Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hampton National Historic Site

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 19:23, 14 April 2009 [1].

Hampton National Historic Site[edit]

Nominator(s):  JGHowes  talk 03:11, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because, although it is relatively short, I believe it meets FA criteria, covers the subject comprehensively, is properly sourced, and uses images appropriately, and is ready for FAC.  JGHowes  talk 03:11, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - MoS compliance may require attention; see here for an example. –Juliancolton | Talk 04:14, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Have gone through the article and made MoS corrections.  JGHowes  talk 12:41, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good, thanks. –Juliancolton | Talk 14:26, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments -
  • I'm assuming that the McKee and the Gardens and Grounds refs are short and thus don't need page numbers? If they are over about 50 pages, you really should provide page numbers.
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Quite right—I've added page refs throughout for McKee; Gardens and Grounds is short.  JGHowes  talk 17:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This needs a lot of MOS work. There is an image in a section heading (that's a big no-no), and incorrect use of WP:ITALICS in National Park Service management. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sandy, MoS issues corrected. I've also removed quotes from the race horses' names, etc., although there doesn't seem to be a specific style guide at WP:THORO.  JGHowes  talk 00:07, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

These issues should be easy to fix. Awadewit (talk) 05:56, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All fixed. Please note, since your review I've added one more National Park Service PD image from their Digital Archives: File:Hampton NHS7.jpg.  JGHowes  talk 01:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've tidied up the images and tagged a few to be moved to Commons. Everything is in order now. Awadewit (talk) 03:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This article is not comprehensive. Two major omissions stuck out at me as I was reading. 1) A detailed description of the architecture of the mansion. The mansion is clearly a major landmark and yet there is very little description of the house itself. I would have thought that the article would have had individual sections on the mansion, the grounds/gardens, and the slave buildings, for example. 2) There is little discussion of slave life at the plantation. There are published articles on this specific topic. I found them in a "Bibliography" linked from the "For teachers" section of the NPS page. I would suggest that you do more research and expand this article. Awadewit (talk) 21:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose In addition to everything Awadewit said (some of which I was about to add myself) I have a few nitpicks: 1800s is ambiguous as it can also mean the period of 1800–1809. Please use century format instead. There are also a couple monster paragraphs (2nd paras in 1700s and 1800s). A strictly chronological section order in the history is bit constraining. A thematic presentation that is less strictly chronological and provides more descriptive subsection titles will likely work better. --mav (talk) 23:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Revisions/expansion per yesterday's comments of Awadewit and Mav are now being worked on and will be finished Thursday. Pls hangon until then.  JGHowes  talk 20:48, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, such massive revisions should not take place during FAC, particularly since they involve research. You do not have the time to read new material carefully, select the appropriate information, and seamlessly integrate it into the article. Awadewit (talk) 00:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose—1a. Two or three editors need to give the entire article a copy-edit. Examples:
    • Missing commas, such as before "including" in the very first sentence.
    • Lead section is a bit short.
    • "The landscaping also includes many trees which are more than 200 years old." Sentence could be trimmed.
    • "The property now known as the Hampton estate was originally part of the Northampton land grant given to Col. Henry Darnall (c. 1645–1711), a relative of Lord Baltimore, in 1695." Debatable, but "the property now known as" is unnecessary, as it's covered by "was originally part of".
    • This sentence is a bit of a snake and should be restructured: "In 1783, Capt. Ridgely began construction of the main house, Hampton Mansion, said to have been inspired by Castle Howard in England, owned by relatives of his mother."
    • "When Capt. Ridgely died that same year, his nephew Charles Carnan Ridgely (1760–1829) became the second master of Hampton." Some may say "same" is redundant, but I think it provides positive emphasis here. "Charles Carnan Ridgeley (1760-1829)" should be embraced by commas.
    • "Another of Ridgely's Hampton-raised racehorses at the time, Post Boy, won the Washington City Jockey Club cup." "Hampton-raised" is assumed, and is therefore redundant. I could make the same case for "at the time". In the previous sentence, you might want to insert a comma after "his racehorse".
    • "More than 300 slaves worked the fields and served the household, making Hampton one of Maryland's largest slaveholding estates." "worked the fields and served the household" can be shortened to "served the Manor" for the sake of succinctness.
    • "When Governor Ridgely died in 1829, he freed Hampton's more than 300 slaves in his will." Number of slaves is already mentioned a few sentences earlier.
    • "John Carnan added indoor plumbing, heating, and gas lighting to the mansion" "Indoor" seems redundant, especially with "to the mansion" at the end.
  • These are examples that more copy-editing is needed. I skipped over several iffy sentences, so try to get a couple outside editors to give you a hand. I know it's difficult to find people, but every bit of help is huge. — Deckiller 00:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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