In August 2007, "List of people associated with Jesus College, Oxford" (as it was then called) was given its FL star (see how it looked then). The list kept growing as more names were added, and some other FLs were spun out of it to keep it at a manageable size, making the initial list eventually one that listed alumni only, not academics. However, the main list has kept growing as I keep going through my "to do" list, and it was well inside the 30 longest pages on Wikipedia. To try and keep the main list (still over 200,000 bytes) at a readable size, I've taken out the lawyers, politicians and civil servants to make this list, which I present for your approval. In terms of comprehensiveness, I've exhausted the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography and the Dictionary of Welsh Biography, as well as histories of the college and other sources, and so I'm confident that this is comprehensive. BencherliteTalk 16:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
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Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
"There are still strong links with Wales"-->It (The college?) still has strong links with Wales
"with about 15% of students being from Wales"-->as about 15% of students are Welsh
"A number of Welsh"-->Several Welsh
"such as D. J. Williams who was a co-founder of the Welsh nationalist party Plaid Cymru."-->such as D. J. Williams, a co-founder of the Welsh nationalist party Plaid Cymru.
"A number of prominent judges"-->Several prominent judges
- File:HEA Cotton.jpg needs a source and author.
- File:Ed Davey 01.jpg ditto.
- File:Thomas Johnes of Hafod portrait.jpg Forgive my ignorance, but what is "Peacocks in Paradise"? A pamphlet? Readers need to theoretically have enough information to be able to verify the licensing themselves.
- All removed from the article for now and I will contact the original uploaders for the missing information. BencherliteTalk 11:39, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The Cotton contributor has retired, I've left a question for the Davey contributor and added the missing details about Johnes from the article about him ("Peacocks in Paradise" is a book, it appears). BencherliteTalk 11:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
WP:LAYOUT, external links should come after references. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:48, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sources
- Ref 7 only says "Foster". We need a page number at least. Refs 11 and 12 need page numbers and authors for consistency with other inline book refs.
- Spell out all abbreviations in the ref publishers. Examples only: WBO, ODNB and JCR, but it isn't necessary to spell out BBC.
Also, website names shouldn't be in italics. Put these under the "publisher" parameter in the cite templates.
- Every ODNB reference needs a note that a subscription is required. Denote this by putting this in the citation template:
format=Subscription required
What makes http://www.britannia.com/wales/lit/lit16.html a reliable source? Dabomb87 (talk) 15:48, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Here I've taken the liberty of numbering your points to make it easier to reply to them.
- 1(a) I respectfully disagree that page numbers are needed for Alumni Oxonienses (ref 7) or the Oxford Honours book (was ref 12, now ref 13). The entries in each work are arranged in alphabetical order, so the page number is superfluous to the name of the individual. It would increase the page byte length for no added value. What I have done, though, is make it even clearer whether the individual can be found in the 1500-1714 or 1715-1886 volumes of Alumni Oxonienses by referencing them separately, and added "sub nom." to the reference. Of course, if consensus is against me on this, I will happily waste my time turning 2 references into 18 references when I next have access to the hard copies of Alumni Oxonienses, in about a fortnight's time...
- 1(b) As for ref 11, Oxford Men, I have added a page number to the general reference (only 2 pages are used) and a url to the archive.org copy.
- 1(c) Author's name for Oxford Men is given in the general reference; there is no named author of Oxford Honours.
- 2(a) I have said in the "general references" section what ODNB, WBO and JCR stand for, and said "Cited in references as: WBO" (for example). What's wrong with this, please?
- 2(b) Where is there a website name in italics? I'm not sure what you mean.
- 3. Again, this is mentioned in the "general references" section. I do not think that it needs to be repeated nearly twenty times.
- 4. Removed; better ODNB reference added for his degree details.
- I'd point out that the main featured list, List of alumni of Jesus College, Oxford, has 437 different references at present. There are about 50 references to Foster and about another 30 to Oxford Honours, and at the moment these are grouped as 2 references used multiple times. There are nearly 100 references to the ODNB and more than 100 from the WBO. Changing all these references as you suggest (individual page references to Foster, spelling out every time what ODNB and WBO mean etc) would add about another 80 references and bloat 200 more, for no additional benefit.
- BencherliteTalk 11:39, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for your patience and detailed explanations. The problem is that when a reader clicks on a specific inline citation, they will not see the general reference and its corresponding information. Readers will have no idea where to look for such information. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:59, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- So – just to be clear – you'd rather I did away with the general references section altogether? Even though it's a format used in all of the articles/lists in the Featured Topic about Jesus College without previous complaint? In addition, which of the numbered points are still problems for you? BencherliteTalk 08:59, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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Sources look good. I don't want to make a big deal about minor issues.
Before I support, can I have clarification on the image statuses? Dabomb87 (talk) 00:29, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Of course. The contributor of the Cotton photo has retired and, whilst I can find online that there is a book called "Calcutta Old and New", as the image page says, I can't find the name of the photographer, so will have to leave the image out. I've added back the Davey photograph, having added more information to the image page following a discussion with the uploader (who confirmed it was his own photo). And I added some more details about "Peacocks in Paradise" to the image page for the Johnes image, so I added that back to the list as well. As I'm no image guru, please let me know if more is needed. Thanks, BencherliteTalk 20:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Why are there so many missing years and degrees? Surely this information exists? I would tend to oppose due to lack of comprehensivness.Yobmod (talk) 10:23, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- In theory, the missing information exists, but most probably only in unpublished college and university records to which the public does not have access. The possible accessible and reliable sources are these:
- From the foundation of the college to 1886: university records as noted in Alumni Oxonienses, but these are not always entirely accurate or complete, particularly for earlier years.
- 1886 to 1894: Oxford Men and their Colleges and / or Oxford Honours; this may only give the year of graduation, or the year of matriculation, or the subject studied, rather than all three
- 1895 onwards: unless the details were recorded in "Who's Who" at the time, or were mentioned in their obituary in The Times, or in their profile for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (or the Dictionary of Welsh Biography), then getting the details will be virtually impossible - there is no central university or college publication listing all graduates since 1886. Some names get mentioned in college publications, such as JNL Baker's History (but that was written in 1971 and so won't include anyone coming to prominence since then), or the annual College Record (which is a "hit and miss" affair, in that somebody's matriculation year may be mentioned, but not their graduation year (or vice versa), and no mention ever made of their subject!)
- I have done my best to find the missing information using "Google Books", but in most cases the people aren't the types who would have biographies written about them, or such comparatively minor pieces of biographical information mentioned in other contexts. In each and every case, the basic fact of the individual's connection to the college – which is the main purpose of the list, after all – is reliably sourced. Whilst the rest of the information would be lovely, I do not think that it makes the list lacking in comprehensiveness. BencherliteTalk 20:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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