Template:Did you know nominations/Waniguchi
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:03, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
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Waniguchi
Waniguchi yōkai or strange apparition
... that the waniguchi gong is named after its resemblance to the mouth of a crocodilian (artist's impression pictured)?ref
- Reviewed: Petro Kilekwa (here)
Created by Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk). Self-nominated at 20:32, 5 September 2019 (UTC).
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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| Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 21:05, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Article is new enough (created Sep 5) and long enough (2701B). No copyvio detected. The hook is interesting and properly cited. The picture is excellent, and it's public domain and clear at low resolution. (I would suggest editing the image caption to make it clear what a yōkai is for people who are not familiar with it). AGF on the Japanese sources. QPQ is done. I have one quibble with the sourcing in the article. The article states "As denoted by its kanji, waniguchi literally means "crocodile mouth"". However, the two sources [1] [2] state that it means alligator mouth. Once this is resolved it should be good to go. Nice article.
- Hello, thanks for the review and the feedback; I have adjusted the caption as suggested (per Yōkai) and also the article, adding in alligator: I'm not sure how species-specific they were, and Crocodile says "the term is sometimes used even more loosely to include all extant members of the order Crocodilia, which includes the alligators..."; also the kanji link to wiktionary defines it as crocodile/alligator; however, as you say, the (US/American English-centric) sources do indeed use alligator, and there was/just about still is (critically endangered) a Chinese alligator, so...; thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 21:25, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, I admittedly missed the kanji link. Your edit clears things up. DYK approved. :) SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 21:29, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I came by to promote this, and tagged one word that didn't make sense to me. Also, why are you saying "crocodilian" instead of "crocodile" in the hook, as you do in the article? Yoninah (talk) 14:11, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Reviewer here - I assumed "brushed" was referring to calligraphy, but you're right that clarification would be helpful. SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 14:47, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, calligraphy, penned being instrumentally inaccurate; have replaced with “written” if that is clearer; wani isn’t always that species-specific: per the linked wiktionary definition, it’s something with ‘four legs like a turtle and a three-foot mouth with sharp teeth’. Crocodilia include crocs and gators so should cover all eventualities, thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 19:59, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- But the article says "crocodile", not "crocodilian". Per WP:DYK#Eligibility criteria 3. Cited hook, the hook fact must be clearly stated in the article. Yoninah (talk) 19:46, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- But a crocodile is a crocodilian, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 21:29, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- If the article says -- As denoted by its kanji, waniguchi literally means "crocodile (or alligator) mouth". -- then the hook should say -- ... that the waniguchi gong is named after its resemblance to the mouth of a crocodile (artist's impression pictured)? Do you want this promoted or not? Yoninah (talk) 22:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- Is the question not rather do you wish to block a perfectly compliant nomination on entirely spurious grounds, thereby perpetuating WP:Systemic bias - or not? Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 14:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
- Pinging BlueMoonset for assistance here. Yoninah (talk) 16:58, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
- Is the question not rather do you wish to block a perfectly compliant nomination on entirely spurious grounds, thereby perpetuating WP:Systemic bias - or not? Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 14:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
- If the article says -- As denoted by its kanji, waniguchi literally means "crocodile (or alligator) mouth". -- then the hook should say -- ... that the waniguchi gong is named after its resemblance to the mouth of a crocodile (artist's impression pictured)? Do you want this promoted or not? Yoninah (talk) 22:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- But a crocodile is a crocodilian, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 21:29, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- But the article says "crocodile", not "crocodilian". Per WP:DYK#Eligibility criteria 3. Cited hook, the hook fact must be clearly stated in the article. Yoninah (talk) 19:46, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, calligraphy, penned being instrumentally inaccurate; have replaced with “written” if that is clearer; wani isn’t always that species-specific: per the linked wiktionary definition, it’s something with ‘four legs like a turtle and a three-foot mouth with sharp teeth’. Crocodilia include crocs and gators so should cover all eventualities, thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 19:59, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Reviewer here - I assumed "brushed" was referring to calligraphy, but you're right that clarification would be helpful. SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 14:47, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, I admittedly missed the kanji link. Your edit clears things up. DYK approved. :) SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 21:29, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
The insinuation that this is an attempt to block the nomination, or some kind of attempt to perpetuate WP:Systemic bias, is inappropriate. The idea here is to work through the issues, not get entrenched in opposing positions. In this case, "crocodilian" refers to an entire order that encompasses far more than crocodiles or alligators, which is too broad for the sourcing or article wording, so the goal is to get the hook to be more accurate—properly dialed in. It's a matter of wordsmithing, not spurious at all, but needing a modicum of patience and perhaps creativity. We have time here to get this right; the nomination is only 17 days old. Possible rephrasings might include "to the mouth of an alligator", "to the mouth of a crocodile or alligator", "to an alligator's mouth" (or crocodile's mouth or crocodile's or alligator's mouth or alligator's or crocodile's mouth). It's probably best to avoid the ambiguity of "to a crocodilian mouth". I tend to get stuck within a hook's existing structure when making suggestions; perhaps a more different hook wording would work better? BlueMoonset (talk) 18:55, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks for stepping in, your time and suggestions, and for all the oil on the hopefully not too troubled waters; how about, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 22:41, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
ALT1 ... that the waniguchi gong is named after its resemblance to the mouth of a crocodile or alligator (artist's impression pictured)? alligatorcrocodile