Talk:25th Infantry Division "Bologna"

This division was not motorised
I note that Jim Sweeney believes that autotrasportabile is the same as motorised ((cur) (prev) 09:39, 9 April 2009 Jim Sweeney (talk | contribs) m (5,506 bytes) (moved 17 Infantry Division Pavia to 17 Motorised Division Pavia: correct name) (undo) ). It is not. The Italian army used two different words for two different things for a reason. Autotrasportabile means that a division could be moved by truck by virtue of its organisation, but that it did not have the transport capacity as part of its own structure to do so, i.e. it would depend on transport being made available to it by higher headquarters to be moved by truck (this was the same system as was used by the British army for its infantry divisions in the war. Motorised means that a division was fully equipped with trucks sufficient to transport it. Therefore the correct name of e.g. Pavia in English would be "truck moveable", not "motorised". http://niehorster.orbat.com/019_italy/40_organ/div_autotrans_40as.html I therefore think that all the articles about the North African infantry divisions should be renamed accordingly, in order to avoid giving the wrong impression. 79.74.113.219 (talk) 07:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a note in the text that covers this --Jim Sweeney (talk) 08:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Name of the Division
Per comments in his latest diff, he appears to have a point. Due to a move requiring me to sell off most of my desert related works, I am having to relay on Google Books mostly and no longer have access to some more academic works on the subject. I have only looked at English language sources to establish the common English name. There does not appear to be one.

The following source labels the division "semi-motorized", "partially motorized", or "autotrasportabile"


 * Pettibone, The Organization and Order of Battle of Militaries in World War II
 * Burgwyn, Mussolini Warlord: Failed Dreams of Empire, 1940-1943
 * Various, Germany and the Second World War, Vol 3
 * Mitcham, Triumphant Fox (he also calls the division an infantry division)

The following sources labels the division "infantry"


 * Friedrich, The Cruel Slaughter of Adolf Hitler
 * Jowett, The Italian Army 1940-45 (2): Africa 1940-43 (To note, on page 13 he also calls them motorized divisions, but comments that the term was largely theoretical)
 * Mitcham, Rommel's Desert War: The Life and Death of the Afrika Korps
 * Latimer, Alamein
 * Friedrich, The Cruel Slaughter of Adolf Hitler
 * Majdalany, The Battle of El Alamein: Fortress in the Sand
 * Mitcham, The Rise of the Wehrmacht: The German Armed Forces in World War II
 * Moreman, Desert Rats: British 8th Army in North Africa 1941-43
 * Carver, Dilemmas of the Desert War

The following sources just call the division variants of the "25th Bologna Division"


 * Playfair, The Mediterranean and Middle East Volumes I through III
 * Latimer, Tobruk 1941: Rommel's Opening Move
 * Battistelli, Italian soldier in North Africa 1941-43
 * Ford, El Alamein 1942
 * Ford, Operation Crusader 1941
 * Fuller, A Military History of the Western World, vol 3
 * Kurowski, Das Afrika Korps: Erwin Rommel and the Germans in Africa, 1941-43
 * Boog, Germany and the Second World War: Vol 6

It would seem, without any other evidence, the title of the article is incorrect. The next question would be, what is the most accurate description?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 05:30, 17 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: "The Cruel Slaughter of Adolf Hitler" appears to be a self-published book published via lulu.com, and so cannot be used as a source for Wikipedia articles, per WP:RS. -- The Anome (talk) 08:16, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 21 February 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to 25th Infantry Division Bologna. Number   5  7  22:07, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

25th Motorised Division Bologna → 25th Bologna Division or 25th Infantry Division Bologna – Per the sources above. EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 16:10, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The last one seems the most appropriate since it's the literal translation of the Italian-language name.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:10, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support 25th Infantry Division Bologna Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 09:26, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support 25th Infantry Division Bologna. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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