Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bernard Hinault/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 10 August 2019 [1].

Bernard Hinault[edit]

Nominator(s): Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:52, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Bernard Hinault, five-time winner of the Tour de France and one of the most prolific athletes in the history of his discipline. The article passed GA in March. I nominated it for FA in April, but not much interest in reviewing it meant that it failed. I am now re-admitting it, hoping for more participation. I am pinging Brianboulton and Giants2008, the only two people to chip in last time around. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:52, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – I supported at the first FAC and don't see any reason to change my mind now. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:13, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Comments by Sportsfan77777[edit]

I'm going to comment this time. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:18, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Any news? Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:42, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here are my comments:

Lead

  • His amateur career was extremely successful and he signed with the Gitane–Campagnolo team to turn professional in 1975. ===>>> After an extremely successful amateur career, he signed with the Gitane–Campagnolo team to turn professional in 1975. (no parallelism as is)
  • In 1978, he won his first two Grand Tours, the Vuelta a España and the Tour de France. ===>>> In 1978, he won his first two Grand Tours: the Vuelta a España and the Tour de France.
  • A knee injury forced him to quit the 1980 Tour de France while in the lead, but he returned to win the World Championship road race later in the year. ===>>> Although a knee injury forced him to quit the 1980 Tour de France while in the lead, he returned to win the World Championship road race later in the year.
  • In the 1986 Tour de France, he engaged in an inter-team rivalry with LeMond, who won his first of three Tours. ===>>> In the 1986 Tour de France, he engaged in an intra-team rivalry with LeMond, who won his first of three Tours.
  • In the infobox, is the Boss or the Badger his primary nickname? From the lead and the article, it sounds like the Badger should be listed first?
All done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:35, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

  • Okay.

Amateur

  • He received his own bike when he was 15, as a reward for passing his school examinations and used it for his trips to college. ===>>> He received his own bike when he was 15 as a reward for passing his school examinations, and used it for his trips to college.
  • During the summer of 1971, he made training rides with René, who was a second-class amateur and had problems keeping up with the sixteen-year old. ===>>> During the summer of 1971, he made training rides with René, who had problems keeping up with the sixteen-year old even though he was a second-class amateur.
  • This was his last season as an amateur and again highly successful ===>>> This was his last season as an amateur and again was highly successful
All done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:35, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1975–77

  • he would have likely been prevented from turning professional before the 1976 Summer Olympics in order to be part of the French team there. <<<=== Who (or what) would prevented that?
  • unwritten rules of the field (peloton) ===>>> unwritten rules of the peloton (the main field)
  • Hinault won all of the intermediate cash prizes until five-time Tour de France winner Eddy Merckx declared that Hinault was included in the pact. <<<=== I'm a little confused. Did Merckx actually add him to the pact at some point, or did he just pretend Hinault was in the pact to take his money?
As I understand, he included Hinault in the pact, meaning that all the money was split up between all of them after the race. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:35, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • he came sixth at the World Championship Road Race being beaten to the line for fifth by Eddy Merckx. ===>>> he came in sixth at the World Championship Road Race, being beaten to the line for fifth by Eddy Merckx.
  • During the spring classics season of 1977 ===>>> During the one-day spring classics season of 1977
I think that is quite redundant, a classic is a one-day race by definition. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:35, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1978

  • He won stage 11b, a mountain time trial in Barcelona ===>>> He won stage 11b, a mountain time trial in Barcelona,
  • A sixth win was prevented on the final day of the Tour: A short time trial was raced in the afternoon ===>>> A sixth win was prevented on the final day of the Tour, which was a short time trial was raced in the afternoon
  • Which stage did Hinault make up ground on Zoetemelk after the uphill time trial? If it is stage 16, that is not clear.
  • That was, until Pollentier was caught trying to defraud his doping test and was disqualified, leaving Hinault and Zoetemelk to fight out the overall victory. ===>>> However, Pollentier was disqualified for being caught trying to defraud his doping test, leaving Hinault and Zoetemelk to fight out the overall victory.
All done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:55, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1979

  • losing almost four minutes to Zoetemelk ===>>> losing almost four minutes and the lead to Zoetemelk
  • Zoetemelk broke away with Hinault ====>>> Zoetemelk and Hinault broke away
  • Zoetemelk finished 3:07 minutes behind Hinault, but then had ten minutes added to his time for failing a doping test. <<<=== Maybe not important, but why wasn't he disqualified?
Back then, it was customary to receive a ten-minute penalty for a positive doping test instead of being disqualified (even though this was often handled inconsistently). I could provide background on that, but since it is not actually about Hinault, this seems a little too much in the scope of this article. Zwerg Nase (talk) 15:24, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • his first of four consecutive Super Prestige Pernod International <<<=== Should that be plural?
Added the word "competitions". Zwerg Nase (talk) 15:24, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1980

  • partly to prepare for the cobbled sections during that year's Tour de France ===>>> partly to prepare for the cobbled sections in the upcoming Tour de France ("during" doesn't seem right)
Done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 15:27, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1981

  • Hinault had never made a secret about his dislike for riding on cobbled roads. ===>>> Hinault had never made it a secret about his dislike for riding on cobbled roads. --OR-- Hinault had never made his dislike for riding on cobbled roads a secret.
Done.
  • On the time trial to Pau on stage seven, he regained the lead and did not lose the jersey until Paris, ===>>> On the time trial to Pau on stage seven, he regained the lead and did not lose the jersey, (He never lost the jersey.)
I don't really understand the distinction? Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:34, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I mean it sounds like he lost the jersey in Paris. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:40, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1982

  • stage-three <<<=== That hyphen is inconsistent.
  • Later in the season, he added another victory ===>>> Later in the season, Hinault added another victory (Otherwise, "he" sounds like Zoetemelk.)
Both done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1983

  • He came back and took the lead the following day on the mountain stage to Castellar de n'Hug. <<<=== Who is "He" here? Hinault?
  • Add when Gorospe took the lead in the Vuelta.
Gorospe moved back into the lead on that very stage, have added half a sentence to reflect that.
  • with him taking victory in Ávila ===>>> with Hinault taking victory in Ávila
  • Hinault's tendinitis had returned and after two failed attempts to get back into racing after the Vuelta, he announced that he would miss the 1983 Tour de France. ===>>> Following the Vuelta, Hinault's tendinitis returned. After two failed attempts to get back into racing, he announced that he would miss the 1983 Tour de France.
All done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1984

  • Next, he won the Trofeo Baracchi, a two-man time trial, in which he competed with Moser. <<<=== Any particular reason he competed with Moser?
I wish I knew. Often, teammates competed in this event together, but it appears that sometimes it was just friends or riders put together for whatever reason (maybe to produce an exciting race). I cannot find a source that explains this in detail, all I know is that the two rode that edition together. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1985

  • underlying his loyalty ===>>> showing his loyalty
  • holding an advantage ===>>> building an advantage
  • This was enough to secure a record-equalling fifth Tour victory for him, by just under two minutes from his younger teammate. ===>>> This was enough to secure a record-equalling fifth Tour victory for Hinault, by just under two minutes over his younger teammate. ("him" is not clear; "from" implies behind)
All done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I made a change to the third point.

1986

  • He won the mountains classification and was given the combativity award. ===>>> He won the mountains classification and was also given the combativity award.
Done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Retirement

  • Okay.

Riding style

  • His enigmatic exit from the 1980 Tour created tensions with the press that would never fully recover during his active career. ===>>> His enigmatic exit from the 1980 Tour created tensions with the press that would persist during the rest of his active career. (His relations wouldn't recover, but the tensions remained.)

Nickname

  • Okay.

Doping

  • French Senators <<<=== I don't think "senators" should be capitalized?
Done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

  • The prose is solid. I pointed out some minor grammar issues. The main repeat issue is using "he" when it isn't clear that the subject is Hinault. Will support once the above points are addressed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 08:08, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Sportsfan77777: Have reacted to all of your comments, most is done, one or two things I did not really understand. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Lee Vilenski[edit]

Taking a look now. Hope to give some feedback soon. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:23, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Any news? Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:42, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here's what I've got:
  • known by the nickname le blaireau -Should the nickname be in quotes?
I think the italics should be sufficient? Not sure if there is a policy about this.
  • He associated himself with the animal on the grounds of its aggressive and fightful nature, a trait he embodied on the bike[according to whom?]
Is expanded upon and sourced in the article body, so no source needed in the lead.
  • What's an second-class amateur?
I rephrased this sinced I couldn't find a source explaining the amateur system of the 1970s.
  • Who is 16 in this sentence? During the summer of 1971, he made training rides with René, who was a second-class amateur and had problems keeping up with the sixteen-year old.
Clarified.
  • he and René escaped from the field to take a dominant victory, shared as they crossed the finish line together - is it a dominating victory if neither one won? Is "dominating" NPOV?
Rephrased.
  • This note Due to the events of the stage in San Sebastián, the Vuelta a España did not return to the Basque Country until 2011. seems a little out of place to me. Could easily be in the prose if important, ignored if not.
Removed. Thought it was interesting to add it, but you're right, it doesn't concern Hinault.
Most of it seems fine to me, a few nitpicks. If you look at the above, I'll see if there is anything else. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:08, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: I think everything here is taken care of. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:49, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review[edit]

Apart from issues resolved at last FAC:

  • Links to sources all working
  • Formats: ref 103 requires pp.
  • No further issues relating to quality and reliability.

Brianboulton (talk) 18:32, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Brianboulton: Done. Thank you! Zwerg Nase (talk) 08:48, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes[edit]

Unfortunately this seems to have stalled and will have to be archived soon if it does not attract any additional support for promotion. @Sportsfan77777: Do you have anything additional? --Laser brain (talk) 10:53, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Laser brain: I have been making changes over the past two days. I know, I am slower than I'd like, but it's not stalled... please don't close this again... :( I am doing my best! This jumping on closing nominations is exactly what demotivates people from contributing from Wikipedia... Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Laser brain: I am supporting now that my comments have been addressed. With three supports, does that suffice? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:46, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have requested an image review, since this is still missing. Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:18, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Zwerg Nase: Status of addressing Cas's comments below? --Laser brain (talk) 17:23, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Laser brain: I am hoping to get this done today! Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:14, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Laser brain: Done! Zwerg Nase (talk) 12:43, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Laser brain: Pinging you to see if maybe the article has enough support now? Source and image reviews are done. Zwerg Nase (talk) 13:18, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Cas Liber[edit]

Taking a look now....

After an extremely successful amateur career - sounds effusive. I'd tone it down a little "After an (highly) successful amateur career" or something
Done.
Advised to try to stay with the other riders, Hinault won the event. - I don't follow...he didn't stay with the other riders...?
Have added the word "only" to make it clearer. He was supposed not to get dropped, but instead dropped everybody else.
sleeping between straw in the barn - err, "sleeping on/under straw in the barn"?
Done.
he and René escaped from the field and reached the finish alone - "escaped" seems an odd word here..."outpaced"? "set off"? sorry, am cycling neophyte and realised later what this was about
During the spring classics season of 1977, Hinault left the Tour of Flanders before it had even started - do we know why? The reader is curious....
Done.
with a "colossal margin" of 3:15 minutes ahead of favourite - there should be a way of saying "colossal margin" without using original words and quotes
I used the direct quote to avoid coming under POV when I tried to phrase it myself. I have now rephrased it a bit in my own words, hoping that this will suffice. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:28, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
crossing the finish line to take the title in "a state of obvious distress". - ditto
Done.

Apart from that, reads well in an engaging and exciting manner and looks pretty comprehensive. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:10, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Casliber: Thank you for your comments, all should be done now :) Zwerg Nase (talk) 12:42, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from BaldBoris[edit]

  • Starting with 1978 Vuelta a España, many races links are unnecessarily unpiped as it's clear from the section heading and intro what year it is.
I am trying to catch every instance of this. If you find the time, feel free to check if I spotted all of them.
  • at the 1978 Vuelta a España, then held at the end of April. The last part means nothing to someone who is unaware when the Vuelta is held now. I'd say move it to the beginning (In April,) or explain further.
Have added a note to explain this.
  • prevented on the final day of the Tour, Change to "race" as or add "Grand" before, although it's the "Tour" of Spain, the Tour de France has taken the word Tour.
Done.
  • His victory allowed him to wear the French tricolore for the following year. Add "jersey".
Done.
  • yellow jersey wearer Better to explain that it's the race leader there rather than a couple of sentences later.
Done.
Done.
  • Hinault suffered two punctures "two tyre punctures" or "two punctured tyres"?
Done.
  • that year's Liège–Bastogne–Liège Remove "that year's"
Done.
  • Frankfurt Add ", Germany" Outside of races where it's clear what country a city/town is in, I would add it. I can't find the MOS on it, but it's what I've always known.
Done.
  • Sallanches Add ", France"
Done.
  • Hinault had broken away about 80 km (50 mi) from the finish with several riders, including Pollentier and the first-year professional Robert Millar. What's the relevance of these riders? Pollentier was only mentioned previously as only a "temporary yellow jersey wearer" and Millar has none.
Removed and moved note about York into the quote box.
  • He suffered seven crashes and punctures, "tyre punctures"
Done.
Done. Wasn't even aware of that rule, thank you!
  • World Championship in Prague Add ", Czechoslovakia"
Done.
  • Giro–Tour I've always used a hyphen, but may be wrong?
I have done the hyphen.
  • Basel Add ", Switzerland"
Done.
  • criterium two days after the Tour "post-Tour criterium"
@BaldBoris: I don't quite understand. Should it be "post-Tour criterium two days after the Tour"? That sound a little redundant. I think the way it is written now is more understandable to non-cycling fans, who might not know the practice of post-Tour criteriums.
"post-Tour criterium two days after the Tour," But it is what it is. That is what cirteriums just after the Tour are called. Otherwise the reader will be questioning why he would ride a street race, unless it were a custom. The reader should not be patronised. If you feel it needs a note to aid in their understanding then do that. BaldBoris 21:56, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The fact it was two days after isn't important. BaldBoris 21:58, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • sporting director Stick with directeur sportif
Done.
Done.
  • he came second to Colombian Martín Ramírez Why mention his nationality when others don't?
Removed.
  • I wouldn't describe crashing into and punching a protester having "fighting spirit". It describes someone who's fought on when everything's against them.
Reworded.
  • leader's pink jersey in 1985. Already explained in 1980.
Done.
  • Even though Hinault had pledged support for LeMond for the 1986 Tour, Already say it's 1986, twice.
Done.
  • L'Alpe d'Huez Alpe d'Huez
Done.
Done.
  • , a criterium in Angers. Add ", France"
Done.
  • Hinault retired from professional cycling on 14 November 1986, his thirty-second birthday. Repeated from the start of the section. Looks messy. Either way remove 1986 from the date/dates.

Coming from a cycling guy, this article is very succinct. Will support once my comments are cleared up. BaldBoris 01:55, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@BaldBoris: Thank you for your comments! Haven't gotten through all of them yet, will do the rest later, hopefully tonight. I will have to check on that hyphen, I am not really sure either... Zwerg Nase (talk) 14:19, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@BaldBoris: I think I've gotten all now. There is just one thing where I didn't quite agree. Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:42, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All good, apart from the post- Tour cirterium bit. I support it nevertheless. BaldBoris 21:56, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@BaldBoris: Thank you! I have made the post-Tour criterium change and added a note. Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:35, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

It can be seen from Wikimedia Commons that the image is cropped from this original. Copyright and use information is given, as the National Archive of the Netherlands has a partnership with Wikimedia.
Same as above applies here. "Anefo" is short for "Algemeen Nederlands Foto", referring to the Dutch Photo News Agency. Names of actual authors are given next to their association.

ALT text looks OK to me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:54, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: I am not really experienced with these image things. What course of action do I need to take about the things mentioned above? Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:43, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The first image you need to show where the license statement is, the second and third images I'd yank them unless we can get the author information cleared up. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:52, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: I think I should have cleared that up now above? I am unsure if these things need to be made clearer on the Commons pages of the pictures? Not all too familiar with that project unfortunately. Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:22, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, in that case it seems all fine for me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:09, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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