Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Samuel Forsyth

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Sturmvogel 66 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 13:20, 21 March 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Samuel Forsyth[edit]

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

The latest in the series of articles I've brought to A-Class review for New Zealand Victoria Cross recipients of the First World War, Samuel Forsyth was a sapper who earned his VC at the Second Battle of Bapaume in August 1918. The article went through a GA review in April 2018 and since then I have expanded it to take into account feedback received on previous articles in the series. Zawed (talk) 22:58, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments: G'day, Zawed. Nice work. I have the following suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 08:54, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

is his mother's name known?

No, all the sources I have located on this refer to Mrs Thomas Forsyth. Perhaps I could refer to Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Forsyth? Zawed (talk) 08:53, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

G'day, this from the Wellington City Council lists his mother's name as Grace: [1] AustralianRupert (talk) 09:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Doh, I must try harder...thanks, I have added to the article. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 04:36, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

part of the New Zealand Mounted Brigade: is this the New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade? If yes, suggest linking
Forsyth landed at Gallipoli in May 1915 during the Gallipoli Campaign: maybe landed at Anzac Cove?
During this time Field Troop --> "During this time the Field Troop"
Forsyth was medically evacuated in July 1915: do we know what the medical issue was?

Source says sickness, but no further detail than that. I have added. Unfortunately don't know the reason for his November evacuation. Zawed (talk) 08:53, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. AustralianRupert (talk) 09:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

New Zealand Division's involvement in the Battle of the Somme --> link Battle of the Somme
stationed in Armentieres: link Armentieres
despite been exposed to the German --> "despite having been exposed to the German"?
The London Gazette, No. 30967, 18 October 1918: London Gazette should be in italics
in the Notes, the date format is inconsistent, e.g. compare "Retrieved 2012-11-28" with "Retrieved 20 March 2018"
in the References, Harper and McGibbon are probably overlinked

AustralianRupert, thanks for the feedback, I have dealt with all of your points above, with some additional comments as appropriate. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:53, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - when/where was the image first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:55, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1n 1918, it was used to illustrate several articles in NZ newspapers on the announcement of his VC. Some examples are:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19190719.2.74.1?query=Forsyth VC&snippet=true
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TO19190920.2.122.2?query=Forsyth VC&snippet=true

Zawed (talk) 04:04, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest then swapping the URAA tag for the 1923-abroad tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:18, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thanks. Zawed (talk) 08:08, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM[edit]

This article looks in great shape, although brief, he did die at 27 which explains that. I have a few comments:

in the lead, suggest "holding up the advance of his battalion, but was then killed by a sniper."
link Thorndon School
link Amalgam (chemistry) for gold amalgamator
which brigade did the 3rd Field Company form part of? Or were they the divisional engineers?
"with the New Zealand Division" is probably unnecessary, as we have already established this.
how was he "officially noted for his service"? Divisional or corps orders?
suggest using a colon rather than a comma with "The citation for Forsyth's VC read,"
link Miraumont
there are a few things in his personal record that could be usefully added. Firstly, on page 8 it says that he was evacuated in July 1915 with influenza, and in November 1915 with jaundice. The record also mentions which ships and hospital ships he went on, page 9 also provides dates for his promotions.

That's me done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:49, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Peacemaker67, I have actioned the above items including expansion on minor details based on his service records. See what you think. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 06:48, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. Supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:22, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Suppport Comments from Parsecboy[edit]

One dupe link in the lead
I'd link Etaples
I'd suggest adding rough dates for the Somme - the last rough date given is April 1916, followed by a "later in the year", and most readers won't know when the Somme took place
Ditto for the other battles and operations mentioned
"Forsyth's wife, Mary, was presented with the Victoria Cross by King George V..." - can we flip that to active voice? Parsecboy (talk) 21:28, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Parsecboy: thanks for taking a look at this one. I have revised the article based on your comments, these are my changes. Re the dupe link, although I have removed it, I thought its use in that scenario would be acceptable since the first usage is as a postnominal. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:17, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This has gotten me thinking - I know its standard practice to include the postnominal in British usage, but I wonder if this is really the best way to present the information in an encyclopedia. It's generally advised that acronyms and initialisms should not be used without explaining them first, and I'm struggling to find a way to avoid defining what "VC" means after it's used apart from dropping it as a postnominal (and that doesn't force a reader to click a link). I also realize that this is not the sort of thing that should be addressed one article at a time, and it may be that the current structure is the best way to go about it - this is mostly just food for thought. Nice work with the article. Parsecboy (talk) 12:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Parsecboy, this is progressing well. Did you have anything else to add? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:01, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, thanks for the ping. Parsecboy (talk) 12:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

All the sources look of high quality and reliable, and the formatting is fine. The personnel file is used as a primary source, so should be moved to References from EL. I'm not sure Find a Grave is an appropriate EL, as I'm not sure it is considered reliable. The other one from Wayback Machine appears to be a personal blog, and could probably be dispensed with as well, as it seems to duplicate material already sourced from reliable sources. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:15, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I also wondered if the official portrait could be used in the article? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:34, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Have deleted all external links now, plus added the portrait. Thanks, Zawed (talk) 07:25, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Peacemaker67, Nikkimaria: just checking that your comments RE image and source reviews are satisfactorily addressed here? Zawed (talk) 09:08, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Happy source-wise. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:18, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Nikkimaria (talk) 10:34, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.