Template:Did you know nominations/Latin Grammy Award for Best Short Form Music Video

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 12:08, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Latin Grammy Award for Best Short Form Music Video, Jason Archer and Paul Beck, Agustín Alberdi, Gabriel Coss, Luis Miguel Leal, Israel Lugo, Jorge Rodríguez (director), Alejandro Santiago Ciena[edit]

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Reviewed: Murder of Neta Sorek and Kristine Luken. Jaespinoza (talk) 08:57, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Created/expanded by Jaespinoza (talk). Self nom at 08:39, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Hook is long, uninteresting, badly formatted. It links to 8, count 'em, 8 different subjects?? Which one is the DYK even about? Rnickel (talk) 13:37, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
The DYK is about all of them, they were awarded the Latin Grammy for Short Form Music Video, so, instead of sending 7 different articles about directors earning the award (which also was 5X expanded) I opted for this form of presentation. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Multi-article hooks are encouraged in DYK, so this should be reviewed as such; the orange X was inappropriate under the circumstances. Need new reviewer. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:29, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment: BlueMoonset, the issue is, I don't think there's any way you can include so many articles and still have enough characters left to make a hook with any interest value whatsoever. A bunch of guys won some award... so what? I gave it the orange X because the guidelines specifically call for hooks that are interesting and short; I don't see how this nomination can ever achieve that-- it's 209 characters as it is, already over the firm 200 character max. Rnickel (talk) 05:36, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
  • We've been talking past each other; I'm sorry I didn't realize it sooner. Apparently you've never run across the special exception for multi-article hooks: WP:DYKSG, rule C3 specifically allows for up to 200 characters excluding all but one of the bolded article names from the hook count. My point on the orange X was that instead of asking for an ALT hook that had a bit more of interest, you just flunked the article, and that's not how DYK reviews should go if the issue is the hook, but you didn't realize there was an alternative. As there is one, possible solutions to add interest to the hook might be, for example, that all the people listed here are directors (the performers also won); adding something like "by directing artists such as three-time winners Calle 13" either after the initial "that" or immediately before the final "?". That would put the countable total at about 130 characters. Or mention that Gabriel Coss is the only one of these (or any other) directors to win twice.
I'm pretty sure that the reason the nomination has been languishing for nearly a month was the fact that it required someone who was willing to review eight articles at the same time. Big multi-hooks like this are a major task, and not many people are willing to take it on. (There's a seven-article hook that was submitted back on August 9.) BlueMoonset (talk) 06:14, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Please note that the Agustín Alberdi article currently has fewer than 1500 characters of prose and therefore it is too short to qualify for DYK. Please fix. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 03:06, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, the Alberdi article is a stub, and needs to formally not be a stub in order to qualify. This will also need to be rectified once the article has been expanded sufficiently. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Review  In progress.... --PFHLai (talk) 18:41, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Latin Grammy Award for Best Short Form Music Video: Pre-list prose long enough (1749 characters), expansion recent enough (began on Sep.3rd). No obvious concerns with reliability of sources, neutrality or BLP-related issues. Random googling of various sentences indicated no concerns related to copyright violations, close paraphrasing or plagiarism in the article. However, the 3rd paragraph has zero footnotes. Please fix. --PFHLai (talk) 19:10, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
About this, the information on the third paragraph comes from the list itself, and I checked other list like this one that are currently on Featured Status, and those lists do not have references in the last paragraph. Jaespinoza (talk) 21:27, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Alejandro Santiago Ciena: Article long enough (1766 characters), new enough (Sep.3rd). No obvious concerns with reliability of sources, neutrality or BLP-related issues. No lead -- Please make one, if possible. Random googling of various sentences indicated some concerns related to close paraphrasing in the article: can "...concept of the video, which also includes people disrobing and running in the nude through city streets as an expression of freedom...." be re-written? This shows up near-verbatim here. --PFHLai (talk) 19:29, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Fixed. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:09, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Jorge Rodríguez (director): Article long enough (2010 characters), new enough (Sep.3rd). No obvious concerns with neutrality or BLP-related issues, but I'm not sure if IMDb is reliable enough as a source. Random googling of various sentences indicated some concerns related to close paraphrasing in the article: can "...Americanization of Puerto Rican life by including images of women wearing blond wigs walking in front of rows of houses painted the same color, reminiscent of Levittown...." be re-written? This shows up near-verbatim here. --PFHLai (talk) 19:49, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Fixed. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:09, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Israel Lugo: Article long enough (2376 characters), new enough (Sep.3rd). No obvious concerns with reliability of sources, neutrality or BLP-related issues. Random googling of various sentences indicated some concerns related to close paraphrasing in the article: ..."finds Furtado frolicking with a male model in Puerto Rico" is copied verbatim from the MTV ref; I've just put that in quote marks, so it's okay. This one is good to go, but the rest of the articles in this compound nom still need to be checked. I have to get offline now. Anyone is welcome to takeover the review. --PFHLai (talk) 20:04, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Luis Miguel Leal: Article long enough (1750 characters), new enough (Sep.3rd). I don't know Spanish, but I see no obvious concerns with reliability of sources, or neutrality or BLP-related issues. Random googling of various sentences indicated no concerns related to copyright violations, close paraphrasing or plagiarism in the article. This one is good to go. --PFHLai (talk) 02:46, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Gabriel Coss: Article long enough (1968 characters), new enough (Sep.3rd). However, so many sentences in the article are verbatim duplication of the Israel Lugo article. I don't think there are two DYK credits for two so similar articles. Please considering merging them. If the two guys work together so much, maybe they should be in one article, with an extra paragraph on Lugo's acting. (See next item.) --PFHLai (talk) 03:21, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
I think they deserve a separate article, especially for the Israel Lugo acting career, but if a merging is necessary I'll do it. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:09, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Jason Archer and Paul Beck: Article long enough (2696 characters), new enough (Sep.3rd). No obvious concerns with reliability of sources, or neutrality or BLP-related issues. Random googling of various sentences indicated no concerns related to copyright violations, close paraphrasing or plagiarism in the article. I don't like the empty infobox, so I removed it. Otherwise, this one is good to go. --PFHLai (talk) 03:41, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Agustín Alberdi: this one is new enough (Sep.3rd), but has been shortened to under 1500 characters of prose. Disappointingly, there has been no improvement in prose length after a week since this problem was pointed out. No point reviewing this article any further. --PFHLai (talk) 03:45, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Fixed, the article was expanded in order to qualify for DYK. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:53, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Adequate size is now confirmed. and referencing is suitable. This page is OK. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
    • The hook: It is a bit long, but this is allowed for compound hooks like this. I like compound hooks in general, but I'm afraid this one doesn't work for me. It's more hooky when the compound hook is written to highlight the fact that multiple subjects had the same rare fate or unique feature. We have a new winner of the Grammy awards every year, so just listing a few of them won't make an interesting hook. The hook fact is verifiable and footnoted, so technically, it qualifies for DYK. Not a great hook, but I cannot think of a better one, so I have to "let this slide", so to speak. --PFHLai (talk) 04:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
    • Overall: Half of the candidate articles need fixing. This nom is not ready for MainPage. More QPQ is needed, anyway. BTW, I don't know Spanish, so I AGF'ed all those Spanish refs. Hope this is okay. --PFHLai (talk) 04:16, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
      • Thanks PFHLai for all your comments, I will apply all of them in order to have this on the DYK section, I waited almost a month to have it first reviewed, I will fix the articles today in order to complete the process. Jaespinoza (talk) 17:45, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
No progress. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:18, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
I ask for a reconsideration, because of being sick and not being able to enter Wikipedia and edit. I checked and corrected all the issues suggested, I do not want this work going to waste. Please. Thanks. Jaespinoza (talk) 21:27, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry to hear you've been sick. Review needed of the articles that had issues. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:34, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Basic requirement of our QPQ rules has not been fulfilled. Quid pro quo means a more-or-less equal exchange. There are eight (8) submissions here, and only one QPQ review. The nominator cannot be credited with 8 new articles in DYK without a fair exchange. Sorry, Poeticbent talk 16:59, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Nobody mentioned anything about it in the two-plus months time of this nomination, I can review the same amount, I have no problem with that. Next time I will think twice about sending more than one DYK at the same time, I wanted to create something original, if I had sent each nomination separately, they would have been already passed. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:54, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
This is a community effort. Roll up your sleeves and help others. Poeticbent talk 04:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I agree 100% that if you had done them separately, they'd have been passed long ago. I'd have passed several of them myself. Sending out a question now to those more experienced here than myself... is there any way that can be done at this point? I'd much rather see this broken up into several small interesting hooks, vs. the current gigantic boring hook. --Rnickel (talk) 20:05, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I am willing to break the sentence into smaller ones. I am reviewing more DYK nominations, such as:
  • Poeticbent is flat-out wrong about the requirement; QPQ has long since been fulfilled. While we prefer it when people review articles on a one-for-one basis, the actual rule, WP:DYKSG#H4, says "An article-for-article review is encouraged, but a hook-for-hook review is acceptable." Jaespinoza has met this requirement; if she wants to do more reviews she can, but the review here should proceed, and I am cancelling the improperly used X icon. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
  • DYK has been operating under H4—in particular, reviewing under H4—for many months. The last time a proposal was made in WT:DYK to tighten the rules so it was always article-for-article rather than allowing hook-for-hook, definitely subsequent to April of this year, the proposal failed. This nomination was submitted in good faith, and the QPQ review satisfied the rules as published. We can certainly have that discussion there on the supplementary guidelines talk page—though I think it's better held at WT:DYK to get a wider pool of commenters—but it should have no effect on matters here. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:51, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I might add that I have no problem with this multi, I think it will certainly be of interest to those with an interest in the topic, and it saves us having to run a similar hook seven or eight different times. Gatoclass (talk) 10:02, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Hook is OK it is just the QPQ is a failure. Causing so much work for the reviewers. Sure it was a big effort to write 8 articles, but to get it through DYK there should be 8 articles of review as well. We could reject it to put it out of it long wait, or just leave it till the last problem is solved. Ads it stands the only problem is Gabriel Coss, if this was removed from the credit, it would allow this DYK hook to proceed. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Given the rules, I still don't think it's right to belatedly declare that more QPQ is required. Here's a proposed ALT hook that pulls out Coss and adds in some suggested material from earlier in the thread:
I am not a lazy editor, I did my homework, seven reviews for seven articles, QPQ is fulfilled, but I think that this should set a precedent for future cases, because I did not know that had to be done this way. About the ALT1, it is alright by me. Thank you for all your comments. Jaespinoza (talk) 19:44, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Murder of Neta Sorek and Kristine Luken
Chad Netherland
Ship Shoal Light
Role ethics
Chang Kim Sung
Don't Stop the Party (Pitbull song)
God Bless America (charity album)
  • This is good to go with ALT1. QPQ is satisfied. I removed the DYKmake credit for Gabriel Cross so that the promoter won't put it by mistake, and struck the original hook. This should be good to go. Yazan (talk) 12:41, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
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