Category talk:English dramatists and playwrights

CFD Discussion
The entries in this category have been moved to Category:British dramatists and playwrights with the exception of dramatists and playwrights from Wales and Scotland who have been moved to separate categories. Ganymead 03:24, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * This category was listed for deletion on April 9, 2005. Consensus was to Keep. The following discussion from CFD is now closed and should not be modified.
 * Oppose. This decision ignores the way the British people categories work and I am in the process of reversing it. category:English dramatists and playwrights needs to be a subcategory of category:English writers because the latter will be some users starting point. Most of these people are described as English in the opening sentence of their article, and a good number of them lived before the concept of Britishness existed. Ganymead has taken the Scottish and Welsh subcategories out of the British category, but all the main subcategories of category:British writers are subdivided into national categories, including an English category, as are most of the other British occupational categories. This way people can get to an article whether they start from the subject menu or the national menu. Oliver Chettle 04:52, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * While I realize there are differences between "English" and "British", I'm simply attempting to streamline the categories. I have used categories to search for British authors in the past and have found it difficult to have to search two categories as there is seemingly no standard for referring to someone as "English" or referring to them as "British". Indeed, some articles refer to the playwright as being one or the other, but it could be reversed for many and still be correct (i.e. Kwame Kwei-Armah or Alan Ayckbourn). The reference works that I have consulted in my work (both the Oxford and the Cambridge Guides to Theatre) delineate these with earlier (mid 19th Century back) personages referred to as "English" and all others as "British". So I should ask, should we delineate by time period or is there another standard? I haven't a problem with keeping the English category, but there must be a standard. Ganymead 06:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Before I step off of my soap-box, I should also address my reasons for placing Wales and Scotland in the national category. I did so due to the nationalistic tendencies of these regions as well as cultural and linguistic differences. Indeed, these playwrights would be considered "British", but doing so would ignore the cultural traditions of their region. I shall step down from my soap-box now and go to bed. :-) Ganymead 06:08, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep.  Either have Welsh, Scottish and English subcategories or none at all.  (And Northern Irish if needed.)  Scottish and Welsh playwrights have their own categories because that's where they were born and/or lived, not because they share 'nationalistic tendencies' &mdash; like England, these countries are not culturally homogeneous. Jihg 23:53, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I agree with Jihg's reasons.  --Azkar 18:17, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Agree with Jihg. Category:British dramatists and playwrights should be a parent category for separate cats of Welsh, Scottish, English and NI dramatists and playwrights. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 00:26, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This, and all these British vs. English categories, is a disaster. There's absolutely no logic to whether people are listed as British or English, so it becomes a total mess. Basically, either we should only have categories for the sub-nations, and make the "British dramatists", etc. categories into just parent categories with no articles in them; or else we should get rid of the subcategories and have them all in British. Ganymead's proposal - to leave the English authors in British, but keep Scottish, Welsh, and northern Irish separate, would also be preferable to the current mess. People should be ashamed of themselves for voting against a plausible solution and then allowing the current total mess to continue unabated. john k (talk) 05:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)