Talk:Ça plane pour moi

Title
This song title is spelled wrongly. It should be 'Ca Plain Pour Moi'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.239.79 (talk) 10:34, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Doubt it -- "plain" would be pronounced with nasalaized vowel, not with [n] consonant. If you want an actual verb form occurring in French, it would have to be spelled "plaint" anyway (from plaindre). AnonMoos (talk) 13:24, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Whoever made the comment about 'plain' clearly knows nothing whatsoever about French. 'Ça plane' (yes, with a Ç, not a C) is absolutely correct. Besides that, I think the translation 'everything's going well for me' is pretty tame. The French expression comes closer to a 'I'm on a high', with more than a hint of drug use.213.127.210.95 (talk) 21:30, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

The article (currently) asserts:


 * "Ça plane pour moi" is a French idiomatic expression which is best translated as "everything's going well for me" (literally: "it is gliding for me").

I have to disagree. While the "best" translation has some vernacular veracity to it, the literal translation is more like "this existence for me" (but I can see the drug use interpretation, too) --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 18:42, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Claims by Lou Deprijck
Plastic Bertrand - whose real name is Roger Jouret - still denies Deprijck's claims.

"He's making me out to be a crook, but I am an artist, not a crook," he said, threatening to countersue his former producer for defamation.

"On July 28th, 2010, Plastic Bertrand admitted that he was not the singer nor the writer of the song." Really? This BBC article of the same date (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10787037) states "Plastic Bertrand - whose real name is Roger Jouret - still denies Deprijck's claims. 'He's making me out to be a crook, but I am an artist, not a crook,' he said, threatening to countersue his former producer for defamation." Kmitch87 (talk) 20:41, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Jet Boy, Jet Girl
--62.116.83.69 (talk) 03:55, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * here: "Jet Boy, Jet Girl", an adaptation recorded in November 1977 by Elton Motello, has the same melody.
 * Jet Boy, Jet Girl: a) Released	October 1977, b) "Jet Boy, Jet Girl" has the same backing track as Plastic Bertrand's/Lou Deprijck "Ça Plane Pour Moi". A few months before "Ca plane pour moi" was recorded, the record firm used the same masters with the same musicians to edit "Jet Boy, Jet Girl".

A punk rock song ?
Here's two sources where it is said that "Ça plane pour moi" is a punk song :

http://www.spin.com/articles/21-greatest-k-pop-songs-all-time/?page=3 2. HyunA - "Bubble Pop!" (2011) "After opening with riffs out of Plastic Bertrand's Belgian bazooka-punk classic "Ca Plane Pour Moi,""

http://filmscoreclicktrack.com/2012/07/cd-review-ruby-sparks/ "The album also includes five source cues, including Plastic Bertrand’s punk classic “Ça Plane Pour Moi,”"

But could they be considered as good, reliable sources or not ?

81.53.43.233 (talk) 21:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If you didn't have the references saying it was Punk, what would you describe about the song that fits the Punk genre? Lyrical style? Riff? ''' Flat Out   let's discuss it   02:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

- It's not about the lyrics of this song, because they are totally nonsensical. It's much more about its riff and its fast tempo. I think these two elements show "Ça plane pour moi" is much more closer to punk rock than new wave. I know it exists new wave songs which feature a fast tempo, like "Goody two shoes" by Adam Ant or "Call me" by Blondie, but for "Ça plane pour moi" the riff is too heavy, too harsh to be a new wave song. New wave generally features a poppier side, even when it features a fast tempo. Moreover when this song was released, in 1977-1978, punk rock was a genre that was rising to mainstream in Europe to protest against disco, political problems,... whereas historically, I don't think new wave was present everywhere in Europe at this time. Except in England, where some bands such as The Police began to develop it (and yet their new wave style was heavily influenced by punk rock at the beginning of their carreer), new wave was quite unknown in the rest of Europe. In fact, new wave really began to rise to mainstream in 1979, where songs such as "Cars" by Gary Numan or "Pop muzik" by M became international hits.

All these elements make me think that "Ça plane pour moi" is much more likely a punk rock song, even if it doesn't feature the typical protest lyrics of the punk movement, than a new wave song. 81.53.43.233 (talk) 23:17, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not certain I agree the riff is heavy.. it's a simple 3 chord progression with a bit of overdrive. My views, that the song is New Wave, are summed up in this bio. ''' Flat Out   let's discuss it   04:41, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's not totally wrong, new wave began to become quite popular in 1977-1978 (and I listened to "Ça plane pour moi" yesterday, it's not as heavy as I believed, you're right). I wouldn't say I totally disagree with what Huey is saying, but there is an important thing that he doesn't mention in his review (and that I didn't talk about in my last post) : it's the fact new wave and punk were born at the same time, shared the same characteristics in their early days so they were very similar and very close to each other. That's why very first new wave bands (The Police, Blondie, Talking Heads,..) were also regarded as punk bands, even if later they wouldn't be regarded as punk bands any more. In fact, both of the terms "Punk rock" and "New wave" were interchangeable when these two genres appeared. So it's difficult to say, for a song of this period, if it is a punk rock song or a new wave song. I looked for some articles in French which talk about "Ça plane pour moi" and its musical genre (there's absolutely nothing about it in English) and one of them describe this song as a "caricature of the punk era". To convince you, I found those four articles talking about "Ça plane pour moi" that I translated for you so you don't have to waste your time to look for a translation.

"Your above paragraph sums up the importance of considering music's temporal nature. To spend too much time on the distinction between punk and new wave in the 21st century is difficult, but I recall it being even harder in 1978 when I began on KROQ/106.7 Los Angeles. Part of the problem is people need to see it along a two-dimensional frame of reference. Part of the fun of it was some seeing a need to pick a side in the music revolution, which it was. But you actually have to consider the new romantics and the goths as well. So do you then make a circa 1980 three-dimensional model in your mind? Or simply place Punk at one end of a line, New Romantics at the other, and scatter the rest in between? Sure, punks pogo-ed to this song, and somewhere nearby there were foreverly people lining up to call them posers. Who were those people? I have no idea. I think they were in Black Flag. Maybe they were the anti-antis. Spoiling for an excuse to fight. Their biggest problem was convincing their parents that a smashed face was no big deal for a punk show. No one was ever a punk in peace, nor did they want to be."Jed 17:24, 25 April 2014 (UTC)Jed Fish Gould — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jedgould (talk • contribs)

http://www.dhnet.be/cine-tele/musique-festival/article/159206/les-vrais-musiciens-de-ca-plane-pour-moi.html

Lou Deprijck : "Tout est parti du texte de Pipou qui obligeait à un chant très saccadé, comme le faisaient, en Angleterre, les chanteurs punk alors à la mode. Moi, je n'ai amené au texte que le titre, en référence à une chanson de Michel Delpech, Tu me fais planer. Ce qu'on voulait faire, c'était du pogo-pogo, la danse des punks. Une espèce de pastiche. J'avais trois accords simples, la mi et ré, et des musiciens que j'avais choisis sur mesure. Je ne voulais pas des virtuoses mais des gars un peu sauvages. Une fois en studio, avec ce texte et mes trois accords, je leur ai dit Débrouillez-vous et on l'a fait."

"Everything started from the text of Pipou which required a very staccato singing, as did, in England, the then fashionable punk singers. I only brought to the text the title, by reference to a song by Michel Delpech, Tu me fais planer. What we wanted to do was pogo-pogoing, the punk dance. A kind of pastiche. I had three simple chords, the E and D, and musicians that I had chosen to fit the bill. I did not want virtuosos but guys a little bit wild. Once in the studio, with this text and my three chords, I told them "Get by yourselves" and we did it."

http://archives.lesoir.be/lou-deprijck-un-megatube-ca-plane-pour-moi-une-doublure_t-20010810-Z0KTDU.a.html?&v5=1

Un pastiche de l'ère punk

Considéré comme un pastiche, une caricature de l'ère punk, voire un clin d'oeil à sa figure emblématique, Johnny Rotten, «Ça plane pour moi» est devenu un hymne pour toute une génération. Au point de faire craquer Peter Townshend en personne: «Plastic Bertrand chante et saute partout avec une expression de bonheur sur le visage. Il est frais, rose et heureux comme si le monde était merveilleux. Ce clown au demeurant sympathique a complètement désamorcé le mouvement punk. Sa chanson n'en demeure pas moins superbe. Surtout le Ouh ouh ouh ouhâ. Ma fille adore ça...», confiera le guitariste des Who dans la revue rock «Best».

A pastiche of the punk era

Regarded as a pastiche, a caricature of the punk era, even a nod to its iconic figure, Johnny Rotten, "Ça plane pour moi" has become an anthem for a whole generation. To the point of breaking Peter Townshend himself down : "Plastic Bertrand sings and jumps around with an expression of happiness on his face. He is fresh, pink and happy as if the world was wonderful. This friendly clown completely defused the punk movement. His song remains superb. Especially the "Ooh ooh ooh Ouha". My daughter loves it ...", confided the guitarist of The Who in the rock magazine "Best".

http://www.allansporttelevie.be/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=20

"La chanson Ça plane pour moi, composée par Lou Deprijck et écrite par Yvan Lacomblez est sortie en 1977. C'est désormais l'un des grands classiques punk-new-wave-pop, malgré ses textes en français." "Lorsque Lou Deprijck créa ce formidable pastiche de musicien punk, il en inventa le nom de toutes pièces en combinant, d'un côté, le plastique si cher aux punks et, de l'autre, le nom de Bert Bertrand, journaliste rock belge qui incarnait à merveille le microcosme belge du punk durant la deuxième moitié des seventies."

"The song Ça plane pour moi, composed by Lou Deprijck and written by Yvan Lacomblez was released in 1977. This is now one of the greatest punk-new-wave-pop classics, although its lyrics are in French." "When Lou Deprijck created this wonderful pastiche of punk musician, he invented the name by combining, on the one hand, the plastic so dear to the punks and, on the other hand, the name of Bert Bertrand, Belgian rock journalist who wonderfully played Belgian microcosm of punk during the second half of the seventies."

http://biographie.sorties.francetv.fr/plastic-bertrand-idb-234cbd532

"Parodie du mouvement punk, cette chanson connaît un succès planétaire et devient l’un des grands classiques du punk-new-wave-pop, que de nombreux groupes tels que Telex, Sonic Youth, les Red Hot Chili Peppers et même U2 en 2007 reprendront. Le look pastiche du chanteur, dont la voix railleuse crée un décalage, en fait une icône au sein du milieu musical."

"Parody of the punk movement, this song has met a worldwide success and became one of the greatest punk-new-wave-pop classics, that many groups such as Telex, Sonic Youth, Red Hot Chili Peppers and even U2 in 2007 covered. The pastiche look of the singer, whose mocking voice creates a contrast, makes of him an icon within the musical scene."

It's clear this song was linked with the punk movement isn't it ? But you've probably seen that two of these sources talk about a "punk-new-wave-pop" classic, so I agree with new wave. But its importance in the punk movement has to be taken into account. So after all this debate, I suggest punk rock should be added after new wave (as New wave, Punk rock) so everybody would be happy with it. 86.214.54.113 (talk) 18:14, 9 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It's probably more appropriate to make a reference to the song's status ss Punk parody in the body of the artilce rather than change the genre. ''' Flat Out   let's discuss it   11:09, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

If it's the only thing I can do to talk about punk on this Wikipedia page, I would follow your advice. In this case, I would use the references I added on this talk page and I would create a new section (a Background section for example). 86.214.54.113 (talk) 20:17, 10 June 2013 (UTC)


 * FWIW,in my opinion, this song is much closer to glam-rock than it is to Punk or New Wave. The use of the I-IV-V chords and the Beach Boys / Doowop chorus were common in glam, and hence considered more or less anathema by Punks of the day. Perhaps it's author wanted it to be Punk, but he failed, I think. It sounds nothing like any Punk bands that were current in '77 (Sex Pistols, Crass, etc). It could sound somewhat similar to some Ramones songs, but honestly, I barely consider them to be actual Punk Rock, either. All of which is neither here nor there, since it's just my (somewhat educated) opinion. Eaglizard (talk) 01:13, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Nonsensical French Lyrics
Now I'm no French expert by any means, but I have managed (after a very brief internet search) to come across the website of a Mr. David Gibb (http://www.david.gibbs.co.uk/plastic/plastic_lyrics.htm) that provides what seems to be a couple of sensical translations of the lyrics. In addition, he links to an older translation on a separate site (http://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/plasticbertrand.htm) providing another alternative, but still sensical set of lyrics.

All of these translation attempts seem to provide a coherent story around which the song is based.

Unfortunately, at present I have neither the time nor inclination to properly review this information or the wiki page. Nor have I the same to research any offical sources for confirmation. I just wanted to put the information out there as it would seem to dispell the myth that the song is largely 'non-sensical'. If this turns out to be true, the references to a 'largely non-sensical' song will be inaccurate and the article should be updated to reflect the accuracy.


 * Indeed good sir. Even with my limited french and limited understanding of the (sub-)cultures of this era, this song is one sexual innuendo after another. Nonsensical ... sure ... "You are the king in bed. That she tells me in passing. I Am the king in bed!" No wonder that guy is so happy. 2A01:C23:C006:2700:F0D4:9009:A5FA:37A5 (talk) 17:44, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Artistic expression
I am a little concerned with the inclusion of a significant section of a critical article by someone called Steve Huey. Especially his claims of nonsensical French lyrics.


 * Deprijck is known for this rather loose adherence to historical truth in favor of what fits his current needs best. Deprijck lives in Pattaya, Thailand. This city runs on the "don't ask - don't tell"-principle. There is not a single prostitute there. All is okay there if it happens and stays behind closed doors. Of course Ça plane pour moi is absolutely free of any sexual innuendo. Of course. 2A01:C23:C04B:9200:7C4E:1838:DC4:20F6 (talk) 18:55, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

The vocals are as much an artistic expression as the music. Few understand the vocals in classical opera. Most of the Beatles lyrics, especially their later work, featured nonsensical lyrics as artistic expression.

Songs are not, (or rarely at least,) manifestos. They are artistic expressions. Steve Huey is expressing a personal opinion. His views belong where they are and not in Wikipedia.

I propose altering the paragraph from:

"Ça plane pour moi" is a three-chord rocker[8][12] which features nonsensical French lyrics with occasional lines in English.[12] Steve Huey from AllMusic describes the song melody as a "four-note hook which sounds like something straight out of an early Beach Boys or Four Seasons song" that Roger Jouret (Plastic Bertrand) sings in a "dead-on falsetto".[12] This melody is created by "mildly distorted guitars, plus a steadily pumping rhythm section and an old-time rock & roll-style saxophone" which, according to him, is "hardly used for anything other than rhythmic accompaniment".[12] He also qualifies Jouret's voice as "cartoonish". His voice "stays in a monotone as he recites all the lyrics".[12]

to:

"Ça plane pour moi" is a three-chord rocker[8][12] which features a flat, rapid delivery. The verses are between seven and eight lines long, with up to six lines as a single phrase. surfingus (talk) 10:42, 27 August 2019 (UTC)


 * At least the "nonsensical" is strange by Wikipedia standards, because it is POV. 2A01:C23:C006:2700:F0D4:9009:A5FA:37A5 (talk) 18:16, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Use in soundtracks
I do not know why the use of Ça plane pour moi in soundtracks has been removed from the page. It was informative to know that it was used both in an episode of Scooby Doo (http://scoobydoo.wikia.com/wiki/Ready_to_Scare) and, shortly thereafter, in the soundtrack of 127 Hours, a movie in which the main character repeatedly thinks about Scooby Doo (http://www.avclub.com/article/127-hours-shouldnt-have-worked-heres-why-it-does-206360). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.133.144.55 (talk) 21:57, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Composition
I don't think it makes sense to quote the AllMusic review, because the reviewer is under the impression that Roger Jouret (Plastic Bertrand) is singing the song, when it's been established that this is not the case. Do you think a way to fix this is to make a note stating that the singer who the reviewer is referring to is actually Lou Deprijck? Spiff666 (talk) 13:24, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation of title
This is actually pronounced /sa plan/. Wathiik (talk) 11:30, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Leila K's version
It's strange that Leila K was not mentioned once in the text.

Translation
I have seen a source that says that the song is actually in the obsolete Belgian dialect of French, which changes the meaning of certain phrases. Also, the title was translated as "This Life's For Me" on the English release of the record, so that's probably the best translation, although I've seen everything from "It Slides For Me", "I'm Really High", to "Everything's Groovy". I'd like to add a section on the meaning and translation of the lyric, but I don't know if I can find enough valid cites. Eaglizard (talk) 01:27, 24 December 2018 (UTC)