Talk:2009 Grand Prix motorcycle racing season

MotoGP participants
The word confirmed is being abused. It is not confirmed whether Lorenzo or Dovizioso will be riding Bridgestones in 2009, what sponsor Gibernau might have, etc. Confirmation requires an official announcement from the rider and/or the team, and many of the references are not such announcements. Let's either use the word provisional, or remove all items from the list that are not in fact confirmed.--Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk) 17:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Team Scot
The Jir Team Scot split this summer into Jir and Team Scot. Since they're separate teams, I'd create a different article for Team Scot, instead of linking to Jir and modify that page. What do you guys think? Asendoh (talk) 19:05, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably, although it will only become necessary if JiR run a team in some championship next season.--MartinUK (talk) 19:19, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Three teams, three articles. Leave JiR Team Scot because it has existed and was notable. Then a page for each of the two new teams if both are competing, otherwise just one new one for the new team that's competing. If the other 'half' comes to race (anywhere notable), then it can have it's own article. ATM, I'm not sure both halves are notable. The one racing in MotoGP is, the other, probably not. --Ged UK (talk) 21:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The current article is just for the JiR team and not for JiR Team Scot, we'd need just another one in my opinion. Asendoh (talk) 00:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the JiR article is currently all wrong, as it's about Team Scot. But, JiR (Luca Monitron's company), Team Scot, and JiR Team Scot are three different entities. JiR is an independant company providing racing services, Team Scot are a racing team, and JiR Team Scot WAS a joint venture. Therefore, I think it should be three articles. Thinking again, I think all three are probably notable, JiR Team Scot certainly because they raced in MotoGP, and Team Scot because they're about to, and JiR because they have in the past, though under the Konica brand. Hope that makes sense! --Ged UK (talk) 08:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for the clarification! I'll create the Team Scot article when I have a little time then. Asendoh (talk) 08:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've altered the JiR article and created Team Scot and JiR Team Scot entries. They're a bit stubby and include some repetition and probably need better links and infoboxes, but at least we no longer have a lot of missing or inaccurate information on this one.--MartinUK (talk) 12:36, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Table consistency
✅

Why does the MotoGP table group riders by teams, when the 125 and 250 riders are simply listed? I think we ought to have one table layout for all three. I personally prefer the MotoGP layout, but I'm not hugely fussed either way. Thoughts? --Ged UK (talk) 07:54, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * There should just be one layout for all of them. I'm fairly certain that originally they all had the same layout, but someone must have changed just the MotoGP table to group riders by teams. I'd support a change to the MotoGP style for all classes. Readro (talk) 08:38, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * MotoGP layout is cool indeed but it's very complicated to make, not to mention to mantain especially for classes with a high number of entries like 125cc. Anyway, if most people like it, I can work on it. Asendoh (talk) 09:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, here's an example from the 2008 season:
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%;"

!Team !Constructor !Motorcycle !Tyre !No !Rider !rowspan=3| Aprilia !rowspan=2| Derbi
 * rowspan=3 align="center"| Bancaja Aspar Team
 * rowspan=3 align="center"| Bancaja Aspar Team
 * rowspan=3| Aprilia RSA 125
 * rowspan=3 align="center"|
 * 1
 * 🇭🇺 Gábor Talmácsi
 * 26
 * 🇪🇸 Adrián Martín
 * 30
 * 🇪🇸 Pere Tutusaus
 * rowspan=2 align="center"| Ajo Motorsport
 * 🇪🇸 Pere Tutusaus
 * rowspan=2 align="center"| Ajo Motorsport
 * rowspan=2 align="center"| Ajo Motorsport
 * rowspan=2| Derbi RSA 125
 * rowspan=2 align="center"|
 * 63
 * 🇫🇷 Mike Di Meglio
 * 77
 * 🇨🇭 Dominique Aegerter
 * }
 * The problem is: Tutusaus, for example, raced both for a regular Aspar rider and as a wild card for Alpo Atlético de Madrid. How do we represent this? Asendoh (talk) 09:31, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That looks good to me. With regard to riding wildcard for a different team, I'd have thought that we can list them in the wildcard section, with an asterisk explaining their duality. --Ged UK (talk) 11:21, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you make an example please? I can't understand very well. Otherwise, I thought we could just list a rider two times:
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%;"
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%;"

!Team !Constructor !Motorcycle !Tyre !No !Rider !rowspan=3| Aprilia
 * rowspan=3 align="center"| Bancaja Aspar Team
 * rowspan=3 align="center"| Bancaja Aspar Team
 * rowspan=3| Aprilia RSA 125
 * rowspan=3 align="center"|
 * 1
 * 🇭🇺 Gábor Talmácsi
 * 26
 * 🇪🇸 Adrián Martín
 * 30
 * 🇪🇸 Pere Tutusaus
 * - style="background-color:#ccffcc"
 * align="center"| Alpo Atlético de Madrid
 * align="center"| Aprilia
 * Aprilia RS 125
 * align="center"|
 * 30
 * 🇪🇸 Pere Tutusaus
 * }
 * although it's redundant. Asendoh (talk) 11:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * }
 * although it's redundant. Asendoh (talk) 11:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't make tables, they always go wrong! For the 2008 season, we had a separate table for the wildcards, see here, so if a rider we've already listed for one team then rides for another as a wildcard, then we just list them in the wildcard table, with a * note underneath, or a footnote, explaining they rode for two different teams. --Ged UK (talk) 14:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess that could do... for most cases :) We'll think of a solution for all cases when the season actually begins. For now I'm making tables with the new layout. Asendoh (talk) 15:15, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Would it be possible to left-align the team names, as the centre align makes it look all wobbly, especially with the flags. I tried to do it, but inevitably cocked it up! --Ged UK (talk) 08:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Done! Also took out the flags, they're redundant as said in WP:Flags. Asendoh (talk) 08:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) --Ged UK (talk) 10:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Source of confirmations
Most of the lower classes rider confirmations is completely news to me, as the official MotoGP site nor any other that I can find through the internet takes interest in their "silly season". Where exactly do you people get this information that lets you post it here? One example, I took interest that Mattia Pasini was signed by Team Toth, and thus I searched for their official site for confirmation but there is none. To be quite honest, I don't really doubt the credibility of the confirmations. It's more about curiosity about where I can follow these transfers daily, because I sure take much more interest in these championships than MotoGP itself. ~ Ravsieg (talk)
 * The main problem with this is that only MotoGP has a good news coverage, while other classes are often not covered that well, so the news which confirms many of those entries are scattered around many magazines, programmes and websites... for example, I read about many of them in the Italian magazine Motosprint, but I can't use it as a reference. In your case, Pasini was left out by Polaris World (the team closed) and was not picked up by Gilera; the rumours said that he could either go to Team Toth or Cardion AB. So, maybe it's early guesswork to say Pasini will go to Team Toth but it isn't completely wrong too. So, to answer you, there isn't really a single source, there are many. The problem is, we probably won't have a reliable list for the lower classes until the testing starts in March... so for now I'd leave the list as it is, maybe just change the section name to provisional participants or something similar. Asendoh (talk) 09:08, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with sources in foreign languages, there's enough online translation tools around to enable WP:V to be effective. See Verifiability for more! --Ged UK (talk) 10:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, the entry for Stefan Bradl and Grizzly Gas is surprising when Julian Ryder said on Eurosport that they were pulling out. I'm of the opinion that for the lower classes, the moves should be sourced or removed. Readro (talk) 12:55, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This sure is way too tricky, I think it's right that we should wait until the official testing or official provisional team listing to release any confirmed information. I remember the Portuguese live commentators announced Rabat would be stepping up to 250cc to partner Wilairot on the Thai Honda, and now the article has Faubel there while Rabat remains on 125cc. Also, I think it was confirmed that Barberá would join Sito Pons' Jack & Jones WRB in 250cc and that it'd be either Simone Corsi or Axel Pons (even though this sounds wrong, it was what they said) partnering him. However, there's no sign of Barberá on the list. It's just too difficult to assume which info is correct, but it's still interesting to know what is -almost- confirmed or unreliably confirmed so I think a provisional list should stay put until, as I said before, any official list is released by MotoGP themselves. ~ Ravsieg (talk) 14:51, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think part of the problem is that the 250cc seems to be on the verge of collapse; several teams/manufacturers have pulled out, which means several riders have ended up staying in 125 rather than going to where they had planned. But that's speculation on the article, not the article. If we can't source stuff, then maybe we should pull it. --Ged UK (talk) 21:15, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Kawasaki
Has anyone seen anything official yet on Kawasaki's apparent withdrawl from this season? I've only seen rumours on a variety of sites, but nothing from FIM/MotoGP or Kawasaki themeselves. --Ged UK (talk) 12:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I remember, they'll probably issue an official press note this week or the next. Asendoh (talk) 18:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Preseason section
So much has happened in this preseason (single tyre manufacturer, cost-cutting measures, the Kawasaki withdrawal, the cancellation of Hungarian GP) that I think simple notes on the article are not enough. I'm planning sum it all up in a preseason section... how should I call it? Asendoh (talk) 16:52, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

S.Aoyama Bridgestone?
According with this image...

link

... Shuhei Aoyama wore Bridgestone tyres in 250's race of yesterday... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juanralvaro (talk • contribs) 09:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, interesting. I thought 250s were single tyres, but obviously not. I'll check the MotoGP site for more info. -- Ged UK  13:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find any new links (they all dated back to 2005 or 2006), but if we find a source we can put it in the table.
 * (I also changed the link so it doesn't display a redlink, hope you won't take it as an offence)
 * Asendoh (talk) 14:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The 250s and 125s can run any tyre they want. It just so happens that most of them have gone for Dunlops (i.e. all the regular riders). The Japanese wild cards tend to ride Bridgestones for what I guess must be nationalistic reasons. Readro (talk) 17:39, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I know, I just wanted a reference. Asendoh (talk) 18:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Team flags
For the 1000000th time a user has added flags near to the team names of all classes. Is this a thing we want to keep? I personally dislike it, because they don't add anything particular to the page, and they tend to clutter it as written in WP:Flags. Same could apply to manifacturer standings... but I want to know what other users think. Asendoh (talk) 13:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Wild card
I have a suggestion to assign a color for the wild-card riders on the standings, such as S. Aoyama and Watanabe, just to shows the difference between regular riders and wild-card riders. So it would look like this. The colour light green is just a suggestion as I directly used the colour from participants table. I would like to know what the other users think about this suggestion before actually applying it on the article. Martin tamb (talk) 05:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Riders marked with light blue background are eligible for Rookie of the Year awards.
 * Riders marked with light green background are wild-card riders.
 * Rounds marked with light blue background were under wet race conditions.
 * Personally I don't like it, I think that the ROY light blue is already not that useful (it's not an important trophy), another color would add more mess. I think that the fact that the rider is a wildcard is already highlighted in the participants section, and that the results table are just for results, regardless of the fact the riders are wildcards or not. Plus, it would bring the obvious replacement rider highlight with it, and it would cause problems if a rider obtained points both as a wildcard and as a replacement (see Ben Spies in 2008).Asendoh (talk) 15:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with User:Asendoh, regarding the Spies situation of last year. Cs-wolves  (talk)  19:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the responses. Sorry I didn't aware about Ben Spies situation last year. I also agrees with User:Asendoh that the Rookie's light blue background are not really that useful, also for wet race's light blue background, which create a confusion for me the first time I saw them. But I still think that it would be nice to differ the regular riders and replacement/wild-card rider, so that we can compare their performance, perhaps assigning just one colour for both replacement and wild-card rider and removing the light blue rookie background colour, so that there are really only two categories, regular and non-regular riders. But this is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree and comment on this. Thanks. Martin tamb (talk) 02:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that the wet rounds highlight is in fact useful, as different set of rules take place when the race is declared wet (in MotoGP they use the flag-to-flag rule, which allows to change bike, and they stop and restart the race in lower classes). Asendoh (talk) 11:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If anything, the rookie colour should be changed. The wet conditions denotation in light blue should stay, but I think a colour such as orange or gold should denote rookies. Just my two cents. Cs-wolves  (talk)  13:46, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, User:Cs-wolves's idea about the rookie colour sounds better. There are plenty of colours, the tables would seem clearer if the rookies and wet race have different colour. Anyway, thanks for the responses, really appreaciated. Martin tamb (talk) 10:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Mention of points, e.g. Gold 	Winner (25), ...
I found the point round-up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing#Scoring

...but it would be much more convenient if it were included on the actual season page in the key to the 'Positions Table' so comparisons between riders, races gone, races to go, can be more easily made. Of course if you're an avid motogp follower then you just know that the winner gets 25, 2nd gets 20 etc. but it can't be assumed that most people that visit this page are that knowledgeable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.47.230 (talk) 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it could be a bit more readable that way. It will be done by Sunday. Asendoh (talk) 11:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I like how you did it on the Italiano version of the page. By the way Sunday's gone.. I won't touch it myself, I'm sure it would go south. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.47.230 (talk) 10:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To be honest, it wasn't me on the Italian wiki... I don't think I've ever made a single edit on that wiki despite being Italian :) Anyway I just forgot, I put it in now. Asendoh (talk) 11:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Talmácsi
Why is Gábor Talmácsi not eligable for MotoGP Rookie of the Year? is it because he didn't start the season: does that matter? Officially Mr X (talk) 22:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A rider must complete a full season to be eligible for ROY. Since he started just at the sixth race, he's not eligible for MotoGP BUT he was eligible for 250cc as he began the season in that class. Anyway if you take a look at the official Entry List for the Catalan GP (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/xx/2009/CAT/MotoGP/Entry.pdf here) you'll see he's not marked for ROY. Asendoh (talk) 11:40, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Interchange of RSA/LE Aspar/Balatonring
After the moving of Talmácsi to MotoGP (since Catalunya), Aspar reordered the motos of his two teams (Mapfre & Balatonring). Di Meglio (Mapfre) has now the RSA of Talmácsi, & the former LE of Di Meglio passes to the rider of Balatonring.

http://www.motociclismo.es/Deporte/julian-simon-pole-gran-premio-catalunya-montmel%C3%B3-kw-noticia.jsp%3Fid%3D7654 (in Spanish).


 * I don't really know what to do... is just listing both bikes for the teams fine for everyone, or does someone have a better idea? Asendoh (talk) 17:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

MotoGP turmoil
I saw many edits today about the recent dismissal of Takahashi and Gibernay from MotoGP and for the moment I reverted them back. I propose: -for Gibernau's results table, to put WD on the next race (German GP) and leave the rest blank, as they did for last year's Super Aguri drivers in F1 -to leave Takahashi's results blank from the United States GP on -to leave both entries on the participants table. What do you think of this? Asendoh (talk) 20:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally believe WD is wrong and should be used if the team actually show up to a race, but don;t race. Withdrawn from the race rather than the season. And I believe WD was wrong last year for Super Aguri. Certainly WD for the rest of the season is completely wrong. List of participants definately should be representative of the whole season, not just the current race. --Falcadore (talk) 20:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Also what does the * represent against Hayate Racing Team*, there is no asterisk beneath explaining. --Falcadore (talk) 20:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In fact, perhaps this is the moment to open a new paragraph about the crise and the MotoGP World Championship. The WD of Gibernau's team in MotoGP, the WD of Milar-Juegos Lucky in 250, the WD of Haojue of 125... too WD's to treat it isolated... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.34.19.243 (talk) 09:07, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Results Table Suggestion
Wouldn't using the results legend template (key) at the top of the results sheet free up more space? The results legend alongside the results table is taking up space that could be used for information such as the full team name rather than just the bike brand.Orsoni (talk) 08:47, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean something like this?
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size:85%" border="1"

! Colour ! Result
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| Gold
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| Silver
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| Bronze
 * bgcolor="#dfffdf"| Green
 * bgcolor="#cfcfff"| Blue
 * bgcolor="#efcfff"| Purple
 * bgcolor="#ffcfcf"| Red
 * bgcolor="#000000" style="color:white"| Black
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| Winner
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2nd place
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| 3rd place
 * bgcolor="#dfffdf"| Finished, in points
 * bgcolor="#cfcfff"| Finished, no points
 * bgcolor="#efcfff"| Did not finish
 * bgcolor="#ffcfcf"| Did not qualify
 * bgcolor="#000000" style="color:white"| Disqualified
 * }
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%; text-align:center"

!valign="middle"| Pos !valign="middle"| Rider !valign="middle"| Bike ! QAT 🇶🇦 ! JPN 🇯🇵 ! SPA 🇪🇸 !style="background:#8fcfdf;"| FRA 🇫🇷 !style="background:#8fcfdf;"| ITA 🇮🇹 ! CAT
 * - valign="top"

! NED 🇳🇱 ! USA 🇺🇸 ! GER 🇩🇪 ! GBR

! CZE 🇨🇿 ! IND 🇺🇸 ! RSM 🇸🇲 ! POR 🇵🇹 ! AUS 🇦🇺 ! MAL 🇲🇾 ! VAL

!valign="middle"| Pts ! 1 ! 151 ! 2 ! 142
 * align="left"| 🇮🇹 Rossi
 * Yamaha
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#cfcfff"| 16
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| 3
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * align="left"| 🇪🇸 Lorenzo
 * Yamaha
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| 3
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#efcfff"| Ret
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| 3
 * }
 * Asendoh (talk) 12:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I meant to just have the link at the top of the results chart. Like this:

(key)
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%; text-align:center"

!valign="middle"| Pos !valign="middle"| Rider !valign="middle"| Bike ! QAT 🇶🇦 ! JPN 🇯🇵 ! SPA 🇪🇸 !style="background:#8fcfdf;"| FRA 🇫🇷 !style="background:#8fcfdf;"| ITA 🇮🇹 ! CAT
 * - valign="top"

! NED 🇳🇱 ! USA 🇺🇸 ! GER 🇩🇪 ! GBR

! CZE 🇨🇿 ! IND 🇺🇸 ! RSM 🇸🇲 ! POR 🇵🇹 ! AUS 🇦🇺 ! MAL 🇲🇾 ! VAL

!valign="middle"| Pts ! 1 ! 151 ! 2 ! 142
 * align="left"| 🇮🇹 Rossi
 * Yamaha
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#cfcfff"| 16
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| 3
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * align="left"| 🇪🇸 Lorenzo
 * Yamaha
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| 3
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#efcfff"| Ret
 * bgcolor="#ffffbf"| 1
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#dfdfdf"| 2
 * bgcolor="#ffdf9f"| 3
 * }

Orsoni (talk) 08:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Stoner's missed races
Since I'm tired of the edits made on Stoner's three races when he was absent... what are we going to put in the results table? DNS is not an option, in my opinion it's only for the riders who took part in the qualyfing session but not in the race. INJ may be a solution, but he wasn't out with a canonical injury. The best fot me is to leave it all blank like in the current revision, but I want to know what other users think. Asendoh (talk) 17:59, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest DNP. Loosmark (talk) 18:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Blank. If you're not there your not part of the race. INJ is a mode of retirement. If we have INJ, then we'd have to have abbreviations for crash, engine failure and all the other types of not finishing. If you were there in practice or qualifying but get injured before the race its DNS. If you are out injured and can't race at all its blank. Very simple. So simple its right there in the Key.
 * The accompanying text should tell the story of Stoner's illness and Kallio's injury-missed race. The points table should not be used as a substitute for written description. --Falcadore (talk) 21:19, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion
Wouldn't the riders' table look better/more linear if every line was of the same height? I mean, for the riders column: flag, first name under the flag, surname under the name... Riders with a short first name are given a line with a smaller line height.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.50.46.202 (talk) 12:02, 1 November 2009 (UTC)