User talk:Fenvoe

Welcome!

Hello, Fenvoe, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, like Fritz Springmeier, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! WuhWuzDat 15:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Fritz Springmeier[edit]

A tag has been placed on Fritz Springmeier requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WuhWuzDat 15:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback[edit]

Hello, Fenvoe. You have new messages at Wuhwuzdat's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

WuhWuzDat 16:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CSD [from deleted article talkpage][edit]

Hi. Thanks for raising the issue of CSD. I'm a little confused what the argument for CSD is. Fritz has well over 40,000 hits on Google, so I hope the reason isn't lack of notability. What is the reason it's been nominated for CSD please? --Fenvoe (talk) 15:59, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't tag the article for speedy deletion, but I can help all the same. The article does not assert the subject's notability. Also, I believe there's a guideline that Google search hits does not prove notability. If Mr Springmeier is notable, please add good sources that establish this. --A More Perfect Onion (talk) 16:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply. How is the notability established? It's not clear from looking at other articles on people how this is being done. --Fenvoe (talk) 16:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Found it, it's an essay: WP:GOOGLEHITS is an argument to avoid; the number of results from a web search is not in and of itself an indication of the subject, so don't argue for retention or for deletion solely due to Google hits. Personally, I've seen plenty of articles at Good Article quality or higher that are sufficiently obscure that I'd expect very few results if I searched for them on Google. --A More Perfect Onion (talk) 16:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's just an essay. It's not WP policy. It might represent the viewpoint of just one editor, for example. --Fenvoe (talk) 16:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're quite correct; WP:GHITS is an essay, not even a guideline (as is WP:OSE, below). The main point is, does this article assert its subject's notability? And as this article is about a living person, the bio of living persons policy applies. --A More Perfect Onion (talk) 16:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For example, it might help if it can be explained why Edward Lord is not a candidate for speedy deletion - there's more information on Fritz than there is for Edward, and I don't think the Edward article has ever been nominated. --Fenvoe (talk) 16:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article on Edward Lord asserts notability (member of the City of London council, for starters). The assertion is enough to prevent CSD; I got hit recently for getting this wrong. Please also see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS; an article's inclusion or deletion ought not to be argued from another article's existence or nonexistence. --A More Perfect Onion (talk) 16:06, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's an essay also, not WP policy. It's rather ironic that you're quoting essays to argue about deciding notability as the essays themselves are not notable. --Fenvoe (talk) 16:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How does being a member of City of London council make someone notable? --Fenvoe (talk) 16:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm drawing on these essays to help fashion a discussion based on strong reasoning, and avoid weak reasoning. As for your question on Edward Lord, feel free to raise the question on that article's talk page. --A More Perfect Onion (talk) 16:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
E.g. Fritz has a beard - does this make him notable? --Fenvoe (talk) 16:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me (and this is just my opinion) that a world-record length beard might be notable, and the zillions of people who have beards individually would not be notable on that basis. --A More Perfect Onion (talk) 16:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So what are you saying? That the characteristic has to be something rare? How is being a member of a council a rare thing? Can you give something more tangable that clearly highlights why this person is notable, but the other person (just a random example) isn't? --Fenvoe (talk) 16:30, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from anything else [from deleted article talk page]][edit]

Does this comply with this policy on biographies of living people? – B.hotep •talk• 16:20, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. It seems to. Why do you ask? --Fenvoe (talk) 16:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because it doesn't look like it does. No sources for any of the statements. It needs to comply with that otherwise it will be deleted. – B.hotep •talk• 18:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]