User talk:Xyl 54/sandbox 9

Event 500?

Looking at the account of U-557 on the bottom, I have concerns it be mentioned at all. If "all her compressed air" was exhausted, how did she blow ballast? How, exactly, does "rocking" stem to stern happen? It's not like the main gangway was exactly suited for running.... TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 22:45, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello TREK:

TBH I'm still having trouble taking anything W says seriously: the whole incident is reminiscent of the scene in Das Boot, where U-69 sank in the Straits of Gibraltar.

So, did the same thing happen twice (to U557 in the Baltic and to U-96 at Gib)? Or did it only happen to U-557, and Buchheim lifted the account for his book; or was it U-96 and it was W who recycled the story? Or did both of them cobble something together out of something else entirely? Uboat.net says U-557 suffered a diving accident, but I don't know their source for that; for all I know they might have got it from IC too.

OTOH it does sound like reportage: The notion of forming a bucket line to shift weight, and change the boat's aspect, was done by the crew of Thetis; the penalty they paid was fouling the air faster with their exertions (W describes that, too). In Das Boot they used the bilge pump to put the water over the side; W says the bilge pumps weren't working on U-557. And the idea of running up and down to shake the boat off the bottom (or at least moving the weight of the crew back and forth) sounds familiar (unless I'm remembering it from the first time I read IC); did they do that in Das Boot? I can't remember. The book is a bit clearer about what happened; they blew the tanks, but the suction of the mud held the boat down. The “rocking” broke the suction and she floated up.

As far as the U-557 page goes I had wanted to keep some of the original, and a quote from W seemed appropriate; maybe it'd be better if it was more obviously a quote. Your other changes seem fine, so I've put them in; but I'm taking the tags off the U-557 and U-230 pages so any other alterations you feel are appropriate to either of them, I'd say go ahead. Keep smiling, Xyl 54 (talk) 20:35, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

It's been ages since I read anything really detailed about sub ops in this period. :( That being so, I can't say if the efforts to break suction would work; it's the "rocking" claim I disbelieve. Thetis's effort makes sense, & surfacing (with dry tanks) makes sense; it would want a mention of dry tanks, for clarity's sake. I also have a vague recollection of a U.S. boat bottoming & being stuck, & needing to work clear, but beyond that... Was it in Beach (good bet), or O'Kane, or Blair (best bet)? Or was it, in fact, a WW1 Brit boat? I no longer have any idea...

I do recall "Das Boot" featuring the crew running back & forth, which works in a movie; I'm far less sure it does IRL...& I'm dubious it ever happened. (If you've seen interior pix of a U-boat, or any period sub, you'll understand why.)

You remind me of another matter: how deep was the water? Wouldn't this put U-557 below crush depth? (That's what I expected for "Das Boot", but given Hollywood... I don't recall what Buchheim said.)

On "recycling", & who did what for whom, IDK. I have my doubts about some of Buchheim's claims, but accepted them as service of the subject; my own ignorance of just how good U-boats were, compared to USN fleet boats, is also a factor. I'm not going to guess. :)

As for anything else, I've seen no real gripes or issues, aside some minor formatting cleanup, so I'll probably just stay out of your way on it. :D TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 05:09, 2 September 2015 (UTC)