Wikipedia:Peer review/Ramones (Ramones album)/archive1

Ramones (Ramones album)

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I want to nominate the article for FA. I would like another reviewer to make sure it meets the FA criteria, and how I can fix any problems. I've never been the cleanest writer, as in I make a lot of MOS and grammar mistakes throughout my articles. That is why I have listed this to be reviewed.

Thanks, CrowzRSA 23:37, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Jappalang

Lede

• "... who are widely cited as the first punk rock band."

  Need more sources than MTV... Information in the lede should be summarised from the main body text. Where in the article is this "first punk rock band" mentioned?

• "... with Allmusic and Rolling Stone magazine, ..."

  Why is Rolling Stone not in italics? Should Allmusic be in italics?

Background

• "... Lisa Robinson ... saw the band performing at CBGB."

  What band?

• "Joey Ramone related: "Lisa came down ..."

  Where is the closing quotation mark?

• "... based in New York City, New York led by ..."

  There should be a comma behind the state. Regardless, is there another New York City in the world? Is New York City not common knowledge?

• What is a ""progressive" force band"? Specifically what does ""progressive" force" mean?

• "... former manager of the New York Dolls, Marty Thau and were not processed ..."

  There should be a comma after the name of the person.

Recording and production

• "... as many orchestras use to record ..."

  "used"

Photography and cover art

• The chronology in this section is somewhat off. First Bayley was introduced as simply a photographer and that the photograph was to be taken for "Punk," (should it be Punk?). Later Bayley is identified again as if we were never told about him, and as a Punk photographer. This section could do with some restructuring.

Compositions

• "It begins instrumental, ..."

  I am fairly certain

• "At second twenty, ..."

  What is "second twenty"?

• "The bass and guitar "gradually" rebuild ..."

  I doubt "gradually" is so unique/controversial as to deserve quotation marks.

• "... the seconds twenty to thirty–three."

  The what?

• ".. it lives up to the speed, menace, humor, and mystery."

  To the "speed, menace, humor, and mystery" of what?

• ""Beat on the Brat" is the album's only song sung in third-person view."

  How do you sing a song (audio) in a visual perspective (the link goes to Virtual camera system)? Is this meant simply to be "sung in the third-person."?

• About Joey's explanation behind "Beat on the Brat", use blockquotes for quotations longer than four sentences.

• "The resulting lyrics are summarized as referring to two juvenile offenders, in the settings of both Berlin and San Francisco, who possibly at the song's conclusion are dead."

  "The lyrics refer to two juvenile offenders in Berlin and San Francisco and their possible deaths at the conclusion of the song.:

• "The song is fictional as announced Nicholas Rombes who describes this meta-perspective in his analysis of the album as "both line in a song and song line across a line in a song.""

  Is there a missing punctuation in the first part of this long sentence? Who is Nicholas Rombes? Even though the quote is introduced as "meta-perspective", "both line in a song and song line across a line in a song" is incomprehensible.

• "... being one minute and 32 seconds." and other such phrasings.

  Figures should be consistent as either numbers or words when used as units of measures.

• "The text has origins of irony and humor and depiction of violence."

  Are "themes" meant instead of "origins"?

• "... opens with the sound of a circular saw running ..."

  "... opens with the sound of a running circular saw ..."

• ""Chainsaw" has album's the fastest tempo, ..."

  ""Chainsaw" has the fastest tempo among the album's songs, ..."

• "... consists of only four lines ..."

  "Only" is redundant.

• "After several pieces of the Ramones, whose song's titles begin with "I Don't Want to ..." , Tommy said that "Now I Want to Sniff Some Glue" is known as the first positive song from the album."

  "The first positive song from the album" does not seem to be qualified by the preceding clause; there is only one song in the album that starts with "I Don't Want to ...".

• "With a playing time of two minutes and 35 seconds, the longest piece on the album is."

  Not grammatical...

• Spy vs. Spy should be in italics, not quotation marks.

• "The studio recording for the debut album has been expanded by Mickey Leigh and Craig Leon for percussion effects, which went unmentioned in the liner notes to the album's release."

  This seems sudden amidst the mention of "Harvana Affair". Why is it here and not in a section about the album as a whole?

• "... proceed at nearly the same tempo."

  "The same tempo" as what?

• ""Listen to My Heart" is one of the first of many in the repertoire of the Ramones, made up of an ironic and pessimistic perspective with failing or already failed human love relations deals."

  "Human love relations deals"?

• "... because it appears to be threatening."

  What "appears to be threatening"?

• "When the prostitute finally gets a customer yet, he killed him with a razor to prove not to be homosexual."

  Ungrammatical: mismatched tenses, questionable "yet", clunky second clause.

• "About the authenticity and autobiographical coloring of lyrics exist contradictory statements by both the author and by his contemporaries."

  Please rephrase this awkward phrase.

• "In some interviews with Dee Dee Ramone, the piece is described as autobiographical:"

  "During interviews, Dee Dee describes this song as an autobiographical piece." The quote is not needed (it might even be contradictory to his earlier quote about glue sniffing).

• "... could not be claimed on a record."

  "... could not be published on a record."

• "... they came up with alternate lyrics or the line that read ..."

  "Or the line that read" is redundant; it makes the sentence awkward.

• "Before they released the album, they came up with alternate lyrics or the line that read "I'm a shock trooper in a stupor, yes I am." They went with the alternate lyrics and released the album, and has since been the group's "signature closer at live shows," says Mickey Leigh."

  "They replaced those lyrics with "I'm a shock trooper in a stupor, yes I am." Since the release of the album, the replacement lyrics was the group's "signature closer at live shows," according to Mickey Leigh."

• "Several songs from the album features backing vocals from several different guests."

  "Several songs from the album feature backing vocals from several guests."

• "... sings backing vocals on ..." and for the rest as well.

  "... sang backing vocals on ..."

• After reading the entire section, I really have to question whether each song has to be highlighted even when the only content about it is a sentence with less than twenty words... My reading of some parts feel labored, I felt as if information was stuffed in just to provide some substance to the song in question. A restructuring and pruning of this section, tightening the focus would do good in my view.

Critical response

• If I am not wrong, Allmusic here is pointing to the published dead-tree version; hence, it should be in italics.

• Again, why is Rolling Stone not in italics? Why is it then in italics later? Why is it linked twice in the same section?

• About.com is not a reliable source. The author might be an expert if outside sources judge him or her as such, so which sources have deemed ... Wait... why is this sourced to Answers.com?

• This section feels like a loose collection of quotes from reviewers. There feels to be little linkage in how the read moves from one reviewer to another. Basically, what is here is X said this and Y said this without a smooth flow of ideas. Grouping the reviewer's opinions into themes could give a focus that is lacking.

Accolades

• "The album was included in Spin's List of Top Ten College Cult Classics, noting that "everything good that's happened to music in the last fourteen years can be directly traced to the Ramones.""

  Incorrect structure: here, the album is the one that "[notes]" the quoted idea.

• Repetitiveness abounds here. "The album" starts the first three sentences, and is the object in every sentence thereafter...

Legacy

• "Ramones is considered to have established the musical genre punk rock, as well as popularizing it years afterward."

  By who? This is the sort of sentence that either needs explicit attribution or a wide acceptance. Is Nicholas Rombes such an expert in the music industry that his opinion is accepted consensus?

• "Since it is their debut album, it began the Ramones' influence on popular music, with examples being musicians associated with other genres, such as heavy metal, thrash metal indie pop, grunge, and post-punk. are among the many alternative rock musicians who have credited the Ramones with inspiring them."

  Punctuation errors and incorrect grammar here

• "Despite its lack of popularity in its era, since the beginning of the 21st Century, some 25 years after its release and years after the dissolution of the group Ramones, the importance of the album for the development of punk rock music was recognized by the music press and music industry."

  By the time I read the last clause, I forgot what were the first three. I feel this is an example of stuffing too many information into one sentence. Please refine it.

• "It started in 2001, ..."

  What started?

• "The Ramones album there is number 1."

  What album?

References

• Where is "Erlewine — Allmusic" pointing to?

• How are music.spreadit.org, rockometer.com, rateyourmusic.com, and music.blinkx.com reliable sources? How do they qualify as such per Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-28/Dispatches?

General

• Problems with commas as delimiters (missing).

• Several noun plus -ing constructs: Please read User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing on the possible issues with such constructs and how to resolve them.

Media

• File:Ramones album cover.jpg

  "the most historically important and influential album in the development of punk rock"... ever heard of WP:NPOV...? Please rewrite the fair use rationale. Aside from it as a non-replaceable idenfication of the subject, it has an advantage over other standard articles on albums in that the article actually has critical commentary on the cover's design. Point that out.

• File:Ramones-Blitzkrieg Bop.ogg

  This deserves a much clearer fair use rationale on why this piece is qualified by the ten criteria of WP:NFCC for this article. What specific qualities of this sample, unexplainable with words, would help the readers' comprehension of this album?

An outside copy-editor's help would certainly be useful here. Jappalang (talk) 14:11, 2 November 2010 (UTC)