Talk:2006 Greek local elections

Another platform in the Athens elections
Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_local_elections%2C_2006#Municipality_of_Athens

Could somebody please add the following platform participating in the Athens local elections?

Name of platform: Oikologiki Athina (Eco-Athens)

Name of candidate mayor: Tasos Krommydas

Website: www.ecoathens.gr

Logo picture: http://www.ecoathens.gr/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/Ecoathens_png.thumbnail.png

Thanks

Kaklamanis and LAOS
Kaklamanis is not a LAOS candidate. His political platform has not signed any official agreement with the LAOS people. THe fact that the LAOS website claims he is a candidate of theirs is besideS the point, and cannot be taken as representing any official cooperation between New Democracy (Greece) and LAOS.

This situation is not the same as the Communist Party of Greece/Democratic Social Movement. The two parties have agreed to run joint candidates and the pavillions the party has set up for its candidates clearly state this. For example, down at Akademias, the KKE election office mentions both parties. In contrast, the nearby LOAS election booth makes no such mention of Kaklamanis, nor does it call on people to vote for him. In the same way, Kaklamanis election propaganda makes no mention of LAOS.

True, there are (former) LAOS people running on Kaklamanis ticket but so too are former PASOK and KKE members. Should their logos be included as well?--Damac 09:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanasis Milonopoulos is not a FORMER LAOS member but member of the Central Commitee of the Party.


 * Vasiliki Tampieri is also a member of the LAOS' Executive Board.


 * I think that LAOS logo should be included. --Magioladitis 11:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I still disagree. This platform is not a joint ticket in the same way as the KKE/DIKKI alliance. There is no formal agreement between ND and LAOS. Kaklamanis has co-opted numerous people on to his ticket but it essentially remains a ND one. He also has a sitting PASOK city councillor on his ticket (who is black BTW) as well as people associated with the KKE (I'm not sure whether they are still members of the party).
 * I don't do an edit war. I corrected once because I thought I was just a mistake not a disagrument. We can decide altogether that's the best. I won't edit it until we decide.
 * Yvet (the black PASOK member) is not a PASOK's member anymore. No current members of the CP party participate. Triffili was only a followers but not a member.
 * Formal agreements in local elections is not something common. The common procedure is that a candidate announches its participation in the elections and parties declare or not their support. --Magioladitis 16:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I suggest we seek the opinions of other contributors to Greek politics pages before engaging in a silly edit war over this.--Damac 12:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Does Karatzaferis has declared that he officially supports Kaklamanis? This is what matters.--Yannismarou 14:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, Karatzaferis supports officially. Check here: http://www.laos.gr/ypopsifioi_dhmon.html -- Magioladitis 16:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Then, since Karatzaferis officially supports Kaklamanis, my opinion is that the template of LAOS must be added, although there is no official ND/LAOS alliance. It is the same with PASOK/SYN. There is no official alliance, but they still support some common candidates in local level. This is my opinion.--Yannismarou 17:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Damac what is your opinion after that? I am new around. How do you decide what finally happens? --Magioladitis 22:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll put back the template. If Damac wants, he can add an inline citation that there is no official alliance between LAOS and ND.--Yannismarou 10:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I still disagree. There are 68 candidates on Kaklamanis and two have been identified with LAOS connections. I think it's worth mentioning the comments of Yvette Jarvis, the first visible minority and naturalised citizen to ever hold a public office in Greece and elected PASOK city councillor, one of the 68 on Kaklamanis ticket:
 * "I am on a ticket that is very diverse, that has people from all the political parties," she told the Athens News on September 13 - one day after announcing her candidacy beside Kaklamanis. "There are people who were traditionally KKE [Greek Communist Party], Synaspismos [Coalition of the Left] and even LA.O.S. [Popular Orthodox Rally]. This is a reflection of the city of Athens."
 * Just in case anyone thinks I'm a ND/Kaklamanis supporter, I'm anything but. I just disagree outright when the Kaklamanis alliance is labelled as an official effort of ND and LAOS when it clearly is not.--Damac 10:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not an easy question. Municipal elections in Greece have always been much more relaxed in terms of partisanship. It is true that there exists no official alliance/agreement between ND and LAOS. But there are also many examples of candidates running in a common PASOK/SYN platform although SYN has vehemently denounced any idea of an alliance with PASOK.
 * It is sort of a reverse situation here: in the PASOK/SYN tickets it is the small party (SYN) that doesn't want its name next to the big one whereas in this ND/LAOS ticket it is the large party (ND) that doesn't want LAOS mentioned next to its name.
 * My first reaction in fact was "No! Kaklamanis' ticket has nothing to do with LAOS!". However looking at Greek local elections, 2002 we can see that joint tickets are indeed mentioned, even though there was not an official bipartite agreement. So I'm inclined to think that to include PASOK/SYN informal alliances but not ND/LAOS ones would be a double standard.
 * I may need to clarify what I mean as an "informal alliance". I certainly do not mean any kind of dark, behind-the-scenes, under-the-table conspiracy. By "informal alliance" I mean endorsment of the same candidate, independently by the "informally allied" parties.
 * So, since LAOS has officially declared that it supports Kaklamanis' ticket, I think its logo should be added, albeit with a citation of its official declaration. I know it may be unpopular and I'm sure that on election night when the results roll in, it will be mentioned as a ND-only ticket, but I also think that it would be a double standard to do otherwise.
 * There exists a different approach to the issue, that is to label the ticket by what the press call it. But that could get complicated if there are conflicting views at the press itself.
 * A third way would be to replace the existing column header ("Party") with a more descriptive one (eg "Supported by" or something similar).
 * Anyway, I stick to my previous opinion (that is to include LAOS) for now, but only as a "weak support", I'm not completely convinced myself and it's a complicated issue. --Michalis Famelis (talk)  12:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree to replace "Party" with the more appropriate term "Supported by" and then add LAOS logo next to Kaklamanis. What do we mean by the term "Party" finnaly? That the candidate belongs to that party or something else? When we write that a candidate's "party" is PASOK/SYN we certainly mean that he is supported by these two parties and nothing more. --Magioladitis 12:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem. Replace "Party" with "Supported by". In any case, the majority here says that LAOS' template should be added. Me, Michalis (even with a weak support) and Magioladitis support this position. I respect Damac's position, but fot the Local Elections a central alliance is not necessary in order to indicate support. I reedit the template and this is definite. If Damac wants to replace "Party" with "Supported with" or if he wants to add a note clarifying the status of alliances in the local elections, I have no problem. The template is back.--Yannismarou 13:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way what Yvette says is irrelevant. It is another thing the ideological orientation of the people surrounding a candidate (Kaklamanis in this case) and another thing the official support of the parties. Candidates in Greek local elections always try to present themselves as independent, but the official support of the parties ("χρίσμα") still matters.--Yannismarou 13:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I moved the label "Party" to "Supporting parties". I think this reflects the fact that candidate endorsment is not strictly partisan. Imho, this reflects better the reality of greek local elections. --Michalis Famelis (talk)  13:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I also added a note clarifying that "supporting parties" does not necessarily mean a central alliance between parties. Michalis, Damac or any other user could further clarify and ameliorate the content of this note.--Yannismarou 13:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with the changes.--Damac 14:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Kaklamanis is officially supported by LAOS, and he needs the support from the populist far right party to get elected. If he felt his political agenda were incompatible with Karatzaferis, he should have RELINQUISHED support from LAOS. But he didn't! The probable next mayor of Athens will have been elected with the assistance of the far right populists of LAOS! What an interesting development for a city whose flag already looks like the logo of a Neonazi party! 192.104.147.44 08:24, 4 October 2006 (UTC)Stergios Kaprinis


 * We donot discuss politics here my friend. This is an encyclopedic article. I thought you chose the wrong site to express your ideas. Try somewhere else.--Yannismarou 09:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Other peripheries
It's great to that this page is attracting attention and contributions from so many people.

I think I should point out that not all prefectures are included and they should be. I created the page but didn't have all the information to hand for the more "peripheral" prefectures.

If I get the chance, I'll add the rest.--Damac 14:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * You're doing a great job!--Yannismarou 16:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think is not neccesary. Maybe you can add some important (as Patras) more but not all, specialy for Municipalities! -- Magioladitis 20:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I meant to say prefectures, not peripheries. There is absolutely no reason why they should not be included. This is an encylopaedia, after all. No one suggested including the municipalities.--Damac 20:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Names' cleanup
I think is not neccessary all the candidates' names to have a link. This will cause many red links. Maybe some links can be removed. -- Magioladitis 20:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * This is not Wikipedia policy. There is nothing wrong with red links; their existence should provoke people into starting stubs on the people concerned. Please do not remove them.--Damac 20:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Damac. Red links are not evil. Let them be. --Michalis Famelis (talk)  20:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I copy from the WikiProject Red Link Recovery:

" It will look at all methods of transforming red links into blue ones, including but not limited to:
 * Identifying and removing red links to topics that no article will ever exist for"
 * I think for many candidates, specially from the smaller parties, an article will never exist. --Magioladitis 22:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It does not matter. Per Damac this time. There is no problem for red links. They are not sometthing wrong. Maybe somebody gets interested in creating some new articles.--Yannismarou 06:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair use images on templates
Today I had this message from Durin: "Please do not add fair use tagged images (such as those tagged with logo) to templates ... This is proscribed by Wikipedia:Fair use criteria item #9." and I answered him that " think for better appereance and comprehencion of the results is better to have the logo of each party (especially if they are many ecological parties with similar names)".

Probably we will forced to remove the Parties' logos although I disagree. Please write me your opinion of what you should do. -- Magioladitis 23:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * See reply on WikiProject History of Greece/Politics and politicians task force.--Damac 08:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)