User talk:DrChuck68/Archives/2021/August
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I've had FM above AM for years on almost all the Mexico navboxes (a few US-adjacent ones excepted) because of the number of FM stations compared to AM (which is quite substantial given migration). Only a few of the Mexico navboxes, all on the border, have the dual US-style "by frequency and call sign" listings. Is this something you'd want to bring to them? Some are rather large and cover an entire state, or a state minus one or more metro areas. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
- Are you saying format the Mexico navboxes like the U.S. navboxes? That's not a bad idea, and can be easily done. By ordering the bands/groups as AM/SW/FM, it puts the groups in frequency order (kHz precedes MHz). --DrChuck68 (talk) 00:13, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- After looking through some of the Mexico navboxes, I see what you mean about covering states and metros. That makes things a little different than the ones in the U.S., but I believe I can work with that. Let me ponder this for a bit. --DrChuck68 (talk) 16:11, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, I see you're looking at the old Mexico Radio Markets breakdown. All the templates linked to that. It was overkill particularly as I began to spin out regions that had enough stations from notably bloated templates and the number of stations itself increased. Since everything linked to it, I turned it into a tracking template (essentially a dynamic watchlist generator for my use). Are more spin-outs needed (notably, say, Monterrey vs. Nuevo León or Mérida vs. Yucatán)? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 22:44, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- After looking through some of the Mexico navboxes, I see what you mean about covering states and metros. That makes things a little different than the ones in the U.S., but I believe I can work with that. Let me ponder this for a bit. --DrChuck68 (talk) 16:11, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I would suggest spinning out Monterrey and Mérida, particularly Monterrey as that appears to be a major metro (I'm still getting a handle on Mexican geography/cities/states). Are you considering breaking down the statewide navboxes so that they are no longer necessary, and using station lists for each state instead? I noticed that many states don't have their own list built yet, and that would make the Mexico stations more like the U.S. stations (where any station that does not fall into a particular navbox can be found in the list). That would make the navigation links at the bottom of the box simpler, having just "Nearby regions" without using "Adjacent states." --DrChuck68 (talk) 23:35, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, a couple of things:
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- Even though all Mexican calls have suffixes, these can probably be hidden in the by call sign list, with the exception of the 20 or so FMs with call letters that begin in XE (e.g. XEWV-FM Mexicali).
- AM-FM migrants shouldn't be listed in the Defunct station on Ensenada (think of this more like Canada conversions). XHBCE does belong — it got moved out of the area altogether.
- I'll work on spinning out Monterrey and Mérida. How many stations per area make a viable box, in your opinion? That might lead to more spin-outs. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 15:56, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I would suggest spinning out Monterrey and Mérida, particularly Monterrey as that appears to be a major metro (I'm still getting a handle on Mexican geography/cities/states). Are you considering breaking down the statewide navboxes so that they are no longer necessary, and using station lists for each state instead? I noticed that many states don't have their own list built yet, and that would make the Mexico stations more like the U.S. stations (where any station that does not fall into a particular navbox can be found in the list). That would make the navigation links at the bottom of the box simpler, having just "Nearby regions" without using "Adjacent states." --DrChuck68 (talk) 23:35, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, yes, now I see what you're saying about hiding the suffixes. XE is assigned to AM and XH assigned to FM. That makes sense, as the initial letters indicate the band, and the suffix is not always necessary.
- Ensenada stood out to me as a good candidate for a spin-out, and that had 15 AM plus 1 AM station. If you have an area that has around ten or more stations, I'd do a spin-out. Less than that might indicate that they're in a very rural area, and can be left in the state navbox. --DrChuck68 (talk) 16:22, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, that's correct but note the exceptions. They are few and far between and tend to be in the largest cities (CDMX and Guadalajara have more than half of them anyway).
- These are the needed split-outs, I think:
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- Baja California Sur: La Paz
- Chihuahua: Chihuahua (the template name should likely be "Chihuahua City Radio"), Ciudad Cuauhtémoc, Hidalgo del Parral (which also has 2 real defunct stations)
- Coahuila: Monclova
- {{Monclova Radio}} — I commented out the bottom since I think a bit of setup is needed for the state. Considering another spinout template be "Región Carbonífera Radio" ("Coal Belt" — Sabinas, Nueva Rosita) with XHENR XHMZI XHEC XHNRC XHESCC XHPEEN XHYJ XHBX and XHEPQ. The remaining stations would then be XHJQ Parras, XHPEDM Cuatro Ciénegas, stations in the Cinco Manantiales area (XHVD XHVUC XHVUN XHZR) and some particularly lonely state network transmitters that don't have their own pages anyway. XHMZI will have two linking boxes; it's a big signal. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 21:47, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
- Nuevo León: Monterrey
- Quintana Roo: all four regional splits
- San Luis Potosí: San Luis Potosí City
- Veracruz: Córdoba & Orizaba
- Yucatán: Mérida
- Zacatecas: Zacatecas City Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:27, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, I'll keep the exceptions in mind, I'm already familiar with XETRA-FM in Tijuana. All those areas are good candidates for splitting. --DrChuck68 (talk) 17:50, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
- Update: Spun out {{Parral Radio}}, {{Chihuahua City Radio}}, {{Guaymas Radio}} (the last one needs to be put in the pages). Sonora has two markets of eight stations: San Luis Río Colorado (really more like nine) and Navojoa. Would those be worth splitting out? SLRC may be simply due to its US proximity. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, here is where I reveal that I am still learning about Mexico geography :) I had no idea that SLRC was that close to Yuma, AZ. In fact, I think splitting out SLRC and Navojoa would be a good idea. Ten stations isn't a strict minimum for a navbox. Eight or nine need a bit of a judgement call. And Sonora could use some splitting. --DrChuck68 (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, I'll do that.
- One other suggestion. I see you're listing in the footer as "Nearby regions: State of Chihuahua, State of Coahuila, State of Nayarit, State of Sinaloa, State of Zacatecas". This looks redundant. Could "Nearby states" or "Adjacent states" be useful? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:29, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, here is where I reveal that I am still learning about Mexico geography :) I had no idea that SLRC was that close to Yuma, AZ. In fact, I think splitting out SLRC and Navojoa would be a good idea. Ten stations isn't a strict minimum for a navbox. Eight or nine need a bit of a judgement call. And Sonora could use some splitting. --DrChuck68 (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, my original thought was to use the "Nearby regions" label and prefix any states with "State of" to distinguish states from cities. However, I see adding the "Adjacent states" label will distinguish the states just fine. --DrChuck68 (talk) 18:44, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, created {{San Luis Río Colorado Radio}}. I'll be doing more in the next few days. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:18, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Added {{Navojoa Radio}} and, in Chihuahua, {{Ciudad Cuauhtémoc Radio}}. Wondering if Delicias also deserves a split-out from Chihuahua. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:11, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, created {{San Luis Río Colorado Radio}}. I'll be doing more in the next few days. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:18, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, my original thought was to use the "Nearby regions" label and prefix any states with "State of" to distinguish states from cities. However, I see adding the "Adjacent states" label will distinguish the states just fine. --DrChuck68 (talk) 18:44, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, I would recommend splitting out Delicias. --DrChuck68 (talk) 22:58, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, Good call. I just did {{Córdoba and Orizaba Radio}}. Haven't had the chance to go around and do all the navbox substitutions necessary... Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:01, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, I've just gone through all the Sonara cities and made sure the navboxes are in their proper place. One thing that confuses me a bit is the FM migrations. For example, XHYO-FM was approved to migrate from XEYO-AM to XHYO-FM in 2013. I'm presuming that this has happened, but is the AM station still on the air, or has it gone silent? If it is silent, why is the AM call sign still referenced in the article? --DrChuck68 (talk) 01:18, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, 'YO is a weird one. Documentation of its migration from 2013 failed to post for years! Mexican migrants have a year to simulcast and then get out of the way, unless getting the AM off the air leaves someone unserved — Category:Radio stations in Mexico with continuity obligations.
- Some stations are "Combos of '94" — about 60 in operation, 83 in all (with the remainder having surrendered their right to broadcast on the AM band). Most of the duplicated call sign pairs in Mexico involve a Combo of '94.
- If you have questions, let me know. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:00, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Also, what sort of distance is appropriate for "nearby regions"? That's why I haven't switched on the Monclova footer... Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:43, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, I've just gone through all the Sonara cities and made sure the navboxes are in their proper place. One thing that confuses me a bit is the FM migrations. For example, XHYO-FM was approved to migrate from XEYO-AM to XHYO-FM in 2013. I'm presuming that this has happened, but is the AM station still on the air, or has it gone silent? If it is silent, why is the AM call sign still referenced in the article? --DrChuck68 (talk) 01:18, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, Good call. I just did {{Córdoba and Orizaba Radio}}. Haven't had the chance to go around and do all the navbox substitutions necessary... Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:01, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, I would recommend splitting out Delicias. --DrChuck68 (talk) 22:58, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, from my experience with the U.S. boxes, I haven't pinned it down to a fixed number of miles (kilometers) that make an appropriate distance. I use a map as my guide to see what's a drivable distance from a location (as most people listen to the radio in their car). If you look at Tijuana on a map, it's about 65 miles from Ensenada, which can be easily driven in about an hour (without traffic). Tijuana to Mexicali is about 110 miles, which will take a couple of hours to drive, but it can be done. In those boxes, I have Tijuana & Ensenada as nearby, and Tijuana & Mexicali as nearby. I'd also consider Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo as nearby, and they're 137 miles apart. There's a lot of space in between Mexico cities, kind of like Texas, so "nearby" doesn't always necessarily mean "next door" or just across a river. By comparison, the northeast U.S. has nearby regions that can be as near as 50 miles or less. For the purposes of Mexico, if two cities are more than about 250 miles apart, I might not consider making them nearby each other (I'll see how I feel about that after I do more boxes). --DrChuck68 (talk) 00:44, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, Sounds good. I just did all four Quintana Roo splits. In that case the state box will no longer exist as the four regional splits are the box's entirety. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 00:50, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, from my experience with the U.S. boxes, I haven't pinned it down to a fixed number of miles (kilometers) that make an appropriate distance. I use a map as my guide to see what's a drivable distance from a location (as most people listen to the radio in their car). If you look at Tijuana on a map, it's about 65 miles from Ensenada, which can be easily driven in about an hour (without traffic). Tijuana to Mexicali is about 110 miles, which will take a couple of hours to drive, but it can be done. In those boxes, I have Tijuana & Ensenada as nearby, and Tijuana & Mexicali as nearby. I'd also consider Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo as nearby, and they're 137 miles apart. There's a lot of space in between Mexico cities, kind of like Texas, so "nearby" doesn't always necessarily mean "next door" or just across a river. By comparison, the northeast U.S. has nearby regions that can be as near as 50 miles or less. For the purposes of Mexico, if two cities are more than about 250 miles apart, I might not consider making them nearby each other (I'll see how I feel about that after I do more boxes). --DrChuck68 (talk) 00:44, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- More boxes made, plus one I realized was needed (Chilpancingo, Guerrero). I might feel like one or two more are gonna have to happen (Villahermosa, Tabasco). Some states will be like Aguascalientes with the bulk of stations in the state capital but a split would leave too thin a box: Durango, Colima, Nayarit and Querétaro come to mind. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:27, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, I did notice that about some states, and that's okay. Having a mix of state and city boxes will work out. I've started putting the nearby regions list and adjacent states list on separate lines in the footer, to make things a bit less cluttered. Both states and cities can have either one or both lists, as cities can be right on the state border, and some states will not have their cities spun out.
- I have another migration confusion. XHEMA-FM began as XEMA-AM, and in 2011 received authorization to move to FM. Since 2013, they have been broadcasting on 107.9 FM. The article makes no mention of the AM going off the air, so is it still on the air? If I look up XEMA-AM on fccdata.org, I see it has a record, but is it valid/current? The accompanying navbox shows both frequencies, 107.9/690, as does the infobox in the article. --DrChuck68 (talk) 13:18, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, Yes. This station has a continuity obligation. Look for Category:Radio stations in Mexico with continuity obligations (the category has more explanatory details). Essentially, if they turned off the AM, people would be left without radio service. XHEMA's is actually one of the larger ones by population. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:05, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- I have another migration confusion. XHEMA-FM began as XEMA-AM, and in 2011 received authorization to move to FM. Since 2013, they have been broadcasting on 107.9 FM. The article makes no mention of the AM going off the air, so is it still on the air? If I look up XEMA-AM on fccdata.org, I see it has a record, but is it valid/current? The accompanying navbox shows both frequencies, 107.9/690, as does the infobox in the article. --DrChuck68 (talk) 13:18, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, thank you for pointing out that category. I feel I have a better understanding of AM/FM conversions and continuity obligations.
- Occasionally, I'll see a station marked in italics in a navbox, and I'm not sure what it means. Sometimes it means under construction, or silent, which I can figure out from reading the article. However, sometimes I can't figure it out at all. For example, XHITD-FM is in italics in the navbox, but after reading the article, I can't tell if it is under construction or silent. My only clue is a lack of entry in fccdata.org. Any ideas? XECSCGU-AM is another italic mystery. --DrChuck68 (talk) 12:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, XECSCGU is on air and should have the italics removed. XHITD is straight-up defunct — it failed to perform a one-time permit-to-concession transfer, an event that left them without an operating license, and went off some time later. They have applied for a whole new concession but are not the leading contender for the frequency. XHINS in Saltillo is still operating, somehow, though it hasn't had a legal document to back that up with in years. XHHCC-FM in super rural Coahuila is a similar case to XHITD as to why they died, but the IFT turned down their application for a new concession because they have ruled that stations owned by mine management alone do not qualify for community status. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:43, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- I will note the above links (or others from the same Medium blog) shouldn't be cited — in addition to the normal WP:SELF, I have my, ahem, reasons for that. Which, if you've been around me on Wikipedia more than 8 months, should be immediately apparent. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:46, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- Thinking of one more split: Villahermosa, Tabasco.
- This box would contain most of the Tabasco stations except for XETQE, XHZX, XHUTU, XHVET, XHPJON, XHRTM, XHEMZ, XHTQE, and XHJON. I am trying to figure out if XHCPBS, which rimshots Villahermosa but is not based there, belongs in this box. XHPECV in Comalcalco may not belong either (it is a rimshot), but I'd want it in the same box as the other Comalcalco FM, XHVX (which *does* belong in the Vhsa template); it may be on air. Thoughts? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 22:39, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- I will note the above links (or others from the same Medium blog) shouldn't be cited — in addition to the normal WP:SELF, I have my, ahem, reasons for that. Which, if you've been around me on Wikipedia more than 8 months, should be immediately apparent. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:46, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, XECSCGU is on air and should have the italics removed. XHITD is straight-up defunct — it failed to perform a one-time permit-to-concession transfer, an event that left them without an operating license, and went off some time later. They have applied for a whole new concession but are not the leading contender for the frequency. XHINS in Saltillo is still operating, somehow, though it hasn't had a legal document to back that up with in years. XHHCC-FM in super rural Coahuila is a similar case to XHITD as to why they died, but the IFT turned down their application for a new concession because they have ruled that stations owned by mine management alone do not qualify for community status. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:43, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- Occasionally, I'll see a station marked in italics in a navbox, and I'm not sure what it means. Sometimes it means under construction, or silent, which I can figure out from reading the article. However, sometimes I can't figure it out at all. For example, XHITD-FM is in italics in the navbox, but after reading the article, I can't tell if it is under construction or silent. My only clue is a lack of entry in fccdata.org. Any ideas? XECSCGU-AM is another italic mystery. --DrChuck68 (talk) 12:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, yes, Villahermosa would be a good split, and do keep the rimshots with it. That leaves nine in the Tabasco box, which is fine. By the way, I have seen you on WP for more than 8 months, and I understand! --DrChuck68 (talk) 23:35, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, Villahermosa done. I see Toluca might be a candidate out of the State of Mexico box. Durango City would be too, but there would be very few remaining stations in the Durango state box (XHCSBE XHSRD XHCPAR XETPH and one I need to add, XHCSDJ — of those three are unbuilt).
- I actually need to audit these boxes and add some new station awards, too... Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 00:30, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, yes, Villahermosa would be a good split, and do keep the rimshots with it. That leaves nine in the Tabasco box, which is fine. By the way, I have seen you on WP for more than 8 months, and I understand! --DrChuck68 (talk) 23:35, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, rather than creating a separate Durango City box, Durango City could be in its own group in Durango state. This is similar to what I did with Aguascalientes, I made groups for Aguacalientes City and Calvillo. Durango can have groups Durango City and Other areas. --DrChuck68 (talk) 13:35, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, completely agree. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:03, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, rather than creating a separate Durango City box, Durango City could be in its own group in Durango state. This is similar to what I did with Aguascalientes, I made groups for Aguacalientes City and Calvillo. Durango can have groups Durango City and Other areas. --DrChuck68 (talk) 13:35, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
State of the Union: As of this morning, 49 of the 59 city navboxes are properly formatted/grouped and are on the appropriate articles. For the state navboxes, 13 of the 32 have been formatted/grouped accordingly. As far as the nearby regions and adjacent states on each navbox, after I have them all formatted & grouped, I'll come back and do those footer lists. Doing nearby region lists takes me longer than just verifying that the template is being used the right articles. Using and referring to the Mexico map can sometimes lead me, geographically, to places in no particular order. --DrChuck68 (talk) 14:31, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- Update: As of now, all 59 city navboxes are formatted/grouped and places on correct articles. --DrChuck68 (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- Update 2: Now, 20 of 32 state navboxes are formatted/grouped. Getting closer to doing nearby regions. --DrChuck68 (talk) 18:15, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, now only these three state navboxes remain, which I believe will not have anything spun out:
- {{Hidalgo Radio}}
- {{Morelos Radio}}
- {{Queretaro Radio}}
- However, they could use some city/region grouping within the state boxes themselves. --DrChuck68 (talk) 19:19, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- DrChuck68, That sounds right.
-
- Hidalgo: The main groupings will be Pachuca, Tulancingo, and the rest of the state.
- Pachuca: XERD; XHPK XHMY XHBCD XHUAH XHRD XHPCA
- Tulancingo: XENQ; XHNQ XHPECI XHPECJ1 XHQB XHTNO
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- Morelos: Morelos is a small state where most stations are heard in the state capital of Cuernavaca. A lot of stations have local to fringe coverage there even if they are in other areas. (And if they're not, they're retransmitters of public stations from Cuernavaca)
-
- Querétaro: The Querétaro metro stations are XEQRMD; XHJX XHUAQ XHQRT XHKH XHXE XHHY XHOZ XHOE XHRQ XHQTO XHMQ XHQUE XHJHS XHNAQ XHGV XHQG. The rest should be in an other areas split. No city has more than three stations outside of Querétaro City. The "statewide network" label is not as needed here with fewer transmitters (I mostly used it for states like Sonora that had lots of transmitters that could gum up a list of this type). Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:42, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- Sammi Brie, now only these three state navboxes remain, which I believe will not have anything spun out:
- Update 2: Now, 20 of 32 state navboxes are formatted/grouped. Getting closer to doing nearby regions. --DrChuck68 (talk) 18:15, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
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