User talk:Bzaoral

Welcome!

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August 2012

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed maintenance templates from Malton Minor Hockey Association. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.  -- WikHead (talk) 01:51, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Please do not remove maintenance templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Malton Minor Hockey Association, without resolving the problem that the template refers to, or giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your removal of this template does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Thank you.  -- WikHead (talk) 03:50, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Bzaoral, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Bzaoral! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Please join other people who edit Wikipedia at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space on Wikipedia where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. We hope to see you there! Visit the Teahouse This message automatically delivered by your friendly neighborhood HostBot (talk) 05:02, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Doug Dunville

A tag has been placed on Doug Dunville requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Victão Lopes ^{I hear you...} 00:15, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Greg Anaka

The article Greg Anaka has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

It does have some assertions of notability, but they seem quite irrelevant for this person to have an article at Wikipedia.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Victão Lopes ^{I hear you...} 00:25, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Doug Dunville

The article Doug Dunville has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, all newly created biographies of living persons must have at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one.  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:21, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Doug Dunville has been reverted.
Your edit here to Doug Dunville was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline. The external link(s) you added or changed (http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/Toronto_Marlboros_&_stars) is/are on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. If the external link you inserted or changed was to an external Wiki, then please note that these links should generally not be included (see 'links to avoid' #12).
If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 01:58, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, such as on Talk:Toronto Pearson International Airport, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You could also click on the signature button or located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when they said it. Thank you. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• Do I need to add a signature for every line of content that I add? --Bzaoral , talk 18:36, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

You only need to sign when communicating in talk pages (not article pages). This helps identify who left which comment. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 18:52, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Sudbury Ontario – Street Addresses and Buildings

Hello, Bzaoral. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Sudbury Ontario – Street Addresses and Buildings, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:

1. edit the page
2. remove the text that looks like this: {{proposed deletion/dated...}}
3. save the page

Also, be sure to explain why you think the article should be kept in your edit summary or on the article's talk page. If you don't do so, it may be deleted later anyway.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks,  Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 02:09, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

I also think it should be deleted, but perhaps if you are interested a "list of historic buildings in greater sudbury" might be a more suitable page to create. Mattximus (talk) 03:03, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Sudbury Ontario – Street Addresses and Buildings

Hello, Bzaoral. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Sudbury Ontario – Street Addresses and Buildings, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:

1. edit the page
2. remove the text that looks like this: {{proposed deletion/dated...}}
3. save the page

Also, be sure to explain why you think the article should be kept in your edit summary or on the article's talk page. If you don't do so, it may be deleted later anyway.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks,  Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 04:51, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Sudbury Ontario – Street Addresses and Buildings

Hello, Bzaoral,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Sudbury Ontario – Street Addresses and Buildings should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sudbury Ontario – Street Addresses and Buildings .

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks,  Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 04:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Frank McKechnie

It's been a long-established consensus on Wikipedia, documented at both WP:POLITICIAN and WP:OUTCOMES#Politicians, that city councillors are not generally notable enough for Wikipedia articles unless the city is an internationally famous metropolitan "world city" on the order of Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, New York City or London (the one in England, not the one in Ontario). Outside of that rarefied stratum of cities, however, a city councillor is only notable enough for an article if you can demonstrate that they're substantially more notable than most other city councillors. You'll kindly note that before you created Frank McKechnie, the only Mississauga city councillors who had articles are the ones who either previously or subsequently also served as federal Members of Parliament, and thus qualify for articles on that criterion rather than as city councillors — nobody else who's ever sat on Mississauga City Council has an article if Mississauga's city council is the highest level of public office that they ever served in. Another editor did, in fact, once try to create articles about everybody on Mississauga city council, and every one of them ended up with a consensus to delete, because Mississauga's city council just is not a topic of broad international interest.

As a rule, politicians at the municipal level are not automatically notable enough just for holding office, but are included or excluded based on a variety of factors including the size of the city and the volume and quality of referencing that's actually present — even mayors don't get an automatic presumption of notability just for being mayors, and the inclusion cutoff for mayors is lower than the one for city councillors. The lowest level of office that a person automatically qualifies for a Wikipedia article just for having held it, in fact, is the provincial legislature — for anything below that, you have to make a much stronger case for notability than simply being able to demonstrate that the person existed.

The reason metropolitan city councillors clear the bar more easily than others is that those cities actually garner enough international media attention (and even national or international distribution of their local media) that their city councillors typically become just as famous outside the city as they are locally. But you cannot say the same for city councillors in Mississauga or London (Ontario this time) or Hamilton or Saskatoon, so their notability is more exclusively local in nature and thus not sufficient to warrant coverage in an international encyclopedia. Of course, there are occasional exceptions where a councillor in a smaller city can qualify for a Wikipedia article — but they typically require that the person garnered media coverage for something beyond the mere fact of serving on city council. Dar Heatherington, for example, wouldn't have gotten an article just for being a city councillor alone; she got one because she garnered national and international media coverage for committing a crime. Joel Burns wouldn't have gotten one just for being a city councillor; he got one because he became an international household name when he released an It Gets Better video. So they didn't get articles just for being city councillors; they got articles for becoming, for either good or bad reasons, more notable to a broad, international range of readers than most city councillors are.

So, all of that said, let's take a look at what you actually wrote: a few cursory biographical details, of which the only one that was actually sourced at all was the date of his death (and even that was sourced to his obituary in a weekly newspaper that has no distribution at all outside of Mississauga), followed by a résumé-style bulleted list (itself a no-no when it comes to Wikipedia content) of the municipal committees that he served on. No demonstration whatsoever of why anybody outside of Mississauga itself would ever need or want to read a basic biographical sketch of him, no non-local sourcing to demonstrate that he ever became particularly well-known outside of Mississauga, no claim that he had a particularly unique or remarkable record of accomplishment in the job, no evidence that he's any more notable than all the past or present Mississauga city councillors who either never had articles in the first place or had them and got deleted.

Notability on Wikipedia is not a question of subjective assessments — a person doesn't become notable just because he was a good guy with a long record of community service whom one Wikipedia editor sees fit to memorialize; he becomes notable because you can add real reliable sources which demonstrate that he's a topic of interest to a broad, international readership. Your audience isn't just in Streetsville, it's in Vancouver and Glasgow and Singapore too — so if you can't write an article which demonstrates a credible reason why those people might be interested in reading about Frank McKechnie (e.g. accomplished something out of the ordinary, went on to serve in the provincial or federal legislature, was on the council of a city large and internationally famous enough that they might already have heard of him anyway, was named to the Order of Canada, etc.), then Frank McKechnie isn't a good topic for a Wikipedia article. Bearcat (talk) 18:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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Nomination of Rockwood Village, Mississauga for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Rockwood Village, Mississauga is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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October 2022

Thanks for contributing to the article Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars. However, one of Wikipedia's core policies is that contributions must be verifiable through reliable sources, preferably using inline citations. Please help by adding more sources to the article you edited, and/or by clarifying how the sources already given support the claims (see here for how to do inline referencing). If you need further help, you can look at Help:Menu/Editing Wikipedia, or ask at the Teahouse, or just ask me. Thank you. Dormskirk (talk) 18:37, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I know how to cite sources. I had at least 8 sources referenced in the first part of my re-write.

-----

My re-write:

251 Anti-Tank Bty had been detached from 63rd A/T Rgt on 27 September 1941, and travelled from Portrush, Northern Ireland to Butlin's Camp, Clacton-on-Sea where it joined three other batteries detached from existing regiments to form the new 85th A/T Rgt. This was one of a number of regiments being formed in this fashion under War Office control, ready to be shipped to one of the fighting fronts.

On 11 November 1941 the regiment boarded the P&O ocean liner SS Narkunda at Gourock near Greenock, Scotland on the River Clyde as part of "Winston Special" convoy WS 12Z. WS 12Z convoy sails just before midnight of the November 12th (into the 13th).

Convoy WS 12Z arrives at Freetown, Sierra Leone on 25 November 1941.

On 24 December 1941, convoys WS12Z-A (Aden), WS12Z-B (Bombay) and WS12Z-M (Malaya) depart Durban. The SS Narkunda is in Convoy WS12Z-M, headed to reinforce Singapore. On 30 December 1941, USS Mount Vernon (AP-22) joins convoys WS12Z-A, WS12Z-B and WS12Z-M at 0832 (GMT +4). At 1000, USS Mount Vernon, escort HMS Emerald and WS12Z-M detach and become Convoy DM 1. Convoy DM 1 is headed for Maldives. There was a fuelling stop at "Port T", Addu Atoll, Maldives on 4 & 5 January 1942 (no shore leave).

What part is missing verifiable and reliable sources?

------

Although my re-write of the the "Prisoners of War" section did not cite any sources, the re-write is superior to the existing passage. Some of the 251st/85th Regiment died defending Singapore. Many died as POWs in Changi, Singapore, many died a slave-labour on the Death Railroad, many died in Sumatra, many died on Hell-Ships or in Formosa or Japan if the Hell-Ship wasn't torpedoed and sunk.

My re-write:

Prisoners of War

The rest of the 251st Battery and the 85th Anti-Tank Regiment, along with 60,000 others became Prisoners of War on 15 February 1942. The POWs were marched to Changi Prison. Later in 1942, a large number of the POWs were enslaved and forced to work on the infamous Death Railroad which was completed 17 October 1943. Subsequently, the men continued to be used as slave labour.

By war’s end, the mortality rate exceeded 30%; deaths mainly in Thailand, Singapore, or on a Hell Ship, but some died in Formosa, China (Hong Kong), Malaysia or Japan.

Existing passage:

The men of 251 Battery became some of the 60,000 prisoners taken by the Japanese. For three and a half years they were used as slave labour to build the notorious Burma Railway.

------

I only went in to edit the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars page as I received an email from the Webmaster for QOOHA & OYT website - https://www.qooh.org.uk/

Hi Bruno,

I’m after some help with a problem on Wikipedia. On the QOOH Wiki page - Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars - Wikipedia – some person has been entering a lot of information on it, since I last looked at it (some 18 months ago). I’ve spoken with 2 guys from our QOOH Association, who are considerable experts on pre WW1, and the WW1 and Boer War eras, and they say that all the data seems to be correct.

But I have some issues with what’s been written for the WW2 era and beyond. The section which covers 251 Bty and the 85th have some discrepancies also. I’m wondering how I can go about getting this changed to reflect the truth and not someone’s dreamt up version ?

The info on 251 Bty and 85th is written thus :-

· On 22 September 1941, 251 A/T Bty was detached from the regiment and sent to County Durham to help form a new 85th A/T Rgt - 27 September 1941 [not 22 September] was the day 251 bty left for England. They went to BUTLIN'S CAMP, CLACTON-on-SEA [not County Durham]

· 251 Anti-Tank Bty had been detached from 63rd A/T Rgt on 22 September 1941, and travelled from Northern Ireland to Wolsingham, County Durham, where it joined three other batteries detached from existing regiments to form the new 85th A/T Rgt. - 251 Bty (the original battery) never went anywhere near Wolsingham, County Durham, they went direct to the Butlins Camp, at Clacton-on-Sea.

· In November the regiment joined Convoy WS12Z bound for the Middle East, but was diverted en route to Malaya, which had been invaded by the Japanese on 8 December. 85th A/T Regiment landed on 13 January 1942 and after taking part in the Defence of Singapore the whole regiment became Prisoners of War on 15 February. – no mention of the convoy being split up and the changes in destination of the whole convoy.

· The men of 251 Battery became some of the 60,000 prisoners taken by the Japanese. For three and a half years they were used as slave labour to build the notorious Burma Railway – again, no mention of the men of the 85th being used as slave labour (note the American spelling of labor used) in numerous places of Japanese territories taken during the war (Japan, Formosa, China, etc), or the countless numbers who died in the Hellships.

------

I would cite at least this reference for the "Prisoners of War"

Chapter Four: The Heroes of 251 of the "Oxfordshire Yeomanry Gunners 1922-1967 book by David Blomfield ISBN 978-1-326-40826-8 published by Oxford Yeomanry Trust 2015

Would you be satisficed with:

https://www.roll-of-honour.org.uk/Hell_Ships/

https://www.britain-at-war.org.uk/WW2/Hell_Ships/

as sources for the "Prisoners of War" section? Bzaoral , talk 20:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi - I have adjusted the material you had added to the article, mainly for grammar, compliance with our guidelines etc. There seems to be an excessive amount of detail on the travel arrangements. Can we not reduce some of that? Dormskirk (talk) 20:33, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits.

There is a lot of misinformation in books and on the internet about the dates, the route, and the convoy numbers that the SS Narkunda was part of. What is documented here is the correct timeline and route for convoy WS12Z, WS12ZM and DM1. I have been working with 3 others on the 85th AT Regt research for a couple of years and been researching on my own for 10-years. When I started my research, there was zero information on the 251st Battery of the 85th Anti-Tank Regiment on Wikipedia.

Our group has photos of ADM/1138 log from Kew giving the daily coordinates (latitude and longitude) from the time convoy WS12Z left Scotland to Durban, and then convoy WS12ZM from Durban to 370 miles due east of Mombasa.

I ordered the ship log for the American ship USS Mount Vernon (had to wait for the US Archive to reopen after COVID), so we have the daily coordinates for Convoy DM1. Apparently, no other researcher/authors had thought to do this.

Of course, the travel part seems too detailed, but the correct information is not available anywhere else.

BTW, my interest in the 251st/85th is that my father-in-law was a Japanese POW for 3-1/2 years. He was in the 251st Battery. Bzaoral , talk 21:30, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

OK. Thanks for that - especially the bit about why you are so interested in the topic. Dormskirk (talk) 21:35, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

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Nakhon Nayok POW Camp moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Nakhon Nayok POW Camp, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:21, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nakhon Nayok POW Camp (December 25)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by JML1148 were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

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Your draft article, Draft:Nakhon Nayok POW Camp

Hello, Bzaoral. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Nakhon Nayok POW Camp".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. ✗plicit 23:51, 18 July 2023 (UTC)