Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Chris Brown discography/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by The Rambling Man 17:08, 16 November 2010 [1].

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Chris Brown discography

Chris Brown discography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/Chris Brown discography/archive1
• Featured list candidates/Chris Brown discography/archive2

• Featured list removal candidates/Chris Brown discography/archive1

Nominator(s): Candyo32 16:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because after making massive overhaul of the article (from this to the current version) removing fancruft and adding reliable sources, and then converting to the new discography style, I believe it now meets FL criteria. Candyo32 16:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments

• Prose

• Brown debuted in 2005 with his self-titled debut. is repetitive (by the way, the single Run It! was released months before the album appeared)

Done. Also It says "the album's lead single" signifying Run It! came before the album.

So what's your point? Lead single says "the lead single will often be released before the rest of the actual album ... This is not always the case". Note often and not always the case. And where it says "the album's lead single" is three sentences after. So Brown debuted in 2005 with his self-titled album is still wrong. Matthewedwards :  Chat 

Done but instead of saying he debuted in the album, just saying it was released.

• The album reached number two on the Billboard 200 in the US charted in the top-ten of most other music markets. sentence is missing a conjunction

Done

• Internationally, the single either charted at the top or inside the top ten of most other countries. -- "of most other countries' charts" perhaps? There's definitely a word missing here

Done

Now it's repetitive: Internationally, ... international charts. Matthewedwards :  Chat 

• Chris Brown also spawned the US top-ten singles Which spawn would that be? Even most generous definitions at wikt:Spawn "To generate, bring into being" or "To bring forth in general" don't really work in your favour. An album is inanimate, it can't really do anything other than "include" or "contain".

Done

Wrong tense. Unless the album has been deleted, and all copies sold destroyed, then it "contains". Matthewedwards :  Chat 

Done

• There's punctuation inside the quotemarks of song titles that should be on the outside. "Run It!," "Poppin'." "Gimme That," "Shortie Like Mine," "Say Goodbye,"

I believe that is grammatically incorrect as commas always go inside the quotations.

For speech the American style is fine; these are titles, and Logical punctuation should be followed. See WP:LQ Matthewedwards :  Chat 

Done

• Brown released his second album, Exclusive in 2007. Sentence is missing a comma

Done

• The album's lead single, "Run It!," featuring rapper Juelz Santana, topped the Billboard Hot 100, spending a month atop the chart. and It followed in the steps of its predecessor, reaching the top-ten in several most countries. Please see User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing.

Done.

Not the second sentence. Note also "several most". Matthewedwards :  Chat 

Done now.

• "Exclusive" included the worldwide hits "Kiss Kiss," featuring T-Pain, "With You," and "Forever." Multiple issues

Still grammatically correct as all punctuation is supposed to go inside quotes.

WP:LQ Matthewedwards :  Chat 

Done

1. Violates WP:ITALIC/MOS:TITLE.

Done

1. 9 countries ≠ Worldwide.

I know this is WP:OTHERSTUFF, but worldwide is used for a song that charts in the US and elsewhere because "international" means outside the home country and this is not the case.

"Worldwide" means wikt:Worldwide. If this usage exists elsewhere then it is also incorrect. 9 countries is not "spanning the world" Matthewedwards :  Chat 

See comments about the usage of "worldwide" below.

Never mind, Worldwide is removed.

1. Sentence is written in the wrong tense, unless Exclusive has been deleted and all copies destroyed.

Done

1. More misplaced punctuation. One comma shouldn't even be there.

Done

• "In additon, the album spawned the top five US R&B single "Take You Down," international top-thiry song "Superhuman." as well as "Wall to Wall." Multiple issues with this sentence.

Done

1. No, no, no it didn't spawn anything.

Done

1. Where is Additon? Did it "spawn" anywhere else?

Done

1. Written in the wrong tense again

Done

1. Punctuation are in the wrong places

Done

1. What is a thiry?

Done

1. Does US R&B single mean the US R&B chart or is it just informing the reader that the single is R&B?

Means US R&B chart

It's not clear. Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

1. Is as well as supposed to be a different sentence? It needs a qualifier because by itself the sentence As well as "Wall to Wall". means nothing. Also, per the common Sentence case used in the English language, a new sentence must begin with a capital letter

Done

1. If it's not supposed to be a new sentence, and is part of the previous, then "In additon ... as well as" is repetitive

Done

• During the Exclusive era, Brown also recorded a Christmas single, "This Christmas." per era, I don't think this is the right word to use. Per wikt:era, it most probably isn't an era either. More misplaced punct.

Done.

• the worldwide hit, "No Air," a duet with Jordin Sparks -- I'd hardly call 51 a hit. So "worldwide" is wrong.

Worldwide is just a general term. I was just trying to cut down on listing every single chart position. Do you have any suggestions?

Never mind, it is removed.

• the "Shawty Get Loose" doesn't need an article

I'm confused at what you mean right here

I see it's been fixed, but "the" is an article Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

• In 2009, Brown's fourth album, Graffiti was released, preceded by the lead single "I Can Transform Ya" featuring Lil Wayne and Swizz Beatz, which peaked within the top-twenty of several countries. Sentence needs rewriting because it has two subjects. First the album, then the single. Which it refers to when it says it peaked within the top 20 is unclear

Done

• Originally a mixtape cut so it was removed from the track-list of the mixtape?

Done

• was Brown's first US R&B number-one since 2006. I'm pretty sure that the R&B song "Kiss Kiss" got to number 1 in 2007

Meaning US R&B chart

It's not clear. Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

• Brown is preparing to release his fourth studio album, F.A.M.E. in early 2010. He'd better get a move on -- it's nearly 2011. Or the article is completely out of date.

Done

• List of non-singles in one of the captions is poor word choice

Done

• Lede

• The criteria says the Lede "introduces the subject and defines the scope and inclusion criteria." All I read is an overview of his recording career, not his discography. What's the difference, you might ask? Well read The Beatles discography and compare. I don't expect it to have quite the same format or anything, but the Lede here is still missing crucial discography-related information such as the format of the releases and record label information. There's not a single mention of any kind of certification, but the tables are laden with them. And other than the words "four DVDs" there's not a single other mention of the DVDs. Not a very good introduction of the subject, then. Finally, there's no mention of the 36 music videos that are in the music video table, so the Lede also fails to define the scope and inclusion criteria properly.

The reasoning behind the inclusion is that they really aren't notable. Sort of WP:OTHERSTUFF, but you could more than likely check the lead of every FL discography on Wikipedia and none talk about the music videos. The DVDs aren't mentioned because they didn't chart.

It is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. And it isn't a valid reason for doing or not doing something. Expectations and requirements are fluid, and they're higher today than they were six months ago, so something that was promoted then might not be now. If music videos aren't notable, why are they given in the table? The fact that the DVDs didn't chart is not a reason to ignore them. Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Just like all of the featured singles aren't included because they just aren't notable, I believe the same applies for the DVDs.

• Comprehensive

• As previously mentioned, the scope says nothing about music videos, so in "comprehensively covering the defined scope", it's gone beyond that and covers stuff that the reader cannot put into context
• Since F.A.M.E. hasn't been released, it cannot be a part of a discography. Same for "Ain't Thinkin' Bout You" and Who Is Shad Moss?

Kind of WP:OTHERSTUFF, but Kesha discography and Ciara discography (which were passed not so long ago with the inclusions), both FLs show future releases. "Ain't Thinkin' About You" has been released.

If I'd have noticed in those FLCs, I would have opposed. Chance brought me here instead. I see an unreleased mixtape has crept in, too. Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

• Why are the charts in "As featured artist" different than those in "Singles" and "Albums"?

Because some of the featured singles did not chart at all in some of the markets that his singles and albums did.

So the page is a biased representation of how well his stuff performed? Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

• No listing for Fan of a Fan. Why? It's official and it "spawned" a charting song.

Consensus at WP:Discography was that mixtapes were not be included, but the song was released as a single from the mixtape. So.....

Never mind now included as consensus on WP:DISCOGS was to include tthem.

• Style

• One table is poorly formatted, and it has nothing to do with ACCESS or DISCOGSTYLE. The albums table has an empty, narrow column (approx 7px) at the far right.

I myself notice that but did not know how to get rid of it.

And yet you still nominated it instead of asking for help at WP:TABLES, WP:HELP, WP:DISCOG. Stunning. Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

• File:Chris Brown singing at Brisbane Entertainment Centre 2.jpg -- Source and author are apparently [2]. However, the image is actually located elsewhere on that site, at [3]. What's worse, is it says the source is Wikimedia Commons. Copyright/ownership usage is questionable.

Substituted image.

• References

• Internationally, the single either charted at the top or inside the top ten of most other countries. -- All we can see from the table is that it charted at the top or inside the top ten of 7 other countries. Unless List of countries is grossly incorrect, 7 is not "most other countries" and, assuming there are ≈200 countries, yours is such a bold statement that it needs citing.

Done

• "Exclusive" included the worldwide hits "Kiss Kiss," featuring T-Pain, "With You," and "Forever." Same. 9 countries is not "worldwide"

Worldwide is just a general term. I was just trying to cut down on listing every single chart position. Do you have any suggestions?

Worldwide is just a general term. I was just trying to cut down on listing every single chart position, and thought it woudl fid considering it made the top ten in most worldwide markets. Do you have any suggestions?

Never mind it is now removed

• the worldwide hit, "No Air," a duet with Jordin Sparks -- I'd hardly call 51 a hit, so "worldwide" is wrong. Again, the 8 countries used is a gross misrepresentation of "worldwide"

Worldwide is just a general term. I was just trying to cut down on listing every single chart position. Do you have any suggestions?

Never mind it is now removed

• Refs 16, 31, 45, are formatted incorrectly

16 & 31 fixed, but I can't see why #45 is still showing up like that.

Ask for help at WP:CT Matthewedwards :  Chat  03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

• Walmart and Amazon are companies, and shouldn't be italicised. "Soul Culture Media Ltd. Retrieved 2010-11-14." is a publisher and accessdate, and shouldn't be in italics. ARIA and RIANZ shouldn't be italicised.

Neither Walmart or Amazon are italicized.... Fixed other issues

• What makes ref 61 a RS?

Nothing that I know of, I can bring it up on the noticeboard I suppose, but If you insist on the removal, it can go. By it being a mixtape video, it was covered by most major sources like Rap-Up.

• Either link all the publishers/works in each ref, or link only the first one. There's a mixture right now, such as MTV and VH1 which are linked once, and ARIA and Prometheus which are linked more than once

Done

• Foreign language refs such as 19 need to say they are in a different language
• Why use chartstats for the UK when the Official Charts Company provides it?

I assumed that Chart Stats could be used in the same fashion as TOCC as it can be used in Template:Singlechart.

• For other reviewers: This is far from an in depth ref check. It's just what I noticed on first glance, so they still need looking at.

Oppose Everything besides the Lede and Prose should be easy to address, but FLC is not a substitution for WP:PR, and shouldn't be used as such. This should have gone there before it came here. The prose is far from the "professional standard" required by WP:Featured list criteria#1. Find a good copy editor if you can't write decent English, because that's what's letting this page down. Matthewedwards :  Chat  08:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comments - Lead is totally unsourced, coding error on Studio albums, Ref 16, 31, 45 have coding errors, Swiss is not a language, violates WP:&. How reliable is the TV Realist? Afro (Talk) 15:49, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• Lead doesn't have to be sourced as long as what is said is sourced later in the article. And to be fair, most of it is. Matthewedwards :  Chat  18:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comments

Resolved comments from Adabow (talk · contribs) 02:43, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:*A better image would be one where he is looking toward the camera-ish, there are three here. Done. you have mentioned "twenty-nine singles" twice Done "and charted in the top-ten of most other music markets" - no hyphen in top ten, and how can you say in most other markets - you only have ten charts? Done I don't know if outside the discog matters, but in countries not listed it did not make the top ten.... I does seem to imply that it made top 10 elsewhere. Please rewrite this two-times Platinum → twice Platinum This sounds kind of iffy. What about double Platinum? "topped the Billboard Hot 100, and it spent a month atop the chart" → you have used 'top' twice here - one of them is redundant Done ""Gimme That", feautring Lil Wayne" → "Gimme That", featuring Lil Wayne Done "worldwide hits" - how can you verify this? Stated this because in most charts these songs were either #1 or made the top ten. Any suggestions for other terminology? Just delete 'worldwide' Done and the "Shawty Get Loose" - the "Shawty Get Loose"? Done Where are the mixtapes? They were said to not be included at WP:DISCOGRAPHY. I'm not sure where you're reading from but there seems to be consensus forming at [4] that they are to be included. While this is not a guideline yet, there is nowhere saying not to include them, so I'd put them in, otherwise it fails comprehensiveness Re-added. Australian peaks for "Crawl" and "What Them Girls Like" are unreferenced. Added WTGL, rem Crawl. Names in 'Music videos' table need to be sorted using {{sortname}} I'm confused here. You need to sort by last name, first name (eg Brown, Chris). To use the template you enter (eg) {{sortname|Chris|Brown|Chris Brown (American singer)}} I'm still confused here replace this as their name? Is this supposed to link them? NZ certs need to be referenced to [5], older ones need to link to a specific chart, see WP:GOODCHARTS on how to do this

• Hot 100 only goes up to 100. I'm not sure about R%B Songs...

Can't find the particular discussion at the moment but there is consensus on discogs somewhere where Bubbling 100-125 can be used as Hot 100 extensions.

[6] seems to be divided, but I won't object. If you decide to keep 'em, please put a note saying that they were BU not Hot 100.

Done

"Superhuman" is missing a note. BTW, the note says "...either the Bubbling Under Hot 100 or Bubbling Under Hot 100...". Are both called BU Hot 100?

• I have sorted music video names. Please check that there are no dab/wrong links

Wouldn't this new sorting conflict with WP:OVERLINK

• Why do some music videos have "N/A" director?

Because the music video director is Unknown. And I put "N/A" because Unknown would imply that it is completely unknown who directs the video, while "N/A" would just mean the information is not available or not accessible.

• Why isn't "Better on the Other Side" mentioned (except for videos)?
• Refs 26 + 27 should be in table headers

Adabow (talk · contribs) 01:13, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.