Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wrestle Kingdom 9/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 03:18, 25 January 2016 [1].

Wrestle Kingdom 9[edit]

Nominator(s): starship.paint ~ KO 07:07, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a 2015 Japanese professional wrestling show, the premier annual event of NJPW, and was praised by critics. Jointly worked on by Ribbon Salminen and myself, we've started, DYK-ed, GA-ed and peer reviewed this article. This is the second attempt at FAC - the previous one had relatively few comments.

To encourage activity, I'm willing to exchange reviews for anyone I haven't already given help to! starship.paint ~ KO 07:07, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Wrestlinglover
Addressed
  • Lead
    • Make the above sentence and the rest its own paragraph. Lead is so small for this type of article and event. According to WP:LEADLENGTH, anything above 15000 characters should have 2 or 3 paragraphs. This has 24204 characters. It leaves me unsatisfied to the overview.
    • "Wrestle Kingdom 9 was a professional wrestling event produced by New Japan Pro Wrestling (NJPW) which took place on January 4, 2015, at the Tokyo Dome in Tokyo, Japan." - Remove the coma. Was the event only called Wrestle Kingdom 9, because I know previous events add extra to it? Was this not a pay per view as well? Might as well include that in this section. Might as well follow the format on some of the TNA articles I do. Put promotion after NJPW to inform a reader it is a promotion/company and not a large organization or governing body like NWA, etc.
    • "It was the 24th January 4 Dome Show. The event featured 10 professional wrestling matches, with an additional match on the pre-show." - Change to "It was the 24th January 4 Dome Show and first event on the 2015 NJPW event schedule. The event featured ten professional wrestling matches and one pre-show match, six of which were for championships."
    • "The event, attended by 36,000 fans, received positive reviews from critics." - Might as well include something regarding these critics. I've always disliked saying it received positive reviews from critics. It seems like a judgment call from the editor which I don't feel is very encyclopedia.
  • Background
    • "of WWE's WrestleMania." - Change to "of WWE's WrestleMania pay-per-view event" since readers have no idea what that may exactly is.
    • "Wrestle Kingdom 9, promoted as the "largest wrestling show in the world outside of the United States", was the 24th January 4 Dome Show[3] (although some previous shows have had other names).[4]" - Move reference to end and remove the parenthesis. Change to "Wrestle Kingdom 9 was promoted as the "largest wrestling show in the world outside of the United States" and was the 24th January 4 Dome Show, although previous events were held under different titles/names (your choice)."
    • Something I learned in a previous FAC, all dates should feature a specific code in them. I'm not sure why but some policy on the way the article is shown on devices and for special readers. The code is "& nbsp ;. See Bound for Glory IV on how it is used properly.
    • "Wrestle Kingdom 9 was announced on August 10, 2014" - Sorry it seems like I'm hitting every single statement. I try to do indepth reviews to make the articles better. I know the issue of working on something so long and so much it gets old. Here I'm thinking the date and venue should be attached. Why? Because the lead mentions it and the previous link to the dome show is nice, but not enough. What I'm saying is readers might not really know what Dome means and if you have to state what the venue is might as well just say the date. Change to "Wrestle Kingdom 9 was announced on August 10, 2014 to take place at the Tokyo Dome on January 4, 2015."
    • "GFW Presents New Japan Pro Wrestling's Wrestle Kingdom 9" - Not sure why this is italicized. It was a PPV not a TV show. I don't believe it should be.
    • "Total Nonstop Action Wrestling (TNA)." → "the Total Nonstop Action Wrestling (TNA) promotion."
    • "Chromecast, Xbox 360 or Xbox One (three of the four most common devices listed as compatible with the application)." → "Chromecast, Xbox 360 or Xbox One; three of the four most common devices listed as compatible with the application).
    • "the Wrestling Observer Newsletter" → "The Wrestling Observer Newsletter" - per WP:THE
      • ummm actually I'm disagree with this. As per f4wonline.com - their name doesn't include The. Compare [2] and [3]. starship.paint ~ KO 09:04, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • WP:THE summarized basically says that anything that you would normally have to say The before should have it included in the title. We don't says wrestling observer newsletter, we say the wrestling observer newsletter. It is better for flow. Plus the is before it in the article which goes to show that WP:THE is suitable for this situation. While the official name may not be that way, it still connects to this issue at hand.--WillC 21:37, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • I also disagree. Everything I'm reading on WP:THE to me says not to have it capitalized. This doesn't meet either of the conditions on the top of the page and in fact we have examples of "the" not being capitalized in front of "Wrestling Observer Newsletter" in running text (here, here and here). Also, it is not in the official name as Starship noted. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 22:06, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • Similar examples would be the Chicago Sun-Times and the New York Post. starship.paint ~ KO 02:21, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
            • I still disagree because it is a proper name and you proved my point on the by automatically putting it before your examples. If The wasn't needed then you wouldn't have put it, thus meeting the requirements positioned by WP:THE. But since y'all expanded it, I'll concede the point this time.--WillC 07:15, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Storylines
    • "Wrestle Kingdom 9 featured professional wrestling matches including wrestlers from preexisting scripted feuds and other storylines. The wrestlers, playing faces (heroes) or heels (villains), followed a series of events culminating in a match (or match series)." → "Wrestle Kingdom 9 featured ten professional wrestling matches and one pre-show match that involved different wrestlers from pre-existing scripted feuds and storylines. Wrestlers portrayed heels (villains), faces (heroes), or less distinguishable characters in the scripted events that built tension and culminated in a wrestling match or series of matches."
    • "his" - possession of title again. Company owners, wrestlers don't. The days of wrestlers having to put down deposits on the belts are over.
    • "number-one" - Never really liked this hyphenated. Change sentence to "Okada became the number one contender to the title on August 10, 2014 by winning the G1 Climax."
    • Add NJPW before Power Struggle.
    • "performed a German suplex on him and challenged him" - Just say he attacked him. The move adds nothing to the statement. Not like he broke his arm or powerbombed him through a flaming table. It is a suplex. "assaulted Nakamura and challenged him for the title;"
    • "A previous singles match between Nakamura and Ibushi during the 2013 G1 Climax was ranked the "Best Bout of the Year" by Tokyo Sports." - Why is this important? This is storylines. Better suited for the production section. Even then I'm unsure why quality is important unless it was part of the promotion. Taker/HBK had the quality as an important factor so quality is not unheard of, is this a cultural thing? I'm rusty on my puroresu. Also, is the IC belt not contested by all wrestlers cause I'm curious regarding the heavyweight sentence prior.
      • Changed the first part. Umm @Ribbon Salminen: do you know more about the heavyweight thingy? starship.paint ~ KO 07:16, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • The Intercontinental title is a heavyweight title, no junior heavyweights ever make challenges for it. Sombra was technically a junior heavyweight, but was also an international talent intended to put over the "intercontinental" aspect of the title. Here Tokyo Sports lists the Heavyweight, Tag Team, Intercontinental and NEVER titles as NJPW's four heavyweight titles. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 13:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Previous IWGP Heavyweight Champion A.J. Styles (of the Bullet Club group) and fellow top contender Tetsuya Naito were booked together at Wrestle Kingdom 9. During the 2014 G1 Climax (when Styles was IWGP heavyweight champion), Naito pinned him in a non-title tournament match but did not have a title shot before Styles lost to Tanahashi.[22] Since Styles did not receive a rematch with Tanahashi, it was theorized that the Wrestle Kingdom 9 winner would be the top contender." - Remove Bullet Club stuff, mention that in later paragraph. Remove Styles as champion note, change to "Naito pinned then IWGP Heavyweight Champion Styles" Theorized? Part of storyline or is this media based?
    • " by defeating the Bullet Club's Anderson and Gallows (the champions) in a non-title match at NJPW's 42nd-anniversary event." → "by defeating the Bullet Club's IWGP Tag Team Champions Anderson and Gallows in a non-title match at NJPW's 42nd-anniversary event." - Add NJPW before Invasion Attack and Wrestle Kingdom 8.
    • "where Anderson and Gallows defended their title" → "where Anderson and Gallows retained the title" - Explain what the tag team league is also. If it is a tournament, place tournament after it. Simple fix.
    • "Suzuki-gun stable" - jargon, change to group. Spell out KES.
    • Stable again in Bullet Club paragraph.
    • Mention Styles is a member in this paragraph. It covers the subject, best to have it here.
    • "during a Bullet Club post-match beatdown involving popular underdog Tomoaki Honma, NJPW veteran tag team Tencozy (Hiroyoshi Tenzan and Satoshi Kojima) stormed into the ring and drove the Bullet Club away." - Bordering on in universe. I'd change it to "during a Bullet Club post-match assault on Tomoaki Honma, NJPW veteran tag team Tencozy (Hiroyoshi Tenzan and Satoshi Kojima) stormed into the ring to the aid of Honma, driving the Bullet Club away."
    • "Bullet Club would be represented in the match by Bad Luck Fale, Yujiro Takahashi and Jeff Jarrett, making his NJPW ring debut." → "Bad Luck Fale, Yujiro Takahashi and Jeff Jarrett—making his NJPW ring debut—were scheduled to represent the Bullet Club at the event."
    • I'd drop the Junior Tag Title match from the storylines. It is rather pointless. Isn't alot of information.
    • "Hiroshi Tanahashi, who withdrew from the IWGP Heavyweight Championship picture after losing to Okada on October 14, 2013, re-entered the picture on September 21, 2014 by challenging A.J. Styles." - Very odd sentence here. At first I understood it and was about to ignore it but I had questions. If I have questions, I'm expecting other editors/readers to have questions. I say remove the whole information about him having left the picture. Unless you desire to explain the entire history there. That would include Okada defeating him for the title, then losing it to him, then defeating him for it, losing to Styles, then Tanahashi beating Styles. I'd change it to "Hiroshi Tanahashi and Okada have an extensive history of matches for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. The path that led to this match started on September 21, 2014 when Tanahashi challenged the then IWGP Heavyweight Champion A.J. Styles to a title defense. Tanahashi defeated Styles on October 13 at the NJPW King of Pro-Wrestling event to become the IWGP Heavyweight Champion. As a result, this slated the Wrestle Kingdom 9 main event to be the seventh match between Okada and Tanahashi since February 2012 and their second January 4 Dome Show main event after Wrestle Kingdom 7 on January 4, 2013." This helps clear up the paragraph.
  • Results
    • "Singles match which could only end by knockout, submission or referee stoppage" - Use English coma. knockout, submission, or referee stoppage.
    • This table is fine. No redirects. Only issue is the match titles but that is editor preference. You know, I created the section for multiple man teamed matches. It did not exist and everyone was just linking to the article with no section to explain. I created it for the hell of it and now everyone links to it. I had no idea how much that would be used and now looking back on it, it is a very odd feeling.
    • What is with the random references in the New Japan rumble. They are just sitting there. Place them in the table.
    • Are Tanaka and Komatsu notable? If they aren't anytime soon, no need for the links. Per WP:RED. Kabuki is a redirect.
      • They are automatically linked because of the sortnames function in the table. starship.paint ~ KO 12:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Make mdashes in the table: ;mdash
    • Table is done well. Like its ability and function.
  • See also
  • References
    • Move all mid-sentence references to the end of the sentence. It disrupts the flow of the article.
    • Look fine. Accepting. May look into them more later.
  • Background
    • "Jeff Jarrett's Global Force Wrestling, which it approached about bringing the event to a new market." → "Jeff Jarrett's Global Force Wrestling promotion to bringing the event to a new market." - move ref to the end
      • This has not been addressed.--WillC 21:37, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • "That day NJPW announced a partnership with Jeff Jarrett's Global Force Wrestling promotion to bringing the event to a new market" doesn't sound right to me. Am I missing something here? リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 22:10, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • It is clearer and you are removing words and getting to the point faster. Instead of adding "which it approached" you are just cutting it out and saying a partnership to bring the product to a new market. The other is going around the point in an unnecessary fashion.--WillC 07:15, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Event
    • "The pre-show featured one match, the New Japan Rumble. Tiger Mask and Yuji Nagata began the match, with new wrestlers each minute." - List all participants in the first sentence. "The New Japan Rumble took place on the pre-show featuring...." "with new wrestlers entering each minute" Explain the rules of this match before you go in-depth on what is happening. Make the order more simple. This is an overview, not a play-by-play. I don't need to know Tonga entered 11th to eliminate someone. Makes me wonder when the others were and then it becomes a clusterfuck. Say Tonga got the first elimination and Kabuki got DQed.
    • "Yoshi-Hashi threw Tonga over the top rope to leave himself and Nagata in the match, won by Nagata with a bridging belly-to-back suplex at 26 minutes and 9 seconds" - Poorly structured resulting in poor flow. Change to "Yoshi-Hashi threw Tonga over the top rope to leave himself and Nagata in the match. Nagata won the match by slamming Hashi against the mat with bridging belly-to-back suplex and covering for the pinfall at 26 minutes and 9 seconds." - Let the reader know what is going on. It is a trait that comes with having to think of the article as a non-wrestling fan. We know what is going on. Someone who is reading this to learn has absolutely no idea what is happening. This was on the pre-show, so why is it included in the undercard section if it is not part of the event?
  • Undercard
    • I'll come back to this section. I want to cover the rest of the article. This seems like a bit of work for me to covering everything indepth.
  • Main event matches
    • Same as above
  • Reception
    • Something I had to learn the hardway. Get ready for people to ask "who" in regards to "reportedly." So here it is, who has reported these figures?
    • Why is the number of subscribers important to this event? 20,000 is nice but doesn't mean that many watched the show. That sentence is better for the Background section because it builds the streaming site.
    • Just say four out of five stars.
    • The Wrestling Observer Newsletter
    • Guessing Meltzer did the review of the show. Note that Meltzer is stating this stuff.
    • "wrestleview.com" → "WrestleView.com" - Normally I'd say this isn't important but since the review is of the Japanese stream it has some significance.
    • I'd question Pro Wrestling Dot Net being noted but Jason Powell writes for various sites and is becoming a name so I'm fine with it. Plus he is discussing Ross and Striker. Consider removing it though. I guess it is supposed to be a reliable source now but still that large of a name.
    • State that Paste is a magazine.
    • "The event, ending with "a broken Kazuchika Okada shambling tearfully back towards the locker room ... made the moment feel real, confirming that Okada isn't just a great athlete but a better actor than most who step into the ring, and elevating the entire scripted, choreographed display into something beyond a sport"." → "Martin commented on the ending of the show, stating that a "broken Kazuchika Okada shambling tearfully back towards the locker room made the "moment feel real" which displayed that "Okada isn't just a great athlete but a better actor than most who step into the ring, and elevating the entire scripted, choreographed display into something beyond a sport."
    • "In his review, Vaughn Johnson of philly.com wrote:" "In his review, Vaughn Johnson of the Philadelphia Media Network through philly.com wrote:"
    • Periods go within quotation marks.
  • Aftermath
    • The Ross comments would be better in reception. He is discussing the quality of their performance.
    • Where did Styles pin Tanahashi at?
      • It's the "Raw after WrestleMania", a house show named "New Year Dash!!", but is that really important? Also, the current source calls it "New Year's Dash", so we would have to get another primary source to get the correct name. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 19:30, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Anymore about Okada? Three losses and that is it? He is champion now. Must be more.
    • " (in which Ishii defeated Tomoaki Honma for the now-vacant title)." → ",in which Ishii defeated Tomoaki Honma for the now-vacant title."
    • "Wrestle Kingdom 9 broke Yuji Nagata's streak of consecutive January 4 Dome Show main cards at 21." → "Wrestle Kingdom 9 broke Yuji Nagata's streak of consecutive January 4 Dome Show appearances at 21 by being featured on the pre-show instead of the main card."
    • Split this paragraph. It covers multiple subjects that shouldn't be connected. One for Nagata and one for the rest.
      • I disagree. The subjects are all interlinked. Nakamura's aftermath requires Nagata and Goto. Goto's aftermath requires Ibushi, who was Nakamura's original opponent anyway. starship.paint ~ KO 13:05, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • What is the Japan Cup?
    • Who is Goto? There was no mention of him and then suddenly there he is. He lost the Cup and then suddenly gets a title shot. Explain how that came to be.
      • The ex-tag champion. He made it to the tournament finals, which is mentioned. starship.paint ~ KO 13:05, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Add NJPW prior to event names and event after event names. Lets the reader know they are events and not just shows.
    • " its takeover of the promotion" - What is this the NWO?
    • Why is there a hyphen in tag team?
    • Drop last paragraph. It is trivia information for the most part. Why is Koslov's next to last appearance important to this event? It is not. Them winning the titles has nothing to do with this event. Might as well say the weather was sunny the next day.
  • External links
    • Not connected to this article but just a request. Can someone update the template to include links to ALL Dome shows. Only 2 listed is very odd. Like the job was only half done.
    • Any other links like to site covering this specific event or in demand links? GFW website would be nice as well and anything they have.
    • Categories look fine.
    • Hidden categories look good too.
  • Images
    • Poster's fair use is alright. Could be a bit better. I had an featured image editor look over a couple posters in the past. Gave me a really good image rationale for posters. I use it in all of my posters if it is for a GA or an FA. See File:Bound for Glory IV.jpg to use it.
    • Alt text in poster is wrong.
    • Alt text for Jarrett is close but you don't have to go that indepth. Just say what you see. "Jarrett in a pink shirt standing outside of an event."
    • Not sure Jarrett is the best image for that section. You got an image of the event like the entrance ramp? How about the image of Ross and Striker being used here instead? Connects to the information.
    • Okada image is fine. Alt text could be shorted to just "Okada wearing a golden garland in wrestling gear standing in a wrestling ring."
    • Drop the Honma image. Not needed and not enough room since it is conflicting with the sections. Doesn't provide a clear, cut, concise, and nice article. Formatting is important.
    • Redragon image is fine. Alt text will do. Captain could use some cutting. Just say they defended the title at the event. Put front and back in brackets instead [front] and [back].
    • Nakamura image is fine. Just say he defended the title at Wrestle Kingdom. Distinguishing which main event is pointless. Alt text could use some cutting on description of title and what he is wearing.
    • Move the Ross/Striker image to Background. Caption being "Jim Ross (left) and Matt Striker (right) were chosen to commentate the event by Global Force Wrestling.
    • Can either enlarge the Tanahasi image or replace it with File:Hiroshi tanahashi NJPW.JPG. Both work and both have benefits. One has a clear view of his face. Other involves the belt.
    • Ibushi image is unneeded. Too many images hurt articles. Enlarge the bullet club picture. Alt is fine, the caption should be changed to them just winning titles at the next event.
I said I'd review this last time and never got to it. I plan to review it this time around. I'll complete this sometime during this next week. I'm in the middle of finals right now so time is constrained.--WillC 01:46, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks so much! It can wait until after your finals, really. starship.paint ~ KO 11:30, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Starship.paint: Alright, here is most of the review. I did not cover the event section. I will once this stuff is fixed. Now that I've covered almost everything I want to do a few disclaimers. When I review articles, I go in-depth. I look at every word, every sentence, every image, and some times the source code. The article isn't bad. It is very good. I'm just making sure it is as close to perfect as possible. It takes time and patience to do it. One reason I don't review as much anymore. Also, you reviewed Hard Justice (2008) for me not long ago. We had alot of back and forth on changing stuff there. I'm expecting the samething here. I want that. I feel reviewing should be a discussion, not a dictation. I did not review this differently than anything based on any disagreements on that article. I state this because I did not expect to find this many issues as I did and I don't want it to seem like I'm being a dick. I wish to help get these issues fixed. Once we cover everything I've listed, I'll cover the event. The main reason is because just skimming the event I'm going to have questions and I don't want to double what I already have.--WillC 13:09, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment -- Sorry but we still seem a long way from consensus to promote after some six weeks so I'll be archiving this shortly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:17, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hmm, I was not expecting this. I figured since this was basic discussion and most of the issues were resolved we still had time. Then again, I was the only one reviewing. I'll finish the review on the next nomination, if there is one.--WillC 12:15, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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