Talk:1918 Christmas crisis

Name
Shouldn't this be renamed to Battle of the Berlin Schloss?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 06:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Request to rename to "Battle of the Berlin Palace"
I am requesting that this page be renamed "Battle of the Berlin Palace".

The major objection to the title is the word "Schloss". There is no reason to use the German word rather than the English translation "Palace". If nothing else, the Wikipedia page about the building is "Berlin Palace", not "Berlin Schloss".

Changing "Skirmish" to "Battle" can be justified by the facts that 1) the event doesn't quite fit the English definition ('an episode of irregular or unpremeditated fighting, especially between small or outlying parts of armies or fleets') and 2) the German names for the event (Weihnachtskämpfe and Weihnachtsaufstand) mean Christmas battles / Christmas uprising; skirmish is usually Scharmützel.

Please join the conversation here. GHStPaulMN (talk) 14:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * While "Schloss" isn't equivalent to "palace", this particular Schloss is indeed called a palace most of the time, so that bit is fine. However, I am not convinced that "battle" is the most widely used term, and "Battle of the Berlin Palace" has no Ghits other than this page. Perhaps Christmas fights? I find a few hits for that phrase at least. —Kusma (talk) 15:59, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There doesn't seem to be a common name for the event in English – in fact a lot of sources that write about it don't mention a name at all. When it is called something, 'Berlin Palace' doesn't seem to show up much if at all, so I'm now in favor of using something with Christmas, like the German. I don't much like 'fights', though, because it doesn't quite sound right with armed engagements. I did find several uses of 'Christmas Battle', notably in the translation of H.A. Winkler's Der Lange Weg nach Westen Bd. 1. It's also used in R. Gerwarth's November 1918 and A. Read's World on Fire. The translation of Winkler's Geschichte des Westens, Die Zeit der Weltkriege uses 'Berlin Chistmas Struggles'. My vote now would be for either 'Berlin Christmas Battles' or 'Berlin Christmas Struggles'. Putting 'Berlin' in the name makes sense to me to distinguish it from other Christmas fighting. GHStPaulMN (talk) 14:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I just found a much larger number of references to 'Christmas crisis'. That's another option even though it isn't as close to the German. It, too, could include 'Berlin', or (something else I just thought of for all the options) append '1918'. GHStPaulMN (talk) 17:56, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "1918 Christmas crisis" or something like that would work for me. "Christmas crisis" on its own means a huge number of other things, both in history and psychology. —Kusma (talk) 11:36, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
 * OK, unless anyone raises an objection, "1918 Christmas crisis" it is. I plan to do the move & change the name in affected articles tomorrow, 18 March. GHStPaulMN (talk) 14:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)