Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Minden Blake

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Donner60 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 04:20, 2 March 2024 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Minden Blake[edit]

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Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

Minden Blake (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Up for review here is a bio of a New Zealand Battle of Britain fighter pilot and flying ace (he was quite the sportsman as well). A prewar officer in the RAF, after the Battle of Britain he led fighter wings up until the Dieppe Raid, when he was shot down and became a prisoner of war. This went to GA back in 2020 and I have been meaning to bring it here for an A-Class review for a while now. Thanks in advance to those who take the time to leave feedback. Zawed (talk) 09:57, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Nick-D[edit]

Great work as always Zawed. I have only some modest comments:

  • "He is credited with shooting down at least ten aircraft" - the final section credits him with 13 kills, 3 of which were shared. I'd suggest tweaking this text.
  • I was referring to the victories that he was solely responsible for, not the shared. Nonetheless, have revised this as suggested. Zawed (talk) 08:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead says that he was a 'prolific inventor' but the final section describes him as a 'inveterate tinkerer' and only notes a single patent for a new invention. Did he develop other products?
  • I've walked back this a bit by removing "prolific". Note that there are two patents. Zawed (talk) 08:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure if the sources cover this, but did he join the RAF to get his passage to the UK paid for and/or to take advantage of veterans' benefits to study at the end of his service? The wording here is a bit unclear.
  • It was under a "university entrant" scheme; I had thought mentioning the intention to study engineering was sufficient but have now added specific mention of the scheme. Zawed (talk) 09:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first para of the 'Second World War' section is a bit wordy
  • "was appointed commander of a fighter wing" - I'd suggest noting which wing this was
  • The source identifies this as the "Polish Wing" but no number. I have added a specific mention of this. Zawed (talk) 09:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "By this time, German defensive operations was causing high casualties among the RAF, which subsequently saw a reduction in these missions over the winter months" - the wording here is a bit clunky
  • Did Blake develop the gyroscopic gunsight, or was he involved in trialling it, etc?
  • The 'Postwar career' section doesn't mention Blake's rank for his various appointments. Was he promoted, or did he remain a Wing Commander? (it would also be good to note when he was made substantive at this rank, as it's only noted that he was an acting Wing Commander at the time of his capture)
  • There doesn't seem to have been a promotion beyond his wing commander rank being made substantive. I've also made a distinction between acting and temporary wing commander in the previous section. Zawed (talk) 09:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Am I right in thinking that Blake didn't return to flying roles after the war? Was this due to the injuries he had sustained?
  • Yes, it seems that his postwar roles were as a staff officer. I don't think it was a matter of his physical condition, as he pole vaulted and golfed to a high level. Zawed (talk) 09:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1979, Blake was a co-author, along with H. J. Weaver, of Suicide by Socialism" - this indicates that he had fairly strong conservative political views. Can anything be said about this? It might be worth checking online UK newspaper archives. Nick-D (talk) 23:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I found an article in a trade newspaper that briefly discusses the book, and have added a bit about it. @Nick-D: thanks for taking the time to look at this. I have responded to your points above and my edits are here]. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:15, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support These changes look good, and I'm pleased to support. Please note the extra comment above though. Nick-D (talk) 09:49, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild[edit]

  • "He was shot down during aerial operations in support of the Dieppe Raid". Could it be mentioned when this was?
  • " He was also an inventor and developed a golfing aid that was a commercial success." Is there a typo of some sort in here?
  • I didn't see a typo but have slightly rephrased. Zawed (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Minden is an unusual first name, is it known why he as given it? (After the battle of Minden?)
  • No, nothing in the sources. Zawed (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Blake entered the Canterbury University College". I don't think there should be a definite article there.
  • "In the meantime, he had graduated". Suggest deleting "had"; the first three words have established the past tense.
  • "a masters of science". Why is master plural?
  • "He gained his wings". Could you provide a brief in line gloss for this?
  • Not entirely sure what you mean here, but now refer to "pilot's wings" as an attempt for greater context. Zawed (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's jargon, but I guess that for A class we can let it slide.
  • "He remained active in athletics, particularly in pole vaulting". Are you sure the source says he was particularly active in pole vaulting, as opposed to particularly successful?
  • I somewhat overreached here, have rephrased to focus specifically on the pole vaulting. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to take over as its acting commander. Taking up his new role on 16 August, his new squadron was part of". Optional: is it possible to avoid the semi-repetition of take/taking and the actual repetition of "new"?
  • Have rephrased to deal with this. Zawed (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it worth indicating that Middle Wallop is the name of the air base?
  • "On 15 September, what is now known as Battle of Britain Day, No. 238 Squadron was scrambled to help protect London from a large bombing raid". "raid" singular? If so, which one?
  • I was referring to a mid-afternoon raid, I have clarified and added an indication of the size of the bomber force. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "destroying one which crashed on an airfield in Sussex." I don't think "destroying" is the correct word if it managed to crash land on an airfield.
  • Rephrased for better clarity. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Linked on first mention earlier in 2nd para of WWII section, but have removed fill stop in both instances. Zawed (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • " A major operation for the squadron was the provision of a covering escort for the destroyer HMS Javelin ... into Plymouth". This doesn't work, grammatically.
  • "Several Do 17s mounted an attack on Javelin". Did this meet with any success?
  • Made clear the ship made it to port. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "operated Supermarine Spitfire fighters ... operated Supermarine Spitfire fighters". Is the model it was flying from St Eval known?
  • "it began to undertake offensive operations to occupied France and Belgium". Optional: "to" → 'over'.
  • "to the southwest of Isle of Portland" → 'to the southwest of the Isle of Portland'.
  • "south west ... southwest". Any reason for the inconsistency?
  • There isn't a place called "Portland" in the UK. What does the source say?
  • Amended to Isle of Portland. Zawed (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the destruction of a Bf 109". It would be helpful if a reader were told in line what type of aircraft a "Bf 109" was and if the term were linked.
  • "At the end of the year, his wing commander rank was made temporary." This will be read as a demotion by most readers, could it be unpacked a little?
  • I'm struggling to explain the distinction between this and "acting" but had a go, including a link. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Blake continued on operations for the next several months". Is the actual number of months known?
  • I've rejigged this; the point I was trying to make was that he remained in command of Portreath Wing up until Dieppe. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any reason why "gyroscopic gunsight" is not linked to Gyro gunsight?
  • "Shortly afterwards he was sent on a course at the RAF College at Bracknell." Is it known what the topic of the course was?
  • No info in source on this. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any chance of a brief description of what the Swingrite did?
  • Have added a short description. Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great work as ever. Almost entirely nit picking above. My only real grumble is the low probability of this making its way to FAC. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:23, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: thanks for the review, I have responded to all of your points now. Why the low probability for FAC, are you referring to my lack of presence there in recent times? Zawed (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am. You churn out well sourced articles. Which are (IMHO) well up to FAC when they come out of ACR. But few ever seem to get nominated there, which I consider a shame. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:10, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the support. It has been a while since I was last at FAC, my last nomination put me off the process a bit. I'm getting over myself now though and intend to head back there soon. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:16, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great work. Supporting. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:17, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF[edit]

I'll review this one soon. Hog Farm Talk 15:10, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Is there a link for perspex?

Wynn is self-published but I remember discussing that at I think a GA review about why that source is okay. I'm going to go ahead and support. Hog Farm Talk 23:38, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the support HF, much appreciated. Zawed (talk) 05:25, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • RE Wynn, looking ahead to a source review, I quote from my comments from the GA review HF refers to above (for James Hayter (RAF officer)): "Wynn is well known for his work on biographical dictionaries of fighter pilots of the Battle of Britain. His book, "Men of the Battle of Britain" is a major reference work in this field and has been published three times beginning in 1989, the most recent being by Frontline Books. Much of the content from his 1981 book is repeated in the later works but in a slightly trimmed down form. Both are often cited by authors in the field, e.g. John Ray, Adam Claasen, Stephen Bungay, James Holland, Brian Cull, the 1981 book more so by NZ authors. The Battle of Britain Memorial Trust now have the rights to his work. I believe that on this basis he is a reliable source." I note that the Frontline Books publication I mention in the quote was the 2015 edition. Zawed (talk) 05:25, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass[edit]

Only two images:

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for checking this. Zawed (talk) 05:39, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass[edit]

  • Sources are generally nicely formatted and consistent.
    • Lambert (2011) location?
      • Auckland, it is listed. Zawed (talk) 05:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sources are generally against reputable sources and accurately represent the relevant body of published knowledge.
    • Wynn (1981) self published?
      • Yes, self-published. See my comment above (as part of HogFarm's review) regarding this. Should I have self-published instead of reciting his name as publisher? Zawed (talk) 05:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        No need. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:33, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Spot checks:
    • fn 18, 19, 23a, 25 - okay
  • Consider adding his service number (36095) to the infobox. This will help quick lookups.
    • Done, I added a bit to the body of text as well. Zawed (talk) 05:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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