User talk:Ucjudst

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Happy editing! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:54, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Cena (November 17)[edit]

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Timtrent were:

I am not convinced that a sign language used by 34 people can be notable unless there is something very particular about it (with citations) that makes it leap over the high bar of inclusion here. Your task is to find that thing

This draft's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article. In summary, the draft needs multiple published sources that are:

in-depth (not just passing mentions about the subject)
reliable
secondary
independent of the subject

Make sure you add references that meet these criteria before resubmitting. Learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue. If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Cena and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:53, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your speedy review and comments. I've addressed several issues that reviewers such as yourself left, and I'll go into a bit more detail here. I have kept the language as the main focus of the draft for now, because I think it is the notable thing about the village - the fact that a language isolate has developed there largely uninfluenced by any other existing language. I understand that the number of native users is relatively low compared to many other (spoken) languages, but this is common with sign languages of this type and I see that other village sign languages with similar numbers of native users also have Wikipedia pages (e.g. Kata Kolok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kata_Kolok which has 40). As for what makes the language itself of note, I have expanded the linguistics section to detail its use of reiterated code-switches which is for now a totally unique aspect of its grammar which does not appear in any existing literature to my knowledge. I've included several more references and links, turning them into references and external links where appropriate following your suggestion. This means that not so much rests on the single paper that you mentioned. Since I've kept the language as the main focus, maybe the layout of the article with the information about the village at the end is a bit odd - I am very open to reworking this somehow. This is not a request to re-review (though of course I would be open to any further comments), more to say thanks for your insights so far

Ucjudst (talk) 11:14, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cena has also been accepted for listing on the language database Glottolog by the editors, but since it will appear in the next update I understand that this may not be able to function as supporting evidence for now Ucjudst (talk) 11:17, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest, after the work you have done, you resubmit for review. Others will review it and you will benefit form extra pairs of eyes. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:12, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ucjudst! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:53, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Timtrent: sign languages are inherently notable, even more so if they're isolates. Given the sourcing in the current version of the draft, GNG is likely met as well. There's no need for the language and the place to be treated within the same article (unless someone feels like that would make for a better exposition).
Ucjudst, I've had a very quick look at parts of the draft, and it looks really good. One thing that you may need to be extra careful about is the appearance of original research. That's probably the most fundamental difference between writing for Wikipedia and writing in other academic contexts, and the distinctions here can sometimes be very subtle (these things are explained in Wikipedia:No original research). Take for example the following statement: the articulatory variation indicates that Cena, like the Sayyid Bedouin Sign Language, doesn't have a fully fledged phonological structure. The in-line reference for that statement needs to make all of that informational content explicit: it needs to say that there is articulatory variation in Cena, that this variation suggests the absence of phonological structure, and that Cena is in this regard similar to that other sign language. There's no need to cite the original study of the Sayyid Bedouin Sign Language (even though that would be expected in academic writing), as that paper wouldn't support any of those three statements. – Uanfala (talk) 18:03, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Uanfala Educate me, please. Show me a citation (etc) that says that sign languages are inherently notable please. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:43, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Cena has a new comment[edit]

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Cena. Thanks! Eagleash (talk) 13:55, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As an addition, AfC reviewers feel that although the language may not be notable, the village or area may be so as a populated place. See WP:NPLACE for the notability guidelines. The language could then be created as a re-direct (assuming an article about the area is accepted) as it appears to have an important role locally. Eagleash (talk) 19:27, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Cena has a new comment[edit]

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Cena. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 06:30, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Cena has a new comment[edit]

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Cena. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Cena has a new comment[edit]

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Cena. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:12, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Cena has a new comment[edit]

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Cena. Thanks! Robert McClenon (talk) 07:10, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge[edit]

I've merged this page with Cena (village sign language) following suggestion from editors. I will delete this page if/when that is accepted as a new article. Ucjudst (talk) 13:43, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

February 2023[edit]

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Draft:Cena a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Cena (village sign language). This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases for registered users, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Requests for history merge. Thank you. 2A01:4C8:63:D401:F801:7946:6747:8FFC (talk) 13:50, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Cena (sign language) has been accepted[edit]

Cena (sign language), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. This is a great rating for a new article, and places it among the top 20% of accepted submissions — kudos to you! You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

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Thanks again, and happy editing!

Sionk (talk) 18:54, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]