Category talk:Counter-jihad

2022-10 Eurabia
the english-language is not my mother tongue and i do not understand what you mean by «came first» in special:diff/1118698054. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 09:15, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It means that the Eurabia theory (2005) came before the counter-jihad movement (2007), so I just changed the order so that counter-jihad is a subcategory of Eurabia and not the other way around. Thismess (talk)
 * « It means that the Eurabia theory (2005) came before the counter-jihad movement (2007) » => Thank you for the explanation. This is not a sufficient motive to include Category:Counter-jihad inside Category:Eurabia and the Counterjihad movement is not part of the Eurabia thesis so i will reverse the inclusion order. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 10:24, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Then you misunderstand the order of categories, because it is always the broader subject that came first that has the newer concept as a subcategory. Bat Ye'or was part of creating both concepts by the way so counter-jihad is a very clear part of Eurabia. Thismess (talk) 10:33, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * « Then you misunderstand the order of categories, because it is always the broader subject that came first that has the newer concept as a subcategory. » => I see not use of «newer» in Categorization. What are your sources?
 * « Bat Ye'or was part of creating both concepts » => Sources?
 * « counter-jihad is a very clear part of Eurabia. » => Sources?
 * Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 11:12, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Newer or more specified. Counter-jihad is always a part of Eurabia, but Eurabia is not necessarily part of counter-jihad. (You can be a part of Eurabia while not a part of counter-jihad).
 * Source: Bat Ye'or was a keynote speaker at the official "Counterjihad Brussels 2007" summit. Before that she wrote her Eurabia book in 2005. You can read about it in the counter-jihad article. Thismess (talk) 11:52, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * So no source. Got it. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 13:06, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Where is your source? Thismess (talk) 13:32, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There's certainly a relationship between the two: "But all of these later conspiracy theories [including counter-jihad] took inspiration from a founding myth of contemporary Islamophobia: an invented plot, known as 'Eurabia', to destroy European civilisation." I don't know whether it's appropriate to consider counter-jihad a subcategory or sub-type of Eurabia, however, just because the former took inspiration from the latter. More sources would be useful. Snuish (talk) 16:29, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * "The counter-jihad evolved during the 2000s, initially outside the organizational spaces of neo-fascism and drawing on a distinct set of intellectual resources, including ... the “Eurabia” literature associated with the Swiss-Israeli conspiracy theorist Gisèle Littman (“Bat Ye’Or”)."
 * "Eurabia has gotten scant mention in the American press; mainstream historians have scorned it. Yet the book’s thesis has risen to the level of dogma among American counter-jihadists"
 * And as said, Bat Ye'or was key in creating both concepts, the latter as a direct reaction to the former. Thismess (talk) 23:57, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Neither of the first two statements necessarily lead to the following conclusion though: "Counter-jihad is a kind of Eurabia." Do we have any sources that say Bat Ye'or was key in actively creating counter-jihad? Certainly, the counter-jihad movement was inspired in part by her work, but the movement took inspiration from other sources too, and the quotes you provided say as much. Snuish (talk) 14:31, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * By the way, I don't plan on undoing this edit, but I am wondering if there is a better way to demonstrate the relationship between the two concepts. Snuish (talk) 14:40, 2 November 2022 (UTC)