Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-01-10/In focus
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I an sorry you received an email saying your review "was unwelcome and [you] should stay away": that is completely unacceptable. The whole FAC process depends on the kindness of others to give up their limited time to review articles, and hearing that someone was trying to force you away is problematic. I hope it never happens to you again, but if it does (or if it happens to anyone who reads this), please post the details with the name of the editor concerned at Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. If people object to someone's review, the best place(s) to discuss it are either on the review page or FAC Talk, where a wider audience—including the @FAC coordinators: —are able to judge the merits and to stop people forcing reviewers away. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:19, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- I would agree with SchroCat above. FAC is only as good as the reviewers who show up, and hostility towards people taking time out of their day to improve articles hurts the entire process. Article quality already suffers in my opinion from people being afraid of opposing on quality concerns. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 13:35, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with SchroCat and David Fuchs - it bears repeating that an oppose !vote is a commentary on the article, not an attack against the nominator. I would rather have a well-reasoned oppose than a cursory support, since one could at least use the opposer's feedback to fix the article and potentially flip them into the support column. If someone were to support without actually believing that the article should be promoted to FAC, it would be bad both for the nominator and for the article. Driving opposing reviewers away just turns the FAC process into "a politicized good ol' boys' club", as one editor recently described it, and it reflects poorly on the process. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- "a politicized good ol' boys' club" smacks of bad faith and a sentiment I would roundly reject. We have a healthy proportion of new nominators every month and many of those come back with their second or third FACs after that. - SchroCat (talk) 18:21, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- I wholeheartedly agree. That was just something I saw in an unrelated discussion about topicons; if people think FAC is a cliquish process, that will certainly make them distrust the entire concept of featured articles. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:35, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- "a politicized good ol' boys' club" smacks of bad faith and a sentiment I would roundly reject. We have a healthy proportion of new nominators every month and many of those come back with their second or third FACs after that. - SchroCat (talk) 18:21, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with SchroCat and David Fuchs - it bears repeating that an oppose !vote is a commentary on the article, not an attack against the nominator. I would rather have a well-reasoned oppose than a cursory support, since one could at least use the opposer's feedback to fix the article and potentially flip them into the support column. If someone were to support without actually believing that the article should be promoted to FAC, it would be bad both for the nominator and for the article. Driving opposing reviewers away just turns the FAC process into "a politicized good ol' boys' club", as one editor recently described it, and it reflects poorly on the process. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for the inside advice about FAC work! I am currently working on improving Ida Saxton McKinley to GA status in hopes of making it an FA. To be honest, doing all the research and making sure that you have enough details but not too much is really difficult, but I think that having high-quality articles about U.S. First Ladies is a goal worth striving for. I am very much looking forward to the next installment. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 17:03, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- FAC can be nitpicky for sure, but each time I've been through it I know the article has ended up in a much better place than it started. I agree with the author that promptness avails the nominator well, and that purely cosmetic/subjective battles aren't worth fighting. I'd also note one piece of etiquette that I had no idea of for my first nomination - it's ok to explicitly ask someone else to come review your FAC! My third nomination languished for weeks - so I went and asked some folks on their talk pages, and a bunch of them came and reviewed the article! Not everyone will say yes, of course. Phrasing your request neutrally (and without any hint of quid pro quo) is also important. But I think many nominators are unaware that the best option, if no one is showing up to review, is to go ask some people! Prior reviewers of any GAs or DYKs you've written are a good place to start. —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:15, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Ganesha811 that's a good point, I'll mention that in Part 2. And, @HistoryTheorist, when your article is ready, please ping me and I'll be happy to give it a look. I recently reviewed Jane Irwin Harrison; maybe I'll make a hobby out of doing first lady reviews :-) RoySmith (talk) 23:12, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- Asking other active FAC reviewers in a neutral manner is also a great way to get people to your review too. Looking down the nominations page shows a lot of regular reviewers who it's good to ask. Not all will be able to help, obviously, but enough to help your review get some traction. - SchroCat (talk) 17:22, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
it's ok to explicitly ask someone else to come review your FAC!
this is also true if you are putting the article up for a pre-FAC peer review. If your article is within the remit of an active wikiproject, you can also leave a notification on the project's talkpage as well as notifying individual editors Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 15:58, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Ganesha811 that's a good point, I'll mention that in Part 2. And, @HistoryTheorist, when your article is ready, please ping me and I'll be happy to give it a look. I recently reviewed Jane Irwin Harrison; maybe I'll make a hobby out of doing first lady reviews :-) RoySmith (talk) 23:12, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- @HistoryTheorist, best of luck on improving Ida Saxton McKinley to GA/FA status. If you're going for a GAN or FAC, you may want to request feedback from other editors who contribute in the topic area. For example, @Thebiguglyalien has written numerous GAs/FAs on U.S. first ladies, so it may be a good idea to ask if he has any advice (he may not, but it's not a bad idea to try). – Epicgenius (talk) 17:33, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- In my experience, everyone (barring the odd exception) at FAC is there because they want to see the best-quality articles promoted. The source of conflict is that nominators, who have worked hard on their article and believe them to be near-flawless (otherwise they wouldn't be nominating it), are interested in their article being promoted whereas reviewers are interesting upholding the process and the criteria. It can be frustrating for both sometimes, especially with less-experienced nominators, because the reviewer will be seeing flaws that they've seen many times in many articles ("haven't people learnt by now!") but are brand new to the nominator. I hope you enjoyed the FAC process, Roy, and that you'll bring more articles through it. I'll try to offer a review when I get chance! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:24, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
- This is incredibly helpful in demystifying the process. Thank you for such a clearly and lively report! Innisfree987 (talk) 09:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)