Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Landis' Missouri Battery/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 13 October 2020 [1].

Landis' Missouri Battery[edit]

Nominator(s): Hog Farm Bacon 21:34, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An understrength Confederate artillery battery, Landis' Battery was formed in Missouri in early 1862, may have fought in the Battle of Pea Ridge, and then spent the rest of it's combat career in Mississippi. After surrendering at the conclusion of the Siege of Vicksburg in mid-1863, it was not reformed. I've created this from a redlink and taken it through DYK, GAN, and MILHIST ACR. After a comprehensive rework after the ACR, I'm ready to take on the final leg of the Four award. Hog Farm Bacon 21:34, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass

Per my review at ACR (t · c) buidhe 03:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM[edit]

I gave this a close look at ACR, and haven't a lot to add:

Lead
  • suggest "The battery fielded two 12-pounder Napoleon field guns and two 24-pounder howitzers for much of its existence,"
    • Done. Someday, I might write the 24-pounder howitzers article, in which case the link could be readded.
  • suggest "where the unit was commanded by Lieutenant John M. Langan, as Landis had been promoted." given the battery is named after him it is important to say what happened to him
    • Done

More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:17, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Body
  • say what sort of riot it was ie pro-secession
    • Done
  • "Price followed up the Confederate victory at Wilson's Creek"
    • Done
  • is "the anti-secession elements of the legislature had previously voted against secession" a repetition of "The state legislature voted against secession", or did this vote occur after the pro-secessionist elements were ejected from Jefferson City?
    • Clarified that the second vote occurred in July. I think it's important, as it underscores Missouri had two rival governments at this point
  • "The battery was assigned two 12-pounder Napoleon field guns"
    • Done
  • "However, several sources indicate that the battery did not see action in the battle" do they specifically say it didn't, or it is that they don't mention it?
    • McGhee explicitly states that the battery was not with the army at this time, and Barr states that the battery did not see combat (although Barr doesn't state if the battery was present in reserve or not with the army)
  • "on the night of May 29/30" as suggested by MOS:DATERANGE
    • Done. I wasn't aware of that part of DATERANGE
  • was Van Dorn's army the Army of the West? Suggest stating that Price was relegated to commanded a corps.
    • Done
  • "beggingbeginning the Second Battle of Corinth"
    • Oops. Fixed
  • "from the outer line"
    • Fixed. Evidently, I wrote this section too late at night

Down to 1863, more to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "the defenses ofn the Big Black River" as the river itself wasn't being defended
    • Done. Good point.
  • as the battery wasn't involved, suggest condensing to "On April 29, Union Navy vessels commanded by Admiral David Dixon Porter bombarded the Confederate position at Grand Gulf resulting in the Battle of Grand Gulf, but Landis' Battery was not part of the Confederate front line at Grand Gulf.[35] Due to one fort which held out, Grant landed 24,000 men downriver at Bruinsburg," including relevant links, of course
    • Done
  • move the link to Vicksburg to the first mention
    • Done
  • suggest moving "During the campaign, Lieutenant John M. Langan replaced Landis as battery commander,[62] after the latter became divisional artillery commander within Bowen's Division.[63] The change in command occurred before Champion Hill.[61]" immediately after "During the battle, Landis' Battery provided artillery support for the Confederate center." in the form "By this time,[61] Lieutenant John M. Langan had replaced Landis as battery commander,[62] after the latter became divisional artillery commander within Bowen's Division.[63]"
    • Done
  • add |author-link=Richard Holmes (military historian) to Holmes entry in the Sources
    • Good catch, I'll need to fix that at the Battle of Newtonia article, too

That is all I could find this time around, nice job. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of other things that occurred to me on a last read through:

  • suggest just adding field gun to the infobox for the Napoleons
    • Done
  • suggest moving the mention of Landis' promotion in the lead to the point where it occurred, along the following lines, "After Major General Ulysses S. Grant landed Union infantry at Bruinsburg in late April, Landis' Battery formed part of Confederate defenses at the Battle of Port Gibson in early May, after which Landis was promoted and Lieutenant John M. Langan took command. In mid-May, the battery was part of the defences during the Battle of Champion Hill."
    • Done, although I went with something slightly different that removed the second (somewhat repetitive) "defenses"

The rest have been addressed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work. Supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:50, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Thatoneweirdwikier[edit]

I'll take a look at this. Will be starting in about an hour due to the technical work going on soon. User:Thatoneweirdwikier | Conversations and Contributions 13:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "In mid-May, it took part in the Champion Hill." Considering how the other sentences in the lede have been structured, I think a little variety would be beneficial.
    • Changed the sentence opening, does this help?
  • "...as much of his support was from the northern states, while he received no electoral votes from the Deep South." Replace ", while" with a semicolon.
    • Done
  • "The fort surrendered on the 13th." Change "the 13th" to "the next day".
    • Done
  • "Two days later, the Missouri State Guard suffered another defeat at hands of Lyon..." Should be "at the hands of Lyon", should it not?
    • Good catch. Fixed
  • "Price was eventually joined by Confederate States Army troops commanded by Brigadier General Ben McCulloch, McCulloch commanded the combined force." These two sentences feel awkward. I would suggest a rewrite. Also, there's a comma where there should be a full stop.
    • Rephrased
  • "After Port Gibson, Grant was faced with a choice: he could approach Vicksburg from either the south or the east. An attack from the east presented the better chance of a complete envelopment of Lieutenant General John C. Pemberton's garrison at Vicksburg, so Grant decided on that route." I think it would be worth presenting the reasons to go south as well.
    • Done

That's all I could find. Ping me when you're done and I'll change my vote. User:Thatoneweirdwikier | Conversations and Contributions 17:26, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Comment from nominator

Well, I've become aware that the MOS would have this title be at Landis's Missouri Battery, rather than the previous one. I'll be moving it (if it'll let me move it over the redirect) after the relevant promotion/archival. Hog Farm Bacon 20:36, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – pass[edit]

  • "Order of Battle – Confederate" has a last updated date, which should be added as the publication date.
    • Added
  • Given all the other sources include it, add a publication location to "Wright, William C. (1984)"
    • Added, had to get if off worldcat
  • Other than that, all citations are made in an appropriate, consistent format.
  • "However, several sources indicate that the battery did not see action in the battle." The definition of several includes "more than two", but only two references are provided.
    • Changed "several" to "other"
  • Bevier 1879 is a primary source, but is used in a limited manner, and only for factual statements.
  • Spotchecks on McGhee 2008 all check out.
  • Spotchecks on Bevier 1879 all check out.

Overall, this just needs a couple of minor changes, and then it will be sorted. Harrias talk 10:37, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Great: nice work here, source review passed. Harrias talk 07:03, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note[edit]

Adding to the urgents list to hopefully get another review or two outside the subject area. --Ealdgyth (talk) 15:51, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from TRM[edit]

I'll get to this tomorrow assuming I don't contract Covid. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 20:58, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think I'm surprised to not see this at "Landis's" although I'm old school and prefer its current title, yet MOS doesn't agree I think.
    • See the note above, it's gonna be moved there after promotion/archival, although I prefer the current title as well
  • Is John M. Langan not notable enough for an article/red link?
  • "in the Champion Hill." surely "in the Battle of Champion Hill"?
    • Weird piped link. Fixed.
  • "the battery saw was part " remove "saw"
    • Removed. Apparently when I rewrote the lead, I didn't copy edit.
  • "the Siege of Vicksburg. While at Vicksburg, " quick repeat, why not just "While there.."
    • Done
  • Especially as you link Vicksburg second time round.
    • Well, it's the first time now...
  • Infobox red-links "24-pounder howitzers" (not surprised) but in the lead you just linked howitzer for this purpose, be consistent.
    • Went with the redlink. I hope to try to stub 24-pounder howitzers at some point.
  • "the northern states and the southern states over" the respective articles suggest these should be capitalised, e.g. Northern States/Southern States.
    • Done
  • " 1860 United States Presidential Election" presidential election.
    • Decapped
  • "after Abraham Lincoln was elected president in 1860. Lincoln's " quick repeat of Lincoln, why not "His..."
    • Yep. Done
  • "electoral votes" redirects to a general "electoral college" article, should really be pointed at United States Electoral College.
    • Fixed.
  • "On December 20, th" what year?
    • 1860. Added.
  • "nascent nation's" is nation the right word? Our article calls that collective a "state"?
    • I went with state. Whether or not the Confederacy was an independent nation is debatable. I'd say that if the US can give a founding date of July 4, 1776, then the CSA was comparably a nation, but the consensus of RS is that it probably wasn't a nation.
  • "the important military installation" important in what sense? According to whom?
    • Removed "important". I can't really explain that without going down too much of a rabbit trail.
  • "The fort surrendered on the next day" maybe an ENGVAR thing but I don't require "on" in this sentence.
    • Removed
  • "the important St. Louis Arsenal" similar to above, important in what sense and according to whom?
    • Nixed important. Importance was really on a local thing for that one
  • "Major General[b] Sterling Price" awkward, I would move to end of sentence and expand footnote to a proper sentence.
    • Done
  • "12-pounder Napoleon cannon" previously referred to as a "field gun"... Is there a difference between a "cannon" and a "field gun"?
    • Went with field gun. A field gun is a specific type of cannon
  • "defeat at the hands of Lyon, this time at the Battle of Boonville. The defeat at Boonville" repetitive.
    • Blended the two sentences together
  • " of his command, under the command of" likewise.
    • Rephrased
  • " Ben McCulloch" looks like his common name was Benjamin.
    • Fixed
  • " to full-strength" no need to hyphenate.
    • Removed hyphen
  • " 24-pounder howitzers" again red linked here, I doubt an "s" would ever be in the title anyway.
    • Moved the s to after the link. It's probably a notable cannon type; it's just an underwritten area.
  • " fighting[2] as" awkward ref placement, just end of sentence would be fine I'm sure.
    • I've actually rewritten the sentence so that the ref now follows a comma after a clause break, so it should be fine now.
  • " Corinth, Mississippi found" comma after Mississippi.
    • Added
  • "May 28[22] " awkward placement again.
    • Moved to end of sentence
  • " Iuka, Mississippi as" comma after Mississippi again. See MOS:GEOCOMMA.
    • Added. I always forget these.
  • "E. O. C. Ord " why not just "Edward Ord" per his article?
    • Personally, I get why the article is at Edward, not E. O. C. for simplicity, but the majority of ACW sources call use E. O. C. Ord. I prefer to stick with the nomenclature used by the sources. It's like P. G. T. Beauregard, sometimes the initials are just used more commonly.
  • "fought on September 19, Landis' Battery fought ..." fought, fought... repetitive.
    • Reworded to avoid the first usage
  • "had escaped from Iuka.[23] ... The escape from Iuka " repetitive.
    • Rephrased the second usage
  • I guess if you decide to go "Landis's" then you need to check for things like "Rosecrans' " as well...
    • Yeah. Changed Landis' and Rosecrans'. Did not change states' rights and four days', as those seem to be standard usage
  • " to Jackson, Mississippi for repairs." comma after Mississippi.
    • Added
  • "Due to one fort which held out," -> "One fort held out so..."
    • Done
  • John S. Bowen is overlinked.
    • Removed the second one
  • "After Port Gibson, the Confederates ... After Port Gibson, Grant was ..." repetitive.
    • Replaced the second one with Meanwhile
  • "By this time,[49]" awkward and odd, you've said nothing, move this to the end.
    • Moved this to before the NPS ref in the middle of the sentence.
  • "10[1] or 13" ditto.
    • I actually like this, as it makes it clear which source the different numbers are from. I'll change it if you have really strong feelings about it, though.
  • "15 were the result of battle, while six" MOSNUM, comparable items either all words or all numbers.
    • Spelled out fifteen

That's all I have, FWIW I'll claim WikiCup points for the review. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 18:48, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Aza24[edit]

  • Note to coords, I'm a non-expert here Aza24 (talk) 05:08, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looking at the extensive comments given above, these may be nitpicky, so take what you will:
  • This one may be just me (so feel free not to implement) but the "The unit may have suffered the capture of two cannons during the battle." might work better if combined with the previous sentence ("...at the Battle of Big Black River Bridge, during which two cannons may have been captured."
    • Done
  • This also may just be me "especially after (anti-slavery/northerner?) Abraham Lincoln was elected president..." – I know it's somewhat explained later but an "identifier" here might make it clearer to those very unfamiliar with the subject
    • Used abolitionist. Is that clear enough?
  • I notice that the background doesn't actually ever say anything like "The Northern states then formed the Union"
    • They didn't really specifically form it. They were just kinda what didn't succeed, and called their army the Union Army.
  • "Shortly after Fort Sumter was attacked" is implied (and redundant) since you just discussed Fort Sumter, would stick with "Shortly after" or "Shortly after the attack"
    • Done
  • The last paragraph in background has four sentences that begin with "On (date)..."; "However..."; "On (date)..."; and "On (date)..." – the on dates here get redundant – try and rephrase at least one, preferably one of the last two that are consecutive
    • Rephrased the last one and the however.
  • "It has been suggested that" – do we know who suggested... a historian I'm assuming?
    • The source isn't particularly over who exactly thinks it, so I went with "Archaeological evidence suggests ..."
  • Is it known how many officers were elected?
    • Unfortunately, not that I've seen.
  • "During the ensuing Battle of Iuka, which took place on September 19, Landis's Battery" may flow better as "During the ensuing Battle of Iuka on September 19, Landis's Battery"
    • Done
  • "Landis's Battery's two howitzers were sent to join the blocking force" – to me this sounds like only the howitzers were sent but I'm assuming members of the Battery were as well since there were casualties?
    • Added that the crews went as well.
  • I'm confused was the "one member of the battery was murdered" not killed in battle?
    • Not a combat death. Source doesn't specify exactly what happened, but probably a camp quarrel.
  • These are all minor comments of course, the article is in great shape. Lol, the biggest issue I see is that you use "Landis's" but the article is named "Landis'" – surely one should be picked and standardized? Aza24 (talk) 05:08, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Aza24: - Thanks for taking a look at this. I've replied to all above. Landis's is the correct form, and the title will be moved, but not until after this FAC is closed, so I don't screw things up. Hog Farm Bacon 14:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes I agree that waiting to move makes sense and "abolitionist" is by far the appropriate term – I have no idea why that didn't occur to me. Anyways, all my comments have been fully addressed or implemented, I'm happy to support this article's promotion. Aza24 (talk) 18:55, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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