User talk:Forthbridge

Welcome!

Hello, Forthbridge, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome!

Your edits[edit]

I am sorry I was less than forthcoming on earlier instances. I was rather confused about your intentions towards deleting information. I notice that you have made the necessary changes and another editor has also looked over them. If I can be of any help in the future, please let me know. ^LeaveSleaves _talk 17:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Station Descriptions[edit]

The general format I follow when working on station articles (and template I use when creating articles)

Infobox - either {{Infobox UK station}} or {{Infobox UK disused station}}
A brief one or two sentence description
Section: History - Opening of station, significant events, etc.
Section: Services - details of current and past services, concluding with route box
Other relevant sections - for disused stations (current use of site); current stations (significant redevelopments, etc)
References: Notes and Sources (although some earlier ones are a bit of a mess)

Also have a look at the work that User:Britmax has been doing, as part of his RVJ Butt project.

At some towns were there are more than one station (not large cites like Glasgow, there are disamb page created - see Barrhead railway station (disambiguation) (without map) and Ardrossan railway station (with route diagram).

For some examples see Ardrossan South Beach railway station and Alloa railway station (a station that has been re-opened and re-sited) --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 20:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have also sought help from User:Signalhead who I have found is helpful is making sense of the multiple edits and info in article, that Livingston article has suffered with. It is not unusual for duplicate information to be added. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 21:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Helpme[edit]

{{helpme}} A couple of questions. Is it possible to 'draft' an edit to a page without it going live initially?

Yep. You may use the sandbox, or better, create a subpage of your userspace, for example, User:Forthbridge/Article. Copy/paste the source and test all you want. :) Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 21:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(ec)Yes, by creating a user sandbox or subpage and then moving the article once it is ready. You can create a user sandbox by clicking this link, add the text, and save. When you are ready to move it, click move on the top tooolbar, or ask me on my talkpage and I'll move it. --Terrillja _talk 21:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For example, create a page such as User:Forthbridge/sandbox (click on this red link and it will open a new page for you to edit and experiment with) and edit that page. Once you are happy with it paste and copy the text into the appropriate article page. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 21:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that! Forthbridge (talk) 23:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Single Line (or not)[edit]

As far as passenger services were concerned, the single line ran from Cawburn Junction to Bathgate. This is described in Edinburgh to Bathgate Line, paragraph 3. Freight services also operated on a single line basis west of Cawburn. All now history since the line was doubled to Bathgate prior to electrification earlier this year and the re-opening to Airdrie. If you wish further clarification contact Signalhead who is professionally involved in railway signalling in Scotland.

For further complications, consider the Largs line which operates as a single line for passenger services north of Stevenston (only the up line is electrified), however it is double track for frieght (non electric hauled trains - not requiring the use of a platform at West Kilbride or Ardrossan South Beach) as far north as Hunterston. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 00:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not questioning the operational aspects, however, the term 'single' seems to be a 'little' too 'final' - may I suggest perhaps altering the sentence [ As the line between Cawburn Junction and Bathgate had been singled, the stations at Livingston North and Uphall only required to have single platforms.] to read something along the lines of 'Livingston North was opened with a single platform, the line at this point having been reduced to one track'? (Im not sure on the reference to Uphall - a seperate issue)

On the subject, does the 'Bathgate Branch' (86 to 08) deserve a quick history? There's mention of reopening but no context as in why it was as single line. Forthbridge (talk) 00:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mention is made to the Edinburgh to Bathgate Line. This particluar article is far more appropriate to the description of operation and construction. I do not think a detailled explanation is appropriate to the station article. A brief mention is all that is required in the Livingston (and Uphall) station article. This way it is far easier to keep the articles up to date and avoids duplicated and possibly contradictory information. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 08:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kirknewton railway station[edit]

What exactly do you mean by "alter them slightly"? Your edit constitutes as vandalism (unexplained removal of referenced material).-SilverOrion ^{(You talk way too much!)}

In that case, just to revert my edit and continue.-SilverOrion ^{(You talk way too much!)}

Bathgate Upper[edit]

Tidied it up a bit, but my reference books - especially Jowett - do not mention a Bathgate North junction. Placed a comment on Signalhead's page as I think he has access to historical track diagrams. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 22:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Philpstoun railway station[edit]

Hiya

Would you mind 'setting up' the Philpstoun page for me to edit? Not too sure on doing a page from scratch yet, but I've plenty info to input.

Cheers Forthbridge (talk) 20:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done - please make sure that you include in-line citations for any material you add to improve the quality and traceability of your contributions. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 22:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for adding. can you advise on a couple of things? My sources are either NBR Working timetables, or OS maps of various dates. As there's no 'links' available to any of this, what's your suggestion for input?Forthbridge (talk) 22:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You will note that I have added an on-line version of an OS Map. List the items in the sources section, and then refer to them using inline citations - as I have doen with the Butt references. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 22:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'll play around first to get the hang of the citation aspect.Forthbridge (talk) 22:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Livingston railway station[edit]

Hi, I have created a separate article for the original Livingston railway station, seeing as it was located on a different site than the present Livingston North railway station. –Signalhead ^< T > 19:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bathgate's Railway History[edit]

Preamble[edit]

This article deals with the inception, development, subsequent decline and following development of the Railway in Bathgate. Several things must be remembered when reading this article. Firstly, any period in time, much like a photograph, can only tell so much of a story. Even today, 'current' maps will not include recent developments or changes in any given areas surroundings. This is a major consideration when undertaking to give accurate information on anything historic. Various sources have been used to provide the information in this article - many of which are Ordnance survey maps, reproduction of which is a siginificant issue. Where possible, links are provided to websites which contain the appropriate maps. (FURTHER EXPANSION OF SOURCES NEEDED). Traffic patterns, and mileage, junction, branch details as well as listings of sidings served are based on the NBR 1896 working timetable (OTHER SOURCES). The difficulty of being totally precise is a major factor in providing a quality article - but in context, it is not even possible for the current owners of the rail network to give precise information of a certain age: [1] is an example.

This article shall therefore give information which is corroborated in maps, timetables and other sources over a period of time, and should be seen as an overview of the railway. It is not intended (or possible) to give precise information on conditions on a specific date - for this reason, where changes in the area are dubious, a 'between' timescale will be presented.

Early History[edit]

Bathgate gained it's first Railway Station on (DATE) when the Edinburgh and Bathgate Rly Co's line from Bathgate (Now Newbridge) Junction to Bathgate opened. The original terminus was situated a few yards west of the current (1986) station. (New development has seen the yard and railway at Bathgate trimmed back to the east: it initially terminated at the eastern side of the Whitburn Road).

Expansion[edit]

Bathgate and the surrounding area was a highly important location in recent history, for instance, the worlds first commercially successful oil production started in Bathgate [2]

For a number of years, (SPECIFIC) from Bathgate was used to fill the streetlamps of major cities in the UK, including London. This was transported by rail.

As these emergant industries of coal production, steel making, and shale oil production grew, the railway followed as lines were built to serve these places. Indeed, the Edinburgh to Bathgate line was for a time one of the most siginificant lines in the whole of the UK - aside from the number of coal mines in the area, West Lothian at one time had a total of 120 shale mines (LINK) alone. Associated with many of these were oil works on varying scales. At it's height, some 2 million tonnes of shale alone was being extracted for processing in West Lothian (EXPANSION,CITATION) - all of this involved railway connections in one form or another, often connecting to tramways and other internal means of transport. The remnants of this industry are still visible today in the colossal spent shale bings across West Lothian. The visible appearance of these bings visually depicts the sheer volumes of shale which was mined and processed.

West Lothian and in particular the area around Bathgate also contained many coal mines over the years (INFO). Hard figured are difficult to come by, but by way of comparison, Smeaton Station in East Lothian, adjacent to Dalkeith colliery, and a railhead for (EXPAND) handled some 765,000 tonnes of coal in the year ending 31 December 1913, this level was 672,000 tonnes by 31 Dec 1932 (HADJUCKI). To further emphasize scale, Carberyy Colliery, near Smeaton, a mine comparable in size (perhaps slightly smaller) that Easton and Balbardie mines in Bathgate employed at one time 750 men and produced half a million tonnes of coal annually (HADJUCKI). These figures varied to some extent, and as the years went by production dropped, but it is possible to gain some idea of the massive volumes of traffic dealt with around Bathgate.

Comments[edit]

The content of your draft article above is good although the preamble is too wordy. List your sources at the end of the article, not the start. You've written enough factual information to form the basis of an article and it reads pretty well too.

Here are a few tips, based on what I've seen of your edits on Wikipedia so far:

Create your own sandbox where you can draft new articles. Your talk page isn't the proper place to do that.
Avoid wandering off the article's subject - remember that Wikipedia has articles on just about every topic. Any interesting (and encyclopedic) facts about collieries or street lamps etc. belong in articles having to do with those things. You need only provide a wikilink to the relevant article, which people can click on if they want to find out more.
Be aware that Wikipedia has a Manual of Style.
Only the first word of article titles and section headings should be capitalised, unless the title contains a name.
Take note of the correct spelling of "separate".
Do not put an apostrophe in the word "its" (when used as a possessive pronoun). Only the shortened form of "it is" has an apostrophe.
Avoid random capitalisation of words in your text (e.g. "Railway Station").
Avoid putting external links in amongst the main text of an article. External links should either be within a reference or listed under the appropriate heading (e.g. "External links" or "Sources").

I hope that's useful. I think you're doing a good job and have much to offer. Keep it up! –Signalhead ^< T > 18:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Very helpful, thanks a lot! I'll get a sandbox set up and plod away. Forthbridge (talk) 20:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Slamannan lines/Edinburgh and Bathgate[edit]

Hi Thanks for correcting my 'wrong page' edit - I had just discovered it as you had...!

Would there be any chance of a page for the Edinburgh and Bathgate, and associated lines?

Is there any issue with the use of NBR timetable info?

Also, I have added a table to the Slamannan line page. You may want to have a look, if you think it doesn't suit, no problem in deleting it. (I am considering a similar table to describe individual branch lines - what's the view on that?)

Forthbridge (talk) 22:10, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Will have a look at an E&B page - but it will probably be Friday before I can put some time aside to do it.

I see no problem with using the NBR timetable - reference it and you are sorted.

Not sure about the table I was going to sleep on it. Is it not the way I had done it for other lines (i.e. Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway), but the way you have done it is a different way which has merits. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 22:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]