Talk:1946 North Vietnamese legislative election

Change the name of article to 1946 Vietnamese National Assembly election
Hanam190552 (talk) 16:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)The election was held in national wide, we should let the name is 1946 Vietnamese National Assembly electionHanam190552 (talk) 16:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Firstly the proposed name is not in line with the naming convention WP:NC-GAL. Secondly, the statement about it being a nationwide election does not appear to be true. According to the Nohlen book "Direct national elections were first held in 1946 on the territory controlled by the DRV." (DRV being North Vietnam). Number   5  7  16:43, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Firstly, on March 9th, 1945, French colonist surrendered the Empire of Japan and accepted to bring all control in Indochina, including Vietnam, to Japanese, you can see in in Japanese coup d'état in French Indochina. Secondly, on August 19th, 1945, Japanese colonist surrendered Việt Minh, the main force fighting against Japanese in Vietnam, and on August 22th, 1945, Emperor Bảo Đại, the highest leader of Empire of Vietnam and Nguyễn Dynasty abdicated, granted all control and bureaucracies to Việt Minh and recognised that the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was the new and the only administration of Vietnam. Thirdly, on September 2nd, 1945, Ho Chi Minh the highest leader of Việt Minh declared the official independence of Vietnam and the establishment of Democratic Republic of Vietnam. As the result, the DRV really controled over all territory since the surrender of Japanese on August 19th, 1945.

In Vietnam, parliament is called as National Assembly because it has only lower house.

So the name of the 1946 Vietnamese National Assembly election is eligible to this contextHanam190552 (talk) 02:56, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Hanam190552 (talk) 04:10, 14 November 2015 (UTC)This is the list of member of the first National Assembly

The list contains 333 elected candidates and 70 others became member of the first National Assembly without election. Members are listed in accordance with voting areas, where they are elected,. The election was held in all areas of Vietnam, including Saigon (Chợ lớn and Gia Định), Hue, Hai Phong and Cochichina (Rạch Giá, Bạc Liêu, Biên Hòa, Thủ Dầu Một, Tân An, Mỹ Tho, Bến Tre, Trà Vinh, Vĩnh Long, Sa Đéc, Hà Tiên, Long Xuyên, Cần Thơ, Sóc Trăng, Gò Công)


 * Hà Nội
 * 1) Hồ Chí Minh
 * 2) Hoàng Văn Đức
 * 3) Vũ Đình Hòe
 * 4) Trần Duy Hưng
 * 5) Nguyễn Văn Luyện
 * 6) Nguyễn Thị Thục Viên


 * Lai Châu
 * 1) Điêu Chính Chân
 * 2) Điêu Chính Thu


 * Lao Cai
 * 1) Nguyễn Viết Quỳnh


 * Hà Giang
 * 1) Nguyễn Tri Phương (Thanh Phong)
 * 2) Vương Chí Thành


 * Cao Bằng
 * 1) Nguyễn Viết Thành (Vũ Anh)
 * 2) Nguyễn Khánh Kim
 * 3) Dương Đại Lâm
 * 4) Giàng Văn Pao (Kim Đao)


 * Lạng Sơn
 * 1) Lâm Trọng Thư
 * 2) Lê Huyền Trang
 * 3) Lương Như Ý


 * Hải Ninh
 * 1) Hoàng Văn Hà
 * 2) Nguyễn Hiền
 * 3) Hoàng Mậu Thành


 * Quảng Yên
 * 1) Lê Văn Cơ
 * 2) Nguyễn Văn Luận (Trần Danh Tuyên)
 * 3) Trịnh Tam Tỉnh


 * Sơn La
 * 1) Sa Văn Minh
 * 2) Lò Văn San


 * Yên Bái
 * 1) Trần Đình Khánh
 * 2) Cầm Ngọc Lương


 * Tuyên Quang
 * 1) Ma Văn Kinh
 * 2) Tạ Quốc Tiêu (Tạ Xuân Thu)


 * Bắc Cạn
 * 1) Nông Văn Lạc
 * 2) Hoàng Hùng Sơn


 * Thái Nguyên
 * 1) Lê Trung Đình
 * 2) Đặng Đức Thái
 * 3) Trần Mai (Nguyễn Trung Thành)


 * Bắc Giang
 * 1) Nguyễn Mạnh Khuông (Lê Hữu Chỉnh)
 * 2) Nguyễn Dương Hồng
 * 3) Ninh Văn Phan
 * 4) Trần Kim Xuyến


 * Bắc Ninh
 * 1) Bạch Di (Vi Dân)
 * 2) Dương Đức Hiền
 * 3) Vũ Thị Khôi (Phan Thị Thục)
 * 4) Ngô Thế Phúc
 * 5) Nguyễn Huy Tưởng
 * 6) Nguyễn Duy Thân
 * 7) Đỗ Trọng Thìn
 * 8) Nguyễn Văn Chung


 * Phú Thọ
 * 1) Lê Đồng
 * 2) Nguyễn Hữu Hưng
 * 3) Nguyễn Thiện Ngữ (Việt Thanh)
 * 4) Sầm Văn Ngữ
 * 5) Phạm Bích Tuế


 * Vĩnh Yên
 * 1) Đặng Việt Châu
 * 2) Nguyễn Quý Hùng
 * 3) Nguyễn Công Kiêm
 * 4) Nguyễn Hữu Tạo


 * Phúc Yên
 * 1) Nguyễn Hữu Ngô
 * 2) Lê Đình Thiệp
 * 3) Lê Huy Vân


 * Hòa Bình
 * 1) Quách Công Chẩm


 * Sơn Tây
 * 1) Lê Văn Hòe
 * 2) Đào Trọng Kim
 * 3) Phạm Khắc Minh (Nguyễn Quốc Hồng)
 * 4) Khuất Duy Tiến
 * 5) Nguyễn Văn Thái


 * Hà Đông
 * 1) Trịnh Văn Bô
 * 2) Cù Huy Cận
 * 3) Đỗ Đức Dục
 * 4) Nguyễn Đỗ Cung
 * 5) Bùi Bằng Đoàn
 * 6) Hoàng Minh Giám
 * 7) Đặng Kim Giang
 * 8) Trần Trọng Hiệu
 * 9) Bùi Vinh Liên
 * 10) Nguyễn Đăng Long
 * 11) Trương Thị Mỹ
 * 12) Nguyễn Trọng Nhâm (Xuân Thủy)
 * 13) Dương Đức Quyên
 * 14) Hoàng Tích Trí


 * Hải Dương
 * 1) Bùi Thị Diệm (Lê Phương)
 * 2) Ngô Xuân Diệu
 * 3) Vũ Duy Hiệu
 * 4) Nguyễn Hữu Túc (Nguyễn Công Hòa)
 * 5) Lương Duyên Lạc
 * 6) Đinh Văn Mão
 * 7) Phan Tất Tuân
 * 8) Đỗ Chu Tuấn (Chu Anh)
 * 9) Nguyễn Trọng Yên
 * 10) Lê Văn Khải
 * 11) Bùi Hữu Sủng
 * 12) Ngô Quang Vũ


 * Hưng Yên
 * 1) Phạm Quang Điện (Phạm Quốc Dân)
 * 2) Trịnh Quý Đông
 * 3) Lương Hiền (Lê Đông)
 * 4) Lê Xuân Hựu
 * 5) Nguyễn Văn Xuân (kỹ sư)
 * 6) Cao Thị Khương
 * 7) Bồ Xuân Luật
 * 8) Nguyễn Mạnh Hà


 * Hải Phòng
 * 1) Nguyễn Sơn Hà
 * 2) Trương Trung Phụng
 * 3) Nguyễn Đình Thi


 * Kiến An
 * 1) Phạm Văn Bỉnh
 * 2) Tô Quang Đẩu
 * 3) Đào Trọng Hiến
 * 4) Nguyễn Văn Sơ
 * 5) Nguyễn Xiển
 * 6) Nguyễn Thiện Hước
 * 7) Dương Tư Nguyên


 * Thái Bình
 * 1) Bùi Đăng Chi (Ngô Tất Tiến)
 * 2) Đỗ Hữu Dư
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Năng
 * 4) Phan Tư Nghĩa
 * 5) Nguyễn Văn Phiếm (Trần Dương)
 * 6) Nguyễn Duy Phiên
 * 7) Lê Tùng Sơn
 * 8) Nguyễn Đức Tiến
 * 9) Hoàng Đạo Thúy
 * 10) Lê Thanh Thủy (Nguyễn Thành Lê)
 * 11) Vũ Quý Mão
 * 12) Vũ Nhận
 * 13) Trần Đình Trọng


 * Nam Định
 * 1) Đinh Khắc Anh
 * 2) Vũ Đức Âu
 * 3) Bùi Trình Khiêm
 * 4) Bùi Xuân Mẫn
 * 5) Lê Trọng Nghĩa (Đoàn Xuân Tín)
 * 6) Vũ Xuân Sắc
 * 7) Đặng Châu Tuệ
 * 8) Hồ Đức Thành
 * 9) Đặng Xuân Thiều
 * 10) Nguyễn Văn Trân
 * 11) Nguyễn Tấn Gi Trọng
 * 12) Đỗ Văn Đoan
 * 13) Trịnh Hoài Đức
 * 14) Đoàn Phú Tứ
 * 15) Vũ Ngọc Trác


 * Thành phố Nam Định
 * 1) Trần Huy Liệu
 * 2) Nguyễn Văn Tố


 * Hà Nam
 * 1) Dương Thế Châu
 * 2) Nguyễn Trọng Đạt (Lê Thành)
 * 3) Phạm Ngọc Điển
 * 4) Lê Tư Lành
 * 5) Nguyễn Đức Quỳ (Đào Thành Kim)
 * 6) Đinh Gia Trinh
 * 7) Phạm Bá Trực


 * Ninh Bình
 * 1) Trương Văn Công
 * 2) Trần Công Chính
 * 3) Ngô Tử Hạ
 * 4) Phạm Văn Hồng
 * 5) Phan Văn Lợi
 * 6) Lê Văn Cầu


 * Thanh Hóa
 * 1) Lê Tất Đắc
 * 2) Lưu Văn Bàn (Lưu Cộng Hòa)
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Huệ
 * 4) Đặng Văn Hỷ
 * 5) Lê Đỗ Kỳ
 * 6) Nguyễn Xuân Kỳ
 * 7) Hoàng Sĩ Oánh
 * 8) Phạm Thúc Tiêu
 * 9) Đặng Phúc Thông
 * 10) Lê Trọng Thuần (Thoàn)
 * 11) Nguyễn Đình Thực
 * 12) Lê Trần Đức
 * 13) Nguyễn Hữu Ngọc
 * 14) Nguyễn Văn Tĩnh (Tinh Hoa)
 * 15) Nguyễn Vĩnh Thụy (Bảo Đại)


 * Nghệ An
 * 1) Chu Văn Biên
 * 2) Nguyễn Côn
 * 3) Võ Nguyên Giáp
 * 4) Hoàng Văn Hoan
 * 5) Phan Hữu Khiêm
 * 6) Lê Viết Lượng
 * 7) Đặng Thai Mai
 * 8) Trần Mai
 * 9) Tôn Thị Quế
 * 10) Nguyễn Duy Trinh
 * 11) Sầm Văn Kim
 * 12) Nguyễn Đình Pháp


 * Vinh - Bến Thủy
 * 1) Trần Văn Cung
 * 2) Nguyễn Tạo (Nguyễn Phú Doãn)


 * Hà Tĩnh
 * 1) Trần Bình
 * 2) Tạ Quang Bửu
 * 3) Trần Hữu Duyệt
 * 4) Lê Lộc
 * 5) Vương Đình Lương
 * 6) Hồ Văn Ninh
 * 7) Nguyễn Trọng Nhã


 * Quảng Bình
 * 1) Hoàng Văn Diệm
 * 2) Võ Thuần Nho
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Đồng (Đồng Sĩ Nguyên)
 * 4) Võ Văn Quyết
 * 5) Trần Hường (Lê Vũ)


 * Quảng Trị
 * 1) Lê Thế Hiếu
 * 2) Trần Mạnh Quỳ
 * 3) Đặng Thí


 * Thừa Thiên
 * 1) Hoàng Anh
 * 2) Nguyễn Kinh Chi
 * 3) Trần Đăng Khoa
 * 4) Đoàn Trọng Truyến
 * 5) Thích Mật Thể


 * Huế
 * 1) Trần Hữu Dực
 * 2) Tôn Quang Phiệt


 * Đà Nẵng
 * 1) Lê Dung


 * Quảng Nam
 * 1) Phạm Bằng
 * 2) Phan Bôi (Hoàng Hữu Nam)
 * 3) Phan Diêu
 * 4) Lê Văn Hiến
 * 5) Huỳnh Ngọc Huệ
 * 6) Nguyễn Thế Kỷ
 * 7) Nguyễn Xuân Nhĩ
 * 8) Võ Sạ
 * 9) Trần Tống
 * 10) Đinh Tựu
 * 11) Phan Thao
 * 12) Lâm Quang Thự
 * 13) Trần Đình Tri
 * 14) Trần Viện
 * 15) Lê Thị Xuyến


 * Quảng Ngãi
 * 1) Nguyễn Duân
 * 2) Phạm Văn Đồng
 * 3) Lê Hồng Long
 * 4) Phạm Quang Lược
 * 5) Hà Văn Tính
 * 6) Hồ Thiết
 * 7) Nguyễn Trí
 * 8) Đinh May


 * Bình Định
 * 1) Phan Chấn
 * 2) Trần Huy
 * 3) Trần Quang Khanh
 * 4) Trần Lê
 * 5) Lê Văn Mai
 * 6) Nguyễn Xuân Như
 * 7) Phạm Sanh
 * 8) Nguyễn Đức Tín
 * 9) Trần Tín
 * 10) Mong Thoong
 * 11) Huỳnh Triếp
 * 12) Nguyễn Hoàng


 * Phú Yên
 * 1) Huỳnh Lưu
 * 2) Phạm Ngọc Quế
 * 3) Trần Quỳnh
 * 4) Phan Lưu Thanh


 * Khánh Hòa
 * 1) Nguyễn Văn Chi
 * 2) Đào Thiện Thi
 * 3) Tôn Thất Vỹ (Nguyễn Minh Vỹ)


 * Kon Tum
 * 1) Djouik John
 * 2) Ouok
 * 3) Lưu Phương


 * Plê Cu
 * 1) Nguyễn Bá Hòe
 * 2) Nay Phin
 * 3) Recom Rock


 * Lâm Viên
 * 1) Ngô Duy Diễn (Ngô Duy Đích)


 * Đắc Lắc
 * 1) Y Ngông Niê Kdăm
 * 2) Y Wang Mlô Duôn Du


 * Phan Rang
 * 1) Trần Thi
 * 2) Lưu Ái


 * Bình Thuận
 * 1) Huỳnh Tấn Dõi
 * 2) Nguyễn Tương


 * Đồng Nai Thượng
 * 1) Tuprong Hiếu


 * Thành phố Sài Gòn - Chợ Lớn
 * 1) Huỳnh Văn Tiểng
 * 2) Lý Chính Thắng
 * 3) Tôn Đức Thắng
 * 4) Nguyễn Văn Trấn
 * 5) Hoàng Đôn Văn


 * Chợ Lớn
 * 1) Lê Đình Cư
 * 2) Nguyễn Văn Cương
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Hoành
 * 4) Kiều Tấn Lập
 * 5) Vũ Văn Lương


 * Gia Định
 * 1) Phạm Văn Khung
 * 2) Thái Văn Lung
 * 3) Lê Văn Mảng
 * 4) Trịnh Thị Miếng
 * 5) Trần Văn Nguyên
 * 6) Nguyễn Oắng


 * Bà Rịa
 * 1) Dương Bạch Mai


 * Biên Hòa
 * 1) Phạm Văn Búng
 * 2) Hoàng Minh Châu
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Nghĩa
 * 4) Siểng


 * Thủ Dầu Một
 * 1) Nguyễn Văn Long
 * 2) Nguyễn Đức Nhẫn
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Triết


 * Tân An
 * 1) Huỳnh Văn Gấm
 * 2) Tống Đức Viễn


 * Mỹ Tho
 * 1) Diệp Ba
 * 2) Nguyễn Phi Hoanh
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Nguyên
 * 4) Ngô Tấn Nhơn
 * 5) Huỳnh Tấn Phát
 * 6) Nguyễn Thị Thập (Nguyễn Thị Ngọc Tốt)


 * Bến Tre
 * 1) Phạm Văn Bạch
 * 2) Nguyễn Văn Cái
 * 3) Đỗ Phát Quang
 * 4) Nguyễn Tẩu
 * 5) Trần Quế Tử


 * Trà Vinh
 * 1) Nguyễn Duy Khâm
 * 2) Dung Văn Khúc (Dương Quang Đông)
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Tây (Thanh Sơn)


 * Vĩnh Long
 * 1) Nguyễn Văn Phát
 * 2) Phan Văn Sử
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Thiệt


 * Sa Đéc
 * 1) Nguyễn Văn Cửu
 * 2) Nguyễn Văn Huê
 * 3) Nguyễn Văn Kiểu
 * 4) Trương Hữu Tước


 * Châu Đốc
 * 1) Kim Chouru
 * 2) Hồ Triệu Ngạn
 * 3) Trương Tấn Phát


 * Hà Tiên
 * 1) Nguyễn Văn Kỉnh


 * Long Xuyên
 * 1) Dương Văn Ân
 * 2) Ung Văn Khiêm
 * 3) Nguyễn Hữu Nghi
 * 4) Nguyễn Văn Hưởng


 * Cần Thơ
 * 1) Phan Lương Báu
 * 2) Trần Ngọc Danh
 * 3) Nguyễn Đăng
 * 4) Đặng Văn Quang
 * 5) Trần Ngọc Quế
 * 6) Đỗ Văn Y


 * Sóc Trăng
 * 1) Phan Văn Chiêu
 * 2) Dương Kỳ Hiệp
 * 3) Lê Thành Phiên


 * Gò Công
 * 1) Nguyễn Văn Côn
 * 2) Trần Công Tường


 * Rạch Giá
 * 1) Nguyễn Ngọc Bích
 * 2) Trần Văn Luân
 * 3) Huỳnh Bá Nhung
 * 4) Nguyễn Văn Tạo


 * Bạc Liêu
 * 1) Nguyễn Văn Đính (Hoàng Kế Ngô)
 * 2) Ngô Thị Huệ
 * 3) Cao Triều PhátHanam190552 (talk) 04:10, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

We must not Việt Minh to identify with Indochinese Communist Party-Vietnam Workers' Party
Việt Minh is the Vietnamese name of Allied League for the Independence of Vietnam, who is in allies of World War II to fight against Axis. Indochinese Communist Party, the old name of Vietnam Workers' Party, is a part of Việt Minh. In the election, Ho Chi Minh and doctor Tran Duy Hung were representatives of Việt Minh in Hanoi. Việt Minh, not a communist party, was a party in the 1946 election. All of Vietnamese sources use Việt Minh, not Indochinese Communist Party or Vietnam Workers' Party.Hanam190552 (talk) 03:36, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * This is English-language Wikipedia, and English sources use Indochinese Communist Party-Vietnam Workers' Party. Your complaint should be redirected to the Vietnamese Wikipedia if you have a problem with the content there. Number   5  7  16:05, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Same dispute revisited
So, a couple of new accounts have showed up and have restarted the dispute. There appear to be two main things disputed here: Firstly, the extent of the elections. The Nohlen book is clear that it was only in the areas controlled by the North Vietnamese government (page 324: "Direct national elections were first held in 1946 on the territory controlled by the DRV"). On the other hand, two sources are provided for the claim that it was a nationwide election, this and this. These both appear to be official government sources, which I do not believe are reliable – this book notes that "Predictably, the Propaganda Ministry asserted enthusiastic southern participation in the elections."
 * 1) Whether the elections were nationwide or not, and
 * 2) The results.

Secondly, the results. We have two sources with quite different results. One is an academic source, the other is this, which on closer inspection does not actually contain the entirety of the results in the table.

Of further note, this version of the page is a clear copyright violation of this source. If it's added again, I will be requesting the page be locked. Number  5  7  22:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

New source in support of 1946 Vietnamese National Assembly election
With regards to sources provided by the Vietnamese government, which can be deemed unreliable, I have found another trusted source indicating the 1946 election was nationwide. The source is from Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU). As you can see in the IPU report about the 1976 election (link: http://archive.ipu.org/parline-e/reports/arc/VIETNAM_1976.PDF), it was clearly stated in Page 70 that "The 1976 legislative elections represented the first nation-wide balloting in Viet Nam since 1946." This explicitly implied that the 1946 election was conducted in the entire Vietnam following the August Revolution of 1945. IPU is a global inter-parliamentary institution established in 1889 with 178 members and has permanent observer status at the United Nations General Assembly. I am pretty sure that their statement must be reliable enough. --Nguyen.asia.18 (talk) 15:02, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The IPU source is not really independent as the information for each country is usually supplied by the parliament in question, hence why the language in the source is so positive about an uncompetitive election ("the electorate was called upon to strengthen the soon-to-be unified State."
 * Various books support the existing text in the article (noting that it was an election in the areas of Vietnam controlled by the entity that became North Vietnam) – e.g. this ("Southern Vietnam had only seven of twenty provinces listed in the National Assembly roster, suggesting that local authorities in thirteen provinces had been unable to conduct even rudimentary election exercises") or this ("Viet Minh-sponsored elections were held in January 1946 in Tonkin, in Annam, and in the parts of Cochinchina where the French — who had returned to Sagon with the expectation of re-establishing their authority in the country — had little control.")
 * This is basically the same as 1948 North Korean parliamentary election, which was claimed to be a nationwide vote and had seats reserved for South Korea, but only really took place in the parts of Korea controlled by the DPRK government. Number   5  7  15:44, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. But the problem with using the term "North Vietnam" is that it may not accurately reflect the territory of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) at the time the election took place. Vietnam is only divided until the Geneva Accords of 1954. Viet Minh gained the territories of the former Empire of Vietnam from the Japanese, established the DRV in most of nowadays' Vietnam in 1945 and held the legislative election in 1946 in Tonkin (North), Annam (Central) and parts of Cocochina (South) (as you said above). Between 1946 (when the French came back) and 1954, the DRV lost most territories to the French-controlled State of Vietnam (which later known as South Vietnam when America replaced France and sponsor the Republic of Vietnam). By using the term "North Vietnam" to the 1946 election, it could be confusing to the readers as it implied the election only took place in the 17th parallel north (which is territory of the DRV after 1954, which commonly known as North Vietnam). In short, there was no "North Vietnam" before 1954. Using that term may be confusing to the readers. If we can't agree on using the term "Vietnam" for the 1946 election, I would suggest use the term "1946 Democratic Republic of Vietnam legislative election" instead of the current title. Nguyen.asia.18 (talk) 01:15, 12 January 2020 (UTC)