Talk:12th Frontier Force Regiment

Overlapping pages: 12 Frontier Force Regiment and Frontier Force Regiment
I also see that Wiki has a page on the Frontier Force Regiment, which is the same thing as 12 FFReg (although modern FFReg is a merger of 12th FFReg, 13th FF Rifles etc). Should these pages not be merged?Kirrages 16:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes I saw that after i had written the article. Although the article itself is incorrect. It would appear that we have three separate periods of evolution for this unit. As you point out The Frontier Force Regiment is very different from the 12th Frontier Force Regiment. One is the amalgamation of the Frontier Force Rifles, the Pathan Regiment and the Frontier Force Regiment under post independence rule. The other is its much earlier predecessor under the Raj. The third is the even earlier gathering of (I think) five regiments into one brigade. They can be linked but i think there should be three separate articles because of the time periods and national periods involved. What do you think? Tristan benedict 21:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the period from mid 19th century to the end of WWII can be fitted under one article. The infantry battalions of 12 FFReg created in 1923 were the original 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Sikh Local Infantry Regiments and the Guides Infantry  created under the original 1846 authorisation for for a Frontier Brigade. Although the Brigade tag was dropped in 1847 the units (along with others) continued to have the (Frontier Force) tag in their name. In the 1903 re-organisation (which inter alia introduced a single consecutive numbering scheme for all the regiments (see List of Regiments of the British Indian Army (1903)) the 4 Sikh regiments were renumbered 51, 52, 53 and 54 Sikhs (Frontier Force) and in the 1923 reorganisation they were merged into the new 12 FFReg as 1-4BNs (55-59 Regts became 1-5BNs FFRifles) - see List of regiments of the British Indian Army (1922). Can't find the Guides Infantry in the 1903 list (should be Queen Victoria's Own Corps of Guides (Frontier Force)) which became 5 BN.

So there is a clear continuity. My father used to use the 1st Sikhs and 1st Bn FFReg names interchangeably and the the WWII Frontier Force Reg officers certainly saw their origen as 1846. I'm not sure how much sense this makes to you but it is very succinctly explained at http:/pakdef.info/pakmilitary/army/regiments/12ffreg.html . What this article doesn't point out is that the reorganisation post partition resulted in the battalion numbering going haywire. 1-4 FFReg became 3,4,5 and 6 whilst 1,2,4,5 and 6 FFRif became 7, 8 9,10 and 1!! Aaaaagh!! I've got quite a lot of pre-war historical information on the 1st Sikhs but not much on the other battalions. I suspect the 12 FFReg history written in 1962 by WEH Conden would be gold dust.....but I'm told it's v. scarce and the price would suggest it's printed in gold! Kirrages 23:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. --dashiellx (talk) 15:14, 28 April 2008 (UTC)