Talk:2007 Ontario general election

Opinion polls
Should there be consistent standards for the opinion polls? Two SES polls currently show undecided voters, although the links also show stats with just committed voters. All other polls simply show committed voters. I think the SES polls and all future polls should just show committed votes as a consistent criterion. Readers can still check links and footnotes for varying details in each poll. The same logic applies to election results: spoiled ballots and non-voters usually aren't counted in percentage totals. G(A)IA, 2007.09.01 @ 01.53 UTC.


 * I agree, and have changed the numbers. Undecideds are overwhelmingly people who simply won't end up voting and keeping track of them doesn't say much about how the province will vote. - SimonP 14:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I definitely agree. The undecided voters are often put into the polls. As with the SES one that says the Liberals at 30% and PC's at 30%, if you read that same PDF, it has them both at 35%, and the NDP at 19%...but on the wiki page it says NDP 16 because of the whole undecided thing. Get rid of it I agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.46.136 (talk) 07:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree because the undecided voters do turn into voters, and they affect the accuracy of the poll. The aggregate poll, at least in SES's case, is point five percent more accurate.  Furthermore, over time, the undecided goes down, as people make up there mind.--Abebenjoe 23:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I see no evidence that when "undecided voters do turn into voters...they affect the accuracy of the poll." In fact, the most accurate poll to predict the last federal election was an SES poll that excluded undecided voters.  Evidence such as this suggests that undecided voters who do end up voting seem to cast their votes in proportion with decided voters.  Beyond this reason is the matter of having consistent criteria between polls in order to make intelligible comparisons between them.  There might be merit in creating a separate chart with polls that show undecided voters in order to address this phenomenon (a point that could be debated further).  In the meantime, the polls in the current chart should only show committed voters for comparison purposes and consistency.  G(A)IA, 2007.09.13 @ 02.34 UTC.


 * Again, I disagree with your point that undecided voters are insignificant. However, I've changed the entire poll section to reflect committed voters, with aggregate (all voters surveyed) results in the footnotes.--Abebenjoe 17:41, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I never said "undecided voters are insignificant," just that that whatever is significant about that group is inconsistent with the current chart. I agree that, when the information is available, polls that show undecided voters should have these statistics shown somewhere (just not in a chart of polls based on criteria that excludes undecided voters).  I think showing them in footnotes is a good idea.  I also wouldn't want to discourage anyone from creating a separate chart or even another section in the article that deals with undecided/uncommitted voters and the issues that pertain to this group.  G(A)IA, 2007.09.13 @ 20.45 UTC.


 * I think too it should be separately noted somewhere. It looks like that was written in the edit summary box but it's not reflected in the content page at all... it's still as it was with the undecided factored in which makes things very confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kflack (talk • contribs) 04:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

In an unrelated story, I think they might have one or two new ones out now, it's oct 3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dofer49- (talk • contribs) 01:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

What was bad faith about my edit?
Can somebody explain to me why my contribution was reverted as being of "bad faith" by Nat?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ontario_general_election%2C_2007&diff=155127801&oldid=155116595

Maybe I'm just new to this whole wikipedia thing, but I read over the page on "good faith" edits and Nat's decision puzzled me (especially considering that the 'good faith' page even had specific sections on dealing with new wikipedians, which I am).

Is adding a site with polling trends and a meta-analysis of seat projections for the Ontario election bad faith? Can somebody please explain to me what exactly is 'bad faith' about what I did?

The contribution was not causing "deliberate disruption just to prove a point." The contribution was not "playing games with policies." And the contribution -- adding the only site with a meta-analysis of the Ontario general election that I'm aware of -- is most certainly not intended as vandalism.

Nat seems to think that including the information in the analysis does more harm than good to the article than having it does.

Can I get some feedback from people as to what they think and/or how to go about reverting this change?

Ottawastudent 04:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There was nothing that indicated your edits were done in bad faith. The only problem with your edit was the addition of a website that basically gave the same information as one or two of those site already listed. That is why I had your edits reverted. It is my personal opinion that we already have too many external links on this page. Please see WP:NOT. Regards, nattan g 04:31, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Really? Please point me to which of the other external links that have a meta-analysis of seat projections or please point me to the other external links which have 6 month polling trend graphs with rolling averages.Ottawastudent 04:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's just a blog (assumably yours) with a few numbers in it. Whoop-dee-doo. If your blog was as comprehensive as say, Democraticspace, it would be valuable. However, yours is more blog (and very opinionated at that). I'm dont think calling the NDP "cowards" is NPOV at all.-- Earl Andrew - talk 05:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay so first the agurment was that the edit was in bad faith -- something I'm still waiting to hear an apology on. Then it was that Nat, the Tory, felt that 8 is too many external links which is ridiculous since other comparable articles, such as the one on the 40th Canadian federal election has 21 external links and that election date isn't even set yet.  Now I'm being told that the external link was not NPOV.  What wasn't neutral about what I linked to?  What was baissed about it?  It includes every poll (including one that nodice forgot), it treats all parties equally.  It is not written from a partisan perspective.  Did I link to a post that called the NDP "cowards"?  If Earl Andrew is opposed to linking to this resource just because somewhere else on that site (somewhere not linked to), in the completely different political opinions section of that site, there is criticism going on which is critical of the NDP, then, I have to ask, who's really being of bad faith here?  I don't see what's different between Paulitics and Greg Morrow's Democraticspace.com.  Greg's Democraticspace has a section which is unbaissed -- it's the section which was linked to on this article.  But Greg also has very progressive opinions on a variety of issues and he discusses them regularly.  So Earl, what's REALLY your gripe with the external link?  The link's purpose is not to rival Democraticspace, that would be silly.  The link was inserted because it was the only meta-analysis on the internet of the seat projections for this election and that, I believe, is significant and worth including.  So, and let's be fair here Earl, either including the only meta-analysis of the entire election helps the article, or it's harmful to provide that information.  It was not in bad faith.  It was not compromising the article by making too many links, and the page linked to was just as NPOV as the portion of Greg's Democraticspace which was linked to. Ottawastudent 15:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Distinguish stats from analysis; foreground POV of analysis to retain NPOV. Stats should not be removed because they’re not “as comprehensive as say, Democraticspace.”  This is strange reasoning for two reasons:  Firstly, the stats provided by the source in question are objective, even if the analysis of them isn’t (that’s the nature of analysis — some people just foreground their ideology while others don’t).  Secondly, democraticSPACE, while very comprehensive, is far from objective or even democratic for that matter.  Case in point:  There have been four recent threads on democraticSPACE about funding religious schools in Ontario with over 70 comments between them.  The position of democraticSPACE has been to support the Liberal status quo on the issue while dismissing the U.N. Commissions that have found Ontario’s education system in violation of human rights.  democraticSPACE is favouring statistics from The Fraser Institute (one of the most neo-conservative think-tanks out there) instead of the U.N. findings.  No one should have a problem with democraticSPACE taking this position and using stats from The Fraser Institute, but since the majority of responses have been critical the website has been censoring and pulling down some of the most critical comments that cite different positions and different stats.  As of the time of this posting, two of these threads have been shut off to further comments.  I write this as a cautionary note to those who dismiss stats from alternative sources in the name of “objectivity” or “democracy.” Censorship in the name of whatever bogus reason — whether on Wikipedia, democraticSPACE, or elsewhere — should not be tolerated.  The stats in question here should not be removed for the reasons given thus far.  Providing analysis, too, is also fine so long as it is made clear that it is coming from a particular perspective.  NPOV is *not* about negating POV (an impossible task), it is about fairly weighing significant POVs.  G(A)IA 20:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Since it looks as though nobody has any further objections or constructive criticism to having this information included, I'm going to re-introduce the external link into the article.Ottawastudent 01:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I object. I don't really care what the other articles have or don't have. The point is, there are way to many "forcaster"/blog sites already listed. And also, the site that you added is basically a regurgitation of the information already posted on the other websites. The way we do things here is by consensus, and there is clearly no consensus to add the external link. Therefore, I am removing the external link as there is no consensus to add Ottawastudent's external link and per policy. nattan g 00:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, Nat, the way we do things is that you have to give a logical reason for why something should or shouldn't be included, you can't just state it without backing that up merely because you happen to have decided on your own that you don't like the site. Now, you first claimed that the edit was in bad faith.  When challenged with this contention, you then changed your tune and said that there are too many links -- which I demonstrated to be demonstrably false since the Canadian 40th General Election page has 300% more external links than this page does and that election isn't even under way yet.  Moreover, your claim that the article has too many links is also laughable because there was a new 'forecaster/blog' site linked to earlier today and you hypocritically had no objections at all to that one.  You just decided that you didn't like the site that I included.  So, how can we take your actions seriously when it's clear that you don't actually believe what you yourself argued previously.  So if you're going to hold the opinion that this article has too many links, then you're going to have to explain why this article should be different from all others, since objectively, this article DOESN'T have too many links.  You can't merely assert it as if you're the god of what gets on Wikipedia.  You then write that there is no useful information on the linked site.  I have already asked you to back up this contention, and you ignored me and merely reverted my edit without responding in good faith to my request.  When you actually answer my questions in good faith and explain why including this site harms the article, then I would say it's reasonable to remove it.  Until that time, you're merely engaging in an immature pissing contest which I have no interest in participating in.Ottawastudent 01:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Please see External links, which states that one should never add a link to one's own page, and also that links to blogs are to generally be avoided. - SimonP 15:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * SimonP - Well, clearly we don't have a serious problem with linking to blogs since the article links to Greg Morrow's blog. However, that said, I was not aware that it was considered bad form to link to one's own site.  So, given that realization -- and as it is a valid argument against me re-introducing the link (as opposed to Nat's arguments above) -- I will not attempt to re-introduce the external link due to possible conflicts of interest on my part.  As an aside, however, I do believe that the only meta-analysis and the only universal swing projection are useful tools, so I do believe some other wikipedia user ought to consider its inclusion on its merits, but I will not personally attempt to re-introduce it.Ottawastudent 19:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I am adding an external link to Paulitics Projection Page. I agree that their blog is not referencable material, but Paul's calculations using the UBC Antweiler Election Forecaster is the only current application. Similarly, the Swing Model is based on sound methodology. Neither of these projections is available on a consistent basis on the web, yet they are most valuable and insightful to those seeking such studies. Paul's two models were added last week to our 6-model avg at TrendLines based on their merits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredhutter (talk • contribs) 01:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

the editor of the "paulitics" blog seems to think that a certain editor (nat) is only saying his site should not be included, because he is a tory. first of all, that makes me sick, and that comment made me lose all respect for the editor, as I myself am a tory. secondly, despite what I think about the editor, the blog does offer information that is not avilable on other sites, that being an analysis of predictions. This is something that is valuable as it's important to keep in mind the differing methodoligies. What's needed is not to target a single link, but to come up with a rule for all future elections about these kind of prediction/projection sites. so in summary. site = good, editor = bad, having no set rules to deal with these situations = worse 74.14.16.208 05:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Assessment
I have assessed this as a B Class, given its detail and organization, although it really needs some more cleanup and prose. I have assessed this as low importance, as it is a highly specialized topic within Canada. Cheers, CP 02:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Freedom and COR parties
Whos adding the candidate numbers for those parties? they haven't nominated anyone yet according to there websites and if they have tell me where to get the info because nobody is putting the parties candidates in the list by region. 70.54.2.165 21:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe the Freedom Party is currently running 2 candidates. I doubt that the CoR will run any candiadates, seeing as their candidate numbers have been dwindling since 1990. Morgan695 02:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

both FP candidates announced on the forum Free Dominion Nickjbor 05:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes we'll see if the Cor party has become defunct and if the Freedom party runs less candidates then the libertarians!

74.14.147.223 23:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

LEEDS-GRENVILLE GREENS
I know who the damn Green candidate for leeds-grenville is, the GPO just hasn't updated the page yet. Jeanie Warnock will even be at my house tomorrow where we'll start collecting signatures for the returning officer.

74.14.146.93 00:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Then put that in your edit summary, don't just randomly add uncited information (as you've done often in the past). Morgan695 00:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I've been involved with the GPO/GPC since I was 12 years old, I'm sure thats more then you can say. Heres the news article from the Recorder and Times. That would be the Brockville newspaper. Where I live in the riding: http://newsfeed.recorder.ca/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=23697 Lets now assume that when I add a Green candidate to the list, i know what the hell i'm talking about alrighty.

Political junky 01:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:CIVIL - one should always take a polite tone in Wikipedia discussions. Knowing "what the hell you're talking about" is not enough to post information on Wikipedia (especially if such information has only been posted in a local newspaper, and not the GPO official website), you must cite a link in an edit summary. Thank you. Morgan695 01:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "don't just randomly add uncited information (as you've done often in the past)." was very uncivil, not everything needs citation, especially not clear facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.178.56.254 (talk) 21:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Read the article, You need to read it to understand that yes, she is the candidate in the riding. shes also in the PROCESS of creating her own campaign site, I personally have a couple of signs up on my lot, and i'm sure if you contacted the GPO they can confirm Jeanie is actually the candidate as I was just on the phone with her a few minutes ago. You really shouldn't concern yourself with something I know all about and you've shown to me you know very little about.

Political junky 01:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support or experience with a party does not give you superiority over all articles and topics related to it. WP:CITE states that one must cite "material challenged or likely to be challenged", such a candidate who has only been referenced in a local newspaper with a limited audience. Morgan695 02:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

That may be true, however not only am i involved with the party, not only involved with the CA, not only involved with the campaign to elect Jeanie Warnock, but also live in the riding with a sign supporting the candidate. So no, I don't expect superiority over every issue, but when it comes to my party, my riding, my candidate, and i'm being challenged by some one who knows absolutly nothing about her, the riding, or the campaign in leeds-grenville I question whos writting many of the articles on Wikipedia. Political junky 02:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I have not once 'challenged' the validity of your edit. I removed the candidate's name because there was no citation on the GPO offical website, which tends to have preference over local newspapers. Furthermore, the fact that I do not live in your riding does not make your edits superior to mine. You are free to edit the article on my riding as you see fit - Wikipedia is 'the free encyclopedia', after all. Morgan695 02:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, if a candidate has not yet collected the 25 signature needed to officially run as a candidate in Ontario, then he/she is still not officially on the ballot and therefore cannot be placed on this list. Until Elections Ontario has officially recognize the candidate or his/her name is on his/her party's website, he/she should remain off this list until that happens. nattan g 07:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * WP is an enclycopedia and not a blog roll. Entries should have sources and are very strict when it come to  Biographies of living persons.  The candidate may have even told you they are going to be a candidate, but until it official and verified, then you can't put it on the page for Ontario general election, 2007.  You may want to place the information on the candidate's page, but only if it is a major incident.  Just summarizing the candidate's plan for a year before the election would be Undue Weight -- Statsone  16:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Untrue, We placed candidates on this page even before an election was called. Jeanie is verified as the candidate with the Green Party of Ontario and will be submitting her information to elections ontario later today. Again, we've been adding candidates even before the election was called so you and I both know that its a load of dung saying they have to be registered in order to be on wikipedia. http://www.vote-green.ca/jeanie.warnock

I'd also like to note, you all thought Mark Raby was the Green candidate until a few days ago. I know Mark personally and he only expressed light interest in running, never once committing to run. Please contact the GPO if you don't trust me with the issue.

Political junky 17:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Now you have a source. I still think it would be better to wait until she has actually files her application as it would be official at that time. -- Statsone  17:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Discussions on this page
Would everyone please read the top of this page. Where it links to: | What Wikipedia is not - a FORUM

Quoting from the page:


 *  Discussion forums. Please try to stay on the task of creating an encyclopedia. You can chat with folks about Wikipedia-related topics on their user talk pages, and should resolve problems with articles on the relevant talk pages, but please do not take discussion into articles. Also, bear in mind that talk pages exist for the purpose of discussing how to improve articles; they are not mere general discussion pages about the subject of the article, nor are they a helpdesk for obtaining instructions or technical assistance. There are a number of early-stage projects that attempt to use a wiki for discussion and debate. Wikipedians who wish to hold casual discussions with fellow Wikipedians can use the IRC channels, such as #wikipedia. Note that this is an IRC channel, not a message board. 

This means, this page is for discussion on how to improve the article. Debate as to who wins the elections should be taken elsewhere. Please keep in mind NPOV and SOAP -- Statsone  04:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * where are these non-page-related comments? I dont see any. were they deleted from the history? I do come here to improve the article, but in order to do that it requires discussion, like for example, why this was posted. Nickjbor 07:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Why is there NO mention that catholic schools have funding because of the Canadian constitution? The section is bias and should reflect the history. spstarr 12:23, 12 October 2007 (EDT) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.44.230 (talk)


 * Uh?


 * Without taking sides or making one side or user more important than other, how about ( Some have been archived):


 * It's looking to me like the next election will give
 * Ontario legislature was in a minority position...kinda like the recent Québec elections
 * Do you support the green party


 * Talk on who is winning or losing or the actual campaign do not belong on this page. It may even be best to track some incidents and place a summary on the candidate's page, or riding's page, or party's page at the end of the campaign.  -- Statsone  16:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Good resoruce for info on candidates
http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/CandidatesAndParties/Candidates/CandidateContactInfo.htm Nickjbor 07:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Edits and format
When placing an entry please sign them by placing 4 ~ at the end of your entry. Your user name and a time and time stamp will be added automaticcaly.

Also, when responding to another entry, use as many : (colon's) as needed to indent. This make it easier to read comments. -- Statsone  16:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Withdrawals?
How should withdrawals be indicated? -- Zanimum 16:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If the candidate is no longer a candidate, his/her name should be removed from our list. nattan g 17:04, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, because I know with municipal elections, some withdraw too late to be removed from the ballot. --  Zanimum 17:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If they are on Election Ontario's list, then they haven't withdrawn officially. Electors can still vote for them, so leave them on the list, but I would suggest asterisking the candidate stating not campaigning.  If they actually withdrew, before September 18th at 2;00 p.m., then Nat's suggestin makes the most sense.--Abebenjoe 17:43, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Independents
I'm adding all the ind's listed here http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/CandidatesAndParties/Candidates/CandidateContactInfo.htm 74.13.125.185 07:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC) that was me BTW. Nickjbor 07:40, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Need some help with the colours for the smaller parties running candidates
self explained Political junky 19:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I added the colours for the CoR and Reform, and judging by the Republican Party's website, I'd guess lavender grey (#BDBBD7). Special Needs has no website, so it'll be hard to find it's colour. Morgan695 20:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I made one for the Republicans. Morgan695 20:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Another question about one of the new parties, On the Party chart special needs is listed as having two candidates however in the list of candidates there is only one, anybody know of the second candidate if any? I'd choose a darker grey for the party now to avoid having the same colour as the independents.

74.14.147.119 00:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

There are no "smaller parties", only people like you trying to limit choice and frame the debate. 70.178.56.254 21:21, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Split article, move candidates to own page
Now that we have a completed list from Elections Ontario, we should split the article and make the Candidates List its own article. My suggestion is to link to the page from this article. The Ontario general election, 2007 is now 85KB, so it is rather big by Wiki standards. Comments? --Abebenjoe 08:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think like the 2003, General election everything should stay on one page.

74.14.147.119 11:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The article is now 94kb. I've decided to be bold and remove the 'Candidates' section from the main page. Morgan695 02:46, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

if this is allowed to stay this way, without candidates, then the candidates list from the 2003 ontario election will have to be moved, to stay consistant. as will the list from the 2007 quebec election, as quebec has more ridings then Ontario does. Nickjbor 10:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Then change the Quebec page. At over 35K, the Candidates page on its own is large, so keeping it in this article, unnecessarily makes this article too large.  The size of the this article, even without the candidates section, suggests even more segmentation into seperate articles is likely.--Abebenjoe 03:19, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The current way is the standard for all new election articles in Canada. --Cloveious 00:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

whos the second special needs party candidate
As far as I know theres only Danish (there leader) running, so why does it say 2? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.147.119 (talk) 02:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * John Rubino in Trinity-Spadina is the second. Morgan695 18:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NONDP.PNG
Image:NONDP.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikinews interview ?
I noticed the addition of this text to at least 2 candidates' table entry (Suzanne Fortin, Martin Hyde). Since wikinews looks very official and just about blends in with wikipedia, I wonder if those are fake entries and if so, should be removed asap? (I am new to Wikipedia and don't know if there is some arrangement with wikinews) Ottawahitech 08:50, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I just discovered that Wikipedia has an entry about Wikinews, and and in particular Wikinews. After reading it I still wonder if the candidates who are using this method of providing information about themselves are simply avoiding the kind of scrutiny that other candidates must endure in order to have information added about them to Wikipedia, or is Wikinews part of wikipedia and subject to the same stringent publishing criteria?
 * Ottawahitech 09:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

An encylopedia should not be endorsing any one news source, regardless of who the founder of both is. Nickjbor 10:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is nothing wrong with quoting Wikinews, anymore than quoting the Toronto Star or The Globe and Mail. It's filling a gap that the mainstream media is not covering.--Abebenjoe 03:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * n:User:Zanimum is conducting the interviews. Any concerns should be directed to him and to Wikinews. I write for Wikinews. It's an official news source and a sister-project of Wikipedia. These entries are not fake, if they were they would be deleted by me or one of the other admins. FellowWikip e dian 17:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Leaders and "other parties"
Someone has reverted this edit to a previous version:

(cur) (last) 21:18, 4 October 2007 70.178.56.254 (Talk) (62,178 bytes) (undo)

Elections are about the future, and choice. This article should not be used as a propaganda tool to frame the debate. A list of the leaders in parties that offer a candidate in every riding is just as relevant to the 2007 Election as leaders from past elections.

This topic is not about the current government, but about October 10th's Election.

I will be restoring my edit.

Further, the candidates were presented in alphabetical order, again, to present the topic in a more neutral manner.


 * Changed "Other parties" to "All registered parties of Ontario" the former label was dismissive. Wikipedia should be neutral on the presentation of these facts. Wageslave 21:49, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Will be re-ordering All registered parties of Ontario to be alphabetical shortly. Wageslave 21:49, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Parties were placed in the following order, ommitting boilerplate words like "party" "ontario" and using the intended purpose of the Party's title (for example, "Special" instead of "People")

communist confederation family freedom green liberal libertarian progressive republican reform special —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wageslave (talk • contribs) 21:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, Im going to remove that list which is now redundant due to the infobox. nattan g 22:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I concur. 70.178.56.254 15:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Prediction?
Based on the information so far, which party could be predicted to form the next government, based on the number of seat it will attain and the number of seats the other provincial parties will also attain? Please answer ASAP the elections are tomorrow in my area and I want to know if I'm voting for the majority

-- • Storkian • 23:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) This talkpage is for discussion of the article, not the election itself, and 2) you should vote for the party who you feel best represents you, not based on who you believe will form the government. Morgan695 02:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Ontario elections collaboration on Wikinews
There is urgent need to collaborate on the Ontario election coverage article (also see, Results of 2005 British Columbia, Canada General Election) on Wikinews. Any help is appreciated from editors on Wikipedia. FellowWikip e dian 17:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Voter turnout
I can't do this because I am a new user but if somebody could add a section about voter turnout (52.8% http://www3.elections.on.ca/internetapp/realtimehome.aspx?lang=en&channel_id={923146e7-4d81-42a8-99f0-e61f5ab50387}&lang=en) and compare it to previous years- important given the dissatisfaction with the central issues of the campaign —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.249.202 (talk) 23:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added a brief section per your request. It could probably be expanded a bit with properly documented analysis of the reasons for such a low turnout, but of course it's not Wikipedia's business to speculate — if we want to analyze this, we can only do so by directly quoting and citing verifiable media discourse on the topic. Bearcat 00:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Just some statistical information as possible leads.
Just some statistical information as possible leads.

Reference.

CBC ELECTION RESULTS The CBC headline reads, "McGuinty Wins Massive Majority", however of the 8.4 million eligible voters only 52.6 % or 4.4 million voters cast a vote,  of these  42.6% or  790,810 cast a  vote for a Liberal Candidate,  and of these 23,566 cast a vote directly for Premier McGuinty, (50.04% of the votes in his riding) as all other ridings cannot vote for the party leader. This leaves 47.4% of the eligible voters not voting, 57.4% of those that voted or 2,525,600 voters, a majority of voters,  who did not vote for a Liberal Candidate in the province, and even in Mr. McGuinty's riding, 49.96% of  voters in his riding did not vote for him. The move to change the electoral system, to represent minority parties failed to pass by over 63% because the changes would give more power to non-elected party members, however if we look at the details of the current system there are other ways to make changes to a system that empowers a minority, in many cases one individual, who we call  a Premier over the Majority. Seems that more logical electoral reforms include the use of run-off elections (used by parties to elect the party leader), an opportunity for voting seperately for a Premier, and giving our elected representatives 'free votes' on every vote, by eliminating the dictatorial power to the Premier, as is the case in most Municipal councils and the position of the Mayor, who gets one equal vote on all votes. If my numbers are correct of all eligible voters, 8.4 million, only 23,566 voted for the Premier, and that is .2 %; now that is not a system that can state that "a majority" of the vote supporting Mr. McGuinty, and in fact 57.81 % of all voters did not vote liberal in the province; odd what a parliamentary system can do to a free vote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caesarjbsquitti (talk • contribs) 22:08, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

It should be noted that the political system in Ontario has one voting for the local rep only, there is no vote for the party leader, nor the party. (merely indirectly)

The leader with the most elected party representatives, in majority governments forms the government. A detail that is important since the elected representatives have little power in government as the Premier calls the shots.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 14:53, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

McGuinty's victory speach.
It would be a great idea if someone could find the victory speach of Mr. McGuinty for future reference.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 20:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Target Seats
Target seats need to be updated desperatly, they follow 2003 results. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.15.24.182 (talk) 22:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's the idea. Target seats are the ridings that each party came within 15% of winning in the last election. Morgan695 21:02, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Numbers
The numbers don't add up on the results chart, we're about 8,000 votes over the vote count. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Political junky (talk • contribs) 01:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's because the results are unoffical and therefore inaccurate. Actual results will be released within the coming weeks. Morgan695 02:31, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if the results are inaccurate, we're saying on that chart that there were 9,000 more voters then there actually were. That is far more inaccurate then unofficial results. this isn't including the independent candidates, so actually, we're farther off then originally thought.74.15.24.182 17:41, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Another note on numbers: I like the regional breakdown section, but the PC seats add up to 25, and they won 26. What seat wasn't counted? MJR (talk) 23:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ondpsmall.png
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Maps
Can somebody explain to me why we need Image:Ontario elections 2007.png and Image:Ontario2007.PNG? Bearcat (talk) 02:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

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Infobox inclusion
It has been generally accepted to only use the infobox to outline the details of the parties that held seats before or after the election. 117Avenue (talk) 05:10, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, in that case I propose that an exception be made in this particular case, because anyone who watched the campaign would agree that the Greens were a notable presence in it, and every polling company included the party in its polls. It is historically unheard of in Ontario politics for any party that did not win a seat to get 8% of the vote, as almost always such parties get below 1%. The only other case that comes close is Family Coalition from 1987-1995, which reached a high-water mark of 2.7%. Since this is an article about the election campaign, I think it would be proper for the infobox to mention it. Otherwise, the casual reader is left asking where all the votes went, since the changes in popular vote in the infobox don't add up by 5%. Esn (talk) 04:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Generally accepted by whom? you? As Esn said in his response, the Greens presence was felt during the 2007 election and the party was included in all opinion polling. If you look to the 2008 federal election and the 2011 federal election as examples you will see my point. The Greens did not have an elected member prior to either of those elections and in 2008 they did not elect a member. Yet they were very much a factor running full slates and in 2008, getting a seat at the debates. You can also look to the British Columbia provincial election pages too dating back to 2001. Its just a basic point of information for readers looking to become informed to include all parties who mustered more than a small fraction of support. This isn't a partisan debate, this is an online encyclopedia. Political junky (talk) 17:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Why was the Green Party of Canada included in the 2008 debate, and not the 2011? Because they had a sitting MP. Was the Green Party of Ontario included in the 2007 debate? 117Avenue (talk) 20:31, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, but they were a significant presence in it. They were widely covered in election coverage. Ross Perot won 8% of the vote in the 1996 US presidential election, carried no states, yet is still mentioned in the infobox because he was an unusually successful 3rd-party candidate and (like here), without the inclusion of those votes in the infobox, the casual reader is left wondering where the extra percentages went. Esn (talk) 11:29, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Green Party a legitimate fourth party?
I removed the Green Party from the infobox. They did not win any seats in this election. They have never won a seat in any Ontario election and under the current system are unlikely to ever win a seat. While they did garner marginal popular support, I do not believe this warrants inclusion as a '4th party' in the description of this election. EncyclopediaUpdaticus (talk) 05:37, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is old, so please ignore my previous comments. The current consensus is to include parties garnering over 5% of the popular vote. It was looking like the Green party would be included in the 2014 election, with the polls over 5%, but with only 4.8% they were removed. 117Avenue (talk) 05:39, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * For the record, there isn't a standing consensus of Wikiproject Canada that a party should be included in the infobox if it gets at least five per cent of the popular vote but wins no seats; the editors of this article may have established a variant consensus among themselves for this article in isolation, but there's no established consensus that it's the "standard" for Canadian elections across the board. So no, this article doesn't get to make up its own special rule for itself different from the rules that apply to other provincial or federal elections — there's a discussion at WP:CANTALK to review and reaffirm what the consensus should be, but it's unresolved as of today and nobody has shown evidence that the existing consensus permits inclusion in the infobox on a popular vote threshhold even for a party with no actual representation in the applicable legislature. Bearcat (talk) 19:48, 1 March 2017 (UTC)