Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season

Another Error
I haven't read through all that much, but in talks with a professor at Dalhousie University, it seems we are both under the impression that the number of Major Storms this year was 8. Now, I have done some research, and have found in the NHC's archives that they clearly state that Hurricane Beta is the 8th MAJOR STORM of the season.

The link can be found at

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/dis/al262005.discus.014.shtml?

and I would appreciate for someone to fix it.Sod Aries 21:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I've counted the storms and there seems to be only seven. See List of storms in the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. --tomf688 (talk - email) 14:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * We had this discussion last season too. Major hurricanes: Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Maria, Rita, Wilma, Beta = 7. NSLE 15:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably just an error made by the NHC.HurricaneCraze32 21:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Beta's TCR: "A peak intensity of 100 kt was reached around 0600 UTC 30 October, which resulted in the seventh, and last, major hurricane of the 2005 Atlantic season." -- RattleMan 21:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. Of the other storms, the closest any of them was to major status was Irene, and that was a mid-range Category 2. CrazyC83 23:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "Among these Category 5 storms were Hurricanes Katrina and Wilma, the former the costliest and the latter the most intense Atlantic hurricane on record." Could someone fix this sentence?65.9.15.183 (talk) 19:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * What's wrong with it? -- RattleMan 22:06, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * "Among these Category 5 storm were Hurricanes Katrina and Wilma, Katrina the costliest, and Wilma, was the most intense." Synthetical connections  ( talk ) 03:07, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Repeatedly shattering?
I don't think it makes sense to say `repeatedly shattering previous records' as it does in the opening sentence. Surely you only shatter a single record once and you shatter numerous records, but you can't repeatedly shatter records in a single season? The only way I can see it making sense is if the record was broken by the Atlantic basin during the season, then it was broken again by another basin during the same season, and then broken again by the Atlantic basin.


 * I have to disagree. To me the statement 'Repeatedly shattering' conveys the idea that a single record was broken multiple times. For instance, according to Wikipedia, the previous record for number of tropical storms was the 1933 hurricane season with 21 storms. The 2005 season broke this record with the formation of alpha and then broke the record again with the formation of beta, hence the record was broken repeatedly Tmckeage (talk) 17:31, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


 * If this is not the case I would recommend changing the sentence to read `shattering numerous records' to indicate several records were broken as indicated in the #Records_and_notable_events section.

Furthermore, the use of `previous' is superfluous as you can't shatter anything other than a previous record. It doesn't make sense to shatter future records. schroding79 (talk) 01:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Minor, but I agree, should be changed to "Repeatedly shattering multiple records" Tmckeage (talk) 17:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed not, one among many English prose boners - these hurricane articles may be rich in facts, but they are terribly written (really, average high-school level prose) and over-linked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antimatter33 (talk • contribs) 08:22, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.teorema.com.mx/articulos.php?id_sec=44&id_art=184
 * In 2005 Atlantic hurricane season on 2011-05-25 07:55:15, 404 Not Found
 * In 2005 Atlantic hurricane season on 2011-06-12 00:28:45, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 00:29, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 2
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://hurricane.atmos.colostate.edu/forecasts/2004/dec2004/}}
 * In 2005 Atlantic hurricane season on 2011-05-25 07:55:17, 404 Not Found
 * In 2005 Atlantic hurricane season on 2011-06-12 00:29:45, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 00:30, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Done Bevo74 (talk) 07:23, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

1950 loses majors record in reanalysis
With the recent 1950 reanalysis lowering the number of majors from eight to six, does 2005 gain a new record for number of majors? -- 140.202.10.134 (talk) 20:36, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It would appear so! ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 22:15, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Along with 1961 LlayReactorUltra (talk) 07:33, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Along with 1961 LlayReactorUltra (talk) 07:34, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Along with 1961 LlayReactorUltra (talk) 07:35, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

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Every hurricane
Why was this season so destructive? Renacares (talk) 09:20, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Vince
Vince is the first V named storm. It formed in cold waters near Africa. Acyclonxe (talk) 02:54, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Global Warming
There should probably be a reference to global warming regarding the 2005 hurricane season. 2600:1702:2340:9470:608D:7F16:6C6:C602 (talk) 23:31, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Why? There is no evidence that global warming contributed to the season's activity BananaIAm (talk) 23:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Statistic Table: Damage Sort Problems
There are issues when sorting the Season Statistics table by the Damage column:
 * Numbers in Millions and Billions are intermixed (e.g.: TS Delta and Cat1 Cindy are ranked higher than Cat5 Katrina).
 * "Minimal" is intermixed with "None" and "Unknown" (not even alphabetical ordering).

I'm not sure how you'd fix it — whether with a change to the sorting engine or addition of a hidden sort key — but fixing this problem is essential to the utility of the sorting feature … and will have to be done site-wide.

-- ໃː^Þ) 47.13.201.60 (talk) 04:45, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Urgent FA review needed
In my opinion, the article no longer meets FA criteria. We need a review urgently, considering more than 13 years have elapsed since the FA upgrade. --'' Java Hurricane  12:46, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:36, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Hurricane Vince on 2005-10-09, 1200.jpg

Merge Tropical Storm Zeta?

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
 * The result of this discussion was not merged. Tito xd (?!?) 23:13, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

A few users have suggested merging the article for Tropical Storm Zeta, and this possible merger is affecting the featured article status for this article. Zeta is notable and unusual in existing from December into January, but that fact is already covered in the 2005 AHS article, as well as List of off-season Atlantic hurricanes. It's also the latest forming Atlantic storm. On the other hand, merging the article might create undue weight toward the storm, given how long the 2005 season article already is. So I just wanted to open the discussion, in tandem with the other discussion above. I personally oppose such a merger, for the record. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 21:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose for its notability as a cross-year tropical cyclone. 🌧❄ϟ TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 21:13, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * So are all tropical cyclones that happen to cross the year notable for that fact as it happens quite a lot outside of the Atlantic.Jason Rees (talk) 23:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Strongly Oppose for the notability of the storm due to being the latest-forming cross-year cyclone, as well as the cyclone to have the name furthest down the list that's been used to date in the Atlantic.
 * ~ AC5230 (talk) 21:28, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It isnt the latest forming tropical cyclone in any basin as that honour goes to Tropical Cyclone Raquel which was named at 18z on June 30, which is the 2015-16 year local time and the 2014-15 season per UTC. I also feel that the fact that it is "the cyclone to have the name furthest down the list that's been used to date in the Atlantic" is trivial.Jason Rees (talk) 23:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

If you really want to merge Zeta, then try using good article reassessment to see if it's got enough info. Chicdat (talk) 10:48, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Again, I don't see the point. YE Pacific Hurricane 21:54, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge - There is very little reason to keep in the article and I feel that it is bloated and thus do not see how merging it would give the section undue weight or make this article a lot longer then it should be especially when it should be the size of an average Pacific Typhoon Season that covers all the systems. I also do not believe that tropical cyclones are automatically notable just because they happen to cross the calendar years and that the page size does not worry me and should not be used as a reason to give non-notable systems articles or justify why a section should be smaller then it should be in this article.Jason Rees (talk) 23:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

"2005 atlantic hurricane seasno" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect 2005 atlantic hurricane seasno. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 2 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards, SONIC  678  01:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

condense
The article is extremely long. Anyone, feel free to help condense. --WesternAtlanticCentral (talk) 15:15, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The article is about 70 kb worth of prose. That's an appropriate length for the busiest Atlantic hurricane season on record. Are there any parts that you feel go into too much detail? ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:52, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oil refiners. --WesternAtlanticCentral (talk) 16:32, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Given that Katrina was the costliest hurricane on record, I thought it was important to discuss some of the different aspects of its damage. Katrina has three paragraphs, which is a fair amount for such a significant hurricane. Are there any other parts that are excessively long? ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 14:42, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Info Box Error: With Eta-2020, the tie with 2005 is broken
Eta-2020 (just to future-proof the name) exceeds Zeta-2005, making 2020 the storm season with the most storms. Eta was a major hurricane (Cat 4) when it hit Nicaragua, for the major hurricane count. It's still going and projected to hit the US, so things may change further.

In any case, the Info Box needs correcting, and I don't know how. I suggest it be changed to, "Exceeded by 2020" or nothing since I presume every season doesn't have a list of seasons that exceed it.

I will leave edits to those (1) more capable, (2) more knowledgeable about the standards of these articles, and (3) those with a stake in the 2005 article. Be bold (but not rash).

Thank you for your time! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laguna CA (talk • contribs) 01:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The 2005 season has not been superseeded by the 2020 season because there was a unnamed system in 2005, which is considered to be a named storm by NHC as it reached tropical/subtropical storm strength.Jason Rees (talk) 01:26, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Various grammatical conflicts with 2020's status as the new record holder
I've just corrected the grammar in the opening lines of the article to better reflect this season's changed status as of this week; however it still feels "clunky" for want of a better word (I'm personally not a fan of having too many commas in one opening sentence, although others may not agree) - however, it's difficult to figure out how to re-word it without losing the gravity of the overall lead section. While 2020 is now the most active season on record, 2005's early activity and significantly higher number of urban landfalls by its major hurricanes while they still maintained major status does make it a stand-out season in its own right.

In my view rewriting the lead section to reflect 2020's new records shouldn't detract from the tone of the current article, which makes it clear that 2005 was particularly devastating in terms of its human impact simply because - thankfully unlike 2020 - more storms made landfall while they were still major hurricanes, while so far in 2020, several of our hurricanes have attained peak intensity further from land and levelled off before threatening peoples' lives. The number of fatalities for instance is thankfully lower so far in 2020 by a factor of ten. For that reason, I certainly wouldn't advocate removing the gravitas of this article by simply stating that it is "the second most active season in history" and not maintaining the current tone which articulates how devastating the 2005 was in its own right.

Any ideas about how we might do this? Does it even need to be done, or am I allowing my personal linguistic preferences to make the run-on sentences seem clunkier than they are to other readers?

78.16.162.16 (talk) 13:53, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

2005 Atlantic hurricane season first sentence
On the first sentence, I modified and changed the text link for the 2020 Atlantic hurricane season. I added "was at the time" between "The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season" and "the most active Atlantic hurricane season". I also replaced "for fifteen years" with "until its record was surpassed".  Seventyfiveyears (talk) 23:46, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Why refer to it in the past tense instead of just referring to the article in the preset? I.e.:
 * "The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season is the second most active Atlantic hurricane season in recorded history, surpassed only by the 2020 Atlantic hurricane season. At the time, the season shattered numerous records ..."


 * Bulhis899 (talk) 02:35, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This does mean that 2005 is the second most active hurricane season. However, the revision two pages before mine shows the similar version, see ( for mobile devices).  Seventyfiveyears (talk) 02:58, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Storm names
Alpha (Alfa) and Delta were used in 1972 for two subtropical storms, and Alfa was used the following year again. Would it be okay to add a section that Alpha and Delta were used in previous naming lists? CycloneEditor (talk) 05:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Tropical Storm Zeta (2005) into 2005 Atlantic hurricane season
Fails on the grounds of notability due to lack of impact. I agree with what said back in 2020 regarding the cross-year thing being non-notable as well since it happens all the time elsewhere. Noah, AATalk 14:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose per WP:NEVENT. As stated before in 2020, the storm is notable for the fact of its meteorological history, in that Atlantic cross-year events or January storms (especially as long lived as Zeta) are exceptionally rare and have only happened once or twice (the last time being in the 1950s!). The argument of “happens all the time elsewhere” does not hold as the Atlantic basin is much different then the WPac. This is like saying we should merge Hurricane Pali (2016) or Hurricane Alex (2016) because it was out to sea where the fact is that that was an unprecedented storm for the Atlantic/EPac in the fact that January hurricanes have happened only once or twice in each basin versus the WPac or SHem where things are far different from either basin. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 15:25, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Those two storms you brought up as examples actually had land impact and killed people which makes them notable for a different reason. The notability of this storm is being vastly overstated and the article is bloated to boot (brought up in the prior merge discussion). We have had storms form in June and July in SWIO (probably other basins too) and they aren't getting articles just for that. Crossing an arbitrary time point defined by man doesn't make something notable. Noah, AATalk 15:35, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * These storms are storms so leave them alone 23.126.178.159 (talk) 01:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose - so the 2005 AHS article currently has over 11,000 words of prose. That's very much on the long side, and reflective of it being such a hyperactive season. I think that merging Zeta (that is, actually merging any relevant content that's not in the season article) wouldn't be appropriate, since there is enough unique content. The quotes from the NHC show that the storm was unusual. Even the operational downgrade to tropical depression is worth mentioning, and I don't think it qualifies as trivia. I am usually in favor of merging articles if it makes the season article better, but I don't think that's the case in this instance. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose This article was nominated for merge in 2020, and that failed after thorough discussion. Also, while I get the New Year argument as being created artificially, it is still very rare for a cyclone to exist in this type of year. Also, it would be way too much content to merge especially considering the fact that 2005 was one of the most active hurricane seasons on record, and one of the most destructive. 108.58.37.250 (talk) 22:46, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

20 year anniversary approaching in one year - anyone up for collaboration?
This season is going to be 20 years old next year. I think it would be impressive if we could get the season to featured topic status, which would require six more FA's. Anticipating that some things might change, there should probably be a few more to guarantee it would stay a featured topic, since the Subtropical storm and Irene barely have enough content to even sustain an article, in my opinion. Therefore, I suggest getting Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan, Wilma, and Beta to featured status.

There is a proposal for how to get Dennis back to featured article status by merging the various sub-articles. See here.

Also, Beta's article was good enough that nominated it for FAC back in 2009, so I imagine that article is probably reasonably close to featured status. In addition, and I (along with other editors) have worked on Wilma's article over the years, and that one seems reasonably close to being featured.

Therefore, the biggest priorities seem to be (in order):
 * 1) Katrina
 * 2) Stan
 * 3) Rita
 * 4) Emily
 * 5) Wilma
 * 6) Dennis
 * 7) Cindy
 * 8) Beta

Is anyone interested in working on a potential featured topic for 2005 AHS for its 20 year anniversary? ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 23:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * A little update (in case anyone is reading this). I merged the tornado outbreak for Cindy, which is a step toward getting that article to featured article status. I figured it was a good idea getting another FA as a buffer. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 19:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Proposed Maria merger
Please see Maria's talk page. The rationale is that Maria's met history can be covered between the section in the season article, as well as background to the Hatlestad Slide, which I also proposed moving to 2005 Norway floods. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 19:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)