, who wanted his character to be alluringly feminine.[citation needed]

Invisible Plane

The Invisible Plane was originally a necessity because Wonder Woman could not fly until the Crisis on Infinite Earths rewrote the character's history. She grew increasingly powerful during and after the Silver Age, acquiring the power to ride wind currents and imitate flight over short distances.[citation needed]

Created by Diana herself, the Invisible Plane appeared in the earliest comic stories, including All-Star Comics #8, where it is shown as being able to fly at over 2,000 mph (3,200 km/h) and to send out rainbow rays that penetrate the mist around Paradise Island, as well as landing stealthily and having a built-in radio. Wonder Woman is seen storing the plane in a barn at an abandoned farm near Washington, D.C., where she goes as Lt. Prince and changes clothes in some of the earliest tales. In a story published shortly after, the plane flies at 40 miles (64 km) a second.[citation needed]

The plane proved a good friend, eager to help his "mistress" and her loved ones in any way possible. It got along especially well with Steve Trevor.[citation needed]

Lasso of Truth

Diana wields the Lasso with great precision and accuracy and can use it as a whip or noose.[citation needed]

Other items

After the storyline Crisis on Infinite Earths, the creation of the Purple Ray was attributed to the Baroness Paula von Gunther.[volume & issue needed]

Cultural impact

Critical reception and legacy

Although created to be a positive role-model and a strong female character for girls and boys, Wonder Woman has had to deal with the misogyny that was commonplace in comic book industry for decades. For example, Wonder Woman was a founding member of the Justice Society of America. This roster included the original Flash and Green Lantern. Wonder Woman was an experienced leader and easily the most powerful of them all, yet was rendered a secretary. This would also be accompanied with her losing her powers or getting captured on most Justice League adventures. During the 1950s and 1960s, comic writers regularly made Wonder Woman lovesick over Steve Trevor, a Major in the United States Army. Stories frequently featured Wonder Woman hoping or imagining what it would be like to marry Steve Trevor.

Feminist icon

"William Marston intended her to be a feminist character, showing young boys the illimitable possibilities of a woman who could be considered just as strong as the famed Superman." Gladys L. Knight explains the impact and influences that superheroes have on us in society ranging from the 1870s until the present day.

Sexual icon

Paquette confirmed that he and Morrison would be bringing back the bondage theme that was popular in Wonder Woman comics during the 1940s. However, he stated that Morrison was looking for a way to not only modernize it, but to use the bondage theme as a form of female empowerment. Paquette acknowledged that Wonder Woman has become more than just a beloved character, she is a symbol for feminism. "By bringing in sex and, yes, bondage, it reasserts [William Moulton Marston's core] idea that it is okay for women to have a healthy sexual appetite." Paquette elaborated more on this by pointing out the blatant double standards in comics when it comes to sex: "Could Wonder Woman really ever have a healthy and active sex life without it becoming political fodder for Fox News? And what of women and girls who want to be like her? Do we truly think they wouldn't be labeled sluts? I have my doubts."

Ref improve tag

@Nightscream:, you added the ref-improve tag before you removed uncited content. Is it still necessary? Inline cn tags would help other editors fill in refs where you see gaps, but an article-level tag on on article that already has over 200 refs is kind of daunting to address. Schazjmd (talk) 17:49, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

I added the refimprove tag because there is still uncited material in the article. Nightscream (talk) 16:50, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alec Steck03.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Karliw.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

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