Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/White Stork/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 01:20, 16 April 2011 [1].

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White Stork

White Stork (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/White Stork/archive1

Nominator(s): Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:23, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

This was an epic WikiProject Birds collaboration which alot of people (Snowmanradio, Shyamal, MeegsC, Jomfbleak, Focus) helped out along the way (and any are welcome to officially add their name as a co-nominator). I wasn't that interested to start with, but got more interested the more I read...and I got to get some psychology/psychiatry material in it too :) It got an extremely thorough working over at GA (thanks Thompsma!), and I have tidied it up some and done a little buffing since. Anyway, have at it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:23, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Image review

• File:WhiteStorkMap.svg - what is the base map for this image? Is it made by the same author, or was it taken from somewhere (ex. Commons)?

According to the file's description: "Base map modified, cropped from File:WorldMap.svg"

• File:Ciconia_ciconia.png - what is the author's date of death? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:45, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

According to this obituary, he was still alive in 1943, (when an egg collection was left "in his hands"), so this may need to be removed. MeegsC | Talk 23:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Any more information on this? If he was alive in 1943, PD-old does not apply. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:46, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I've removed it. I suspect some 19th century old book will have an illustration somewhere. It doesn't add a huge amount to the article anyway. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:56, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

It's public domain in the United States (see {{PD-US-1923-abroad}}), so it can be on Wikipedia, but not on Commons, where I've nominated it for deletion. It appears to be the only image of a white stork egg we have, but doesn't add much as Casliber pointed out, and similar ones should be very easy to find. —innotata 18:25, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Source review—Currently working with the nominator to make the source formatting is consistent. Will report back here when finished. Sasata (talk) 16:22, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I think we've covered everything but for a couple of page numbers from books that I wasn't the one who added. I'll chase them to see what I can do. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:47, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I've made an additional number of minor tweaks, and am now satisfied with the source formatting. I think the sources are appropriately scholarly and reliable. Sasata (talk) 03:05, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments moved to to talk. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:21, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

• Support per the discussions above and the changes made. I enjoyed the article each time I read it, which is a good sign! Carcharoth (talk) 03:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

• Refs: effort to link to PDFs impressive. I went through and added some missing DOIs, an ISBN; it would be good to double check that there are none still missing. Ref 110 (W Post) needs an accessdate? All PDF links probably need |format=PDF for consistency, not all do at the moment. Maybe add OCLC for refs 119, 123, 128 (usual practice for pre-ISBN books)? Maybe link to wikisource for Jung? ISBNs: mixture of hyphenated and unhyphentated, a little inconsistent - I have a script that can do hyphenation on all of them, if desired. Rjwilmsi 12:07, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

• I'd be thankful for hyphenating the isbns, and see waht else to add. I'll be on and off today. wikisource for jung is a good idea. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:21, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Lead balancing: I do not see any material in the lead that summarizes Parasites and diseases. The lead should mention which animals (if any) prey upon the White Stork. Also, is there a typo or missing word in "(north to Estonia)"? I can't figure out what it's supposed to mean. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 02:08, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

errr, it's pretty well an apex predator I would have thought, but I will see what I can find. Will think of what/how to summarise something from Parasites and diseases section. added more pests to lead Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:31, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I still have no idea what "breed in the warmer parts of Europe (north to Estonia)" means. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 11:54, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

dunno, maybe I was just thinking of summer. Can't really call Poland or Estonia a "warmer part of Europe", though Spain is. I have removed it as it is an overgeneralisation and not useful. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps I wasn't clear: I don't understand what "north to Estonia" means. Is it a typo of "north of Estonia"? --Cryptic C62 · Talk 16:34, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Comments: Excellent article on a commonly identified species! Here are my comments:

• "distal end" should probably be explained.

linked to Anatomical_terms_of_location#Proximal_and_distal. A bit wordy, did muse on linking to wiktionary definition (if there was one) for a more precise link Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

• decline due to changes in agricultural practices... can this be explained?

added " (principally the draining of wetlands and conversion of meadows to crops such as maize)" after it. Other issues that are more modern are mentioned at the end of the para. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

• link "climate warming"

linked to Global warming Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:32, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

• "The red colour of the beak and legs..." – This sentence doesn't follow from the previous sentence. I wonder if it would be best to simply split the paragraph...

That sentence has driven me nuts in trying to figure out what to do. It doesn't sit well in either paragraph. I could place it in the description section but if I leave it as a single sentence it looks odd too... Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:32, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

To be honest, when I read the description section the first time, I almost expected to read something about this. So maybe the description section is the best place for it. – VisionHolder « talk » 23:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Done. Slots in nicely. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:03, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Three young birds on their stick nest built on a man-made platform in Poland" – In my opinion, this caption would be better if it simply focused on man-made platforms and their significance in conservation.

Good point, rejigged caption. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

The new caption reads "A man-made platform in Poland built for stork nesting as a conservation measure". I wrote the original caption after reading the reference on platforms and it seems that the primary motivation for providing storks with platforms is to protect electric power lines and the power supply rather than conservation, so I think that the new caption has the wrong emphasis. The article explains the rationale for building platforms. Is there any evidence for building platforms as a conservation measure? Also, the new caption does not mention the juvenile storks at all, which are well worth mention being the only images of young storks in the article. Most of the article including the captions were carefully considered for the GA review and I think that quick amendments could introduce regressions. Snowman (talk) 21:04, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

One of the sources I read detailed how White Storks get electrocuted on power lines, which was another reason for elevating and making nest sites away from them. I realise now that the photo has nice examples of immature plumage in it and is worth mentioning in the caption. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Otherwise, an excellent, detailed article. Well done!

Support: Minus that one tweak which I'm sure you'll remedy, I think this article more than merits FA status. – VisionHolder « talk » 23:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Dabs & links: One disambig link ("Chernobyl") that needs to be fixed. Three of the links redirect to different domains and one reports as "timed out", but I opened it just fine. – VisionHolder « talk » 01:22, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

done Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:01, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Looks good now. – VisionHolder « talk » 12:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Support with comments - First of all, congratulations on such an easy-to-read nice page. I've really enjoyed reading through it. I have a few comments:

• "Routes" section - "An experiment with young birds raised in captivity in Kaliningrad and released in the absence of wild storks to show them the way showed that they appeared to have an instinct to fly south, although the scatter in direction was large." - a bit repetitious with "show" and "showed"

2nd "showed" --> "revealed" Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:30, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Breeding and lifespan" - mentions that the parents sometimes kill the weakest offspring; the next paragraph mentions the weakest might be killed in the case of food shortage; repeated again in the next sentence, and then again mentioned in "Storks and childbirth" section. Seemed a bit repetitious to me and I was wondering if infanticide can be combined together somehow.

I managed to rejig the two segments in the "Breeding and lifespan" section. I was fascinated by the folklore, but it seems the writer was unaware that this was a real phenomenon. Unfortunately there is no source combining the two. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:36, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I thought it might be difficult, but what you've rejigged is much better. The folklore is fascinating - one of the reasons I know of storks. Also, I once lived in an apartment that had a window facing a nest - I think they're wonderful. Anyway thanks - looks good. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 02:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Parasites and diseases" - suggest combining the two smallish paras re West Nile virus

done. I think they were split by mistake. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Suggest delinking Earth and linking Juno, Belarus, and maybe Jung and Freud.

ok, done those Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Overall, really well-done. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Comments Well-written article. Here's some suggestions: Sasata (talk) 16:46, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

• suggested links for lead: subspecies, plumage, clutch, Least Concern, reintroduction

all linked Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• courtship display, scapular, Iberian peninsula (and that p should be capitalized, no?), bird migration, Bikaner, Tirunelveli

all linked. No place to link scapular so will look on wikt or make something. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

NB: Nothing on wikt - hmm...Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• bird ringing should be linked earlier

aha! took me a while to figure that one out Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "and further study of the Indian population has been called for." -> "has been requested".

--> is required Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• link throat pouch, alarm call, threat display

done Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "or on purpose built man-made platforms." I think purpose-built needs a hyphen, but you may want to reword to avoid consecutive hyphenated constructions

I can live with the two hyphens in consecutive word pairs...I think it is the simplest way of conveying. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• unlink church

done Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Nest change is often related to a change in the pairing and these are more common in the younger birds." To what does "these" refer, nest change or a change in pairing?

the change. clarified now though a teeny bit repetitive :/ Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• link intestinal parasite, Saxonia-Anhalt, Brandenburg, antibody, seropositive, Near Threatened; persistent pesticide to Persistent organic pollutants (?)

sounds good. these done Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:11, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "the once sizable Danish population declined to just five pairs in 1995." need a citation for this end-of-paragraph sentence.
• "The Hebrew term is chasidah …" Is this the term for the stork, or for the "soul" referred to in the prior sentence?

aah, the stork. clarified now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:49, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Some of the earliest understanding on bird migration were initiated by an interest in White Storks, particularly due to examples, known in German as Pfeilstorch ("arrow storks"), that were found in Europe with African arrows embedded in their bodies." Sentence sounds clunky

split with semicolon and trimmed Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Storks have little fear of humans in places where they are not disturbed" I fear disturbed humans as well.

changed to "Storks have little fear of humans if not disturbed" - could make it "If not disturbed, storks have little fear of humans..." if you think that makes it less ambiguous. Hard to make it more unambiguous yet not clunky... Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• link national bird

done Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Storks were also held to only live in countries having a republican form of government." When? Who?

It's on the next page in the url link. No further information is available, although I added " In the 19th century..." Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

• caption: "Supposed filial virtues of the stork" who is the author, where is this from?

added odd 1831 moral education book and URL Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:46, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.