User talk:Gpmuscillo

Meatmen Article

Hi Gpmuscillo,

I can appreciate to some extent where you are coming from, but the open bigotry in the MEatmen's music is as clear and explicit as anything by Screwdriver.

Their songs DO single out gay people for harassment.

Tesco may have changed now, but to say that his band/fans did not endorse anti-gay violence, or actively participate in it, is just flat out dishonest. They DID, in fact, exhort people into fits of anti-gay violence, as well as racist violence... there is a whole scene of neo-nazi punks in Detroit who trace their lineage right to Tesco Vee and Touch and Go records. Truth be told, there was a time when Tesco was actually quite proud of that fact. Whether one likes it or not, the Meatmen encouraged racial and anti-gay violence, and that violence DID result in actual confrontations. Anyone over 40 would know that. Its just a fact.

Now, I am not trying to make this an anti-Tesco article, but facts are facts, history is history-- to say that Tesco did not actively promote racism and homophobia, and that he did not do so intentionally is like saying that Sid Vicious never wore a swastika, or that GG Allen never flung his feces at the audience, or that Conflict didnt endorse street rioting.

Now, i hope you dont take any offense at my position on this. I am not interested in duking it out, or unintentionally pissing off you or other Meatmen fans. But you say that a person who might resent the Meatmen wouldnt be an appropriate editor for their Wiki page. Well, neither would a fan of the MEatmen. Today, fans of the Meatmen really seem to want to cover up the truth of the bands actual history and practice. And it really is just flat-out dishonest. I respect that you dont want this article to be a complete rip on them..., but you have to understand, that, as a self-described fan, you really are dismissing an uncomfortable truth about the band. Even if Tesco has changed now, thats not who he was 30 years ago, and even he knows it. Since his hey-day was actually 30 years ago, what he did at that time cannot be seen as immaterial to this article.

Please understand that the entry you provided was far too delicate, and dismisses a very salient (if even embarrassing) truth about the subject.

We should let the article be fair, but if you completely side-step the truth about what the Meatmen actually promoted (regardless of their clean-up routine now), its not just unfair, its dishonest.

Ceemow (talk) 09:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for your reply and sorry for taking the best part of 8 months to reply. What my point was is that just because you (and most people) find their views objectionable or that they were associated with unpleasant things does not mean Wikipedia doesn't have a responsibility to present a neutral, encyclopedic article. For example, 'Violence against LGBT people' is not a genre of music. Also, unless Tesco himself explicitly states so, claiming that The Meatmen's music is deliberately designed to encourage violence against LGBT people is libellous as he can always claim it's a "joke" or "not meant to be taken seriously". Nevertheless, I think that the article in its current form is fine as there is a sense of balance and neutrality. It would be better if there was a more thorough biography of the band but that will probably not happen any time soon because I don't have time to research one and I doubt anybody else does either. Gpmuscillo (talk) 23:54, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

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