Talk:A4e/Archive 1

Human Rights Abuses?
There have already been a torrent of Human Rights abuses by this and similar profit-making companies: see for example, . In Dorset, for example, people who are law-abiding and have paid Tax and NI since leaving school, but who now find themselves unemployed through no fault of their own, are forced to take part in the same 'voluntary' schemes that are used to punish thieves and burglars as part of 'Community Payback' schemes < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBxO02lo5TA&NR=1> ie they work alongside criminals, and have their benefits withdrawn under a 'sanction' if they refuse. This is clearly in flagrant breach of Article 4 of the Human Rights Act: perhaps you could analyse why Taxpayer's money is being used by the current British Government to abuse its' own citizens, particularly since it costs more to place people in the hands of this service provider than it does to leave them on benefits, conducting their own jobsearches, or working part time and claiming benefits for the weeks when they do not find any work?

Fraudulent Activities?
The article appears heavily biased - too little information on the frauds this company have already admitted, and far too little emphasis on the sheer volume of unemployed who are 'parked' in an A4e office, to apply for the same vacancies another 1,000 A4e 'trainees' have already applied for. Some useful links to Unemployment Action Groups who are attempting to prevent the use of unemployed citizens (taxpayers who have paid into the system) as cheap labour by businesses who are perfectly capable of paying a Minimum Wage are  and . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.235.88 (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Keep
A4e are bidding for large contracts from the UK government. This makes them a significant company and notable for an article. Crookesmoor (talk) 01:44, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much! I've been to A4E on several seperate occassions, and considering it's a multinational organisation with government contracts, I never understood why there was no article. By the way, I changed the launch date back to 1980s - the official website says "over 20 years ago" i.e. before 1989. Random articles are third party, for this kind of thing, a first party source is better. Digifiend (talk) 00:59, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The official website, which I have just read, mentions about those losing their jobs and doesn't mention about the formation of the A4e group.

In the UK, over 20 years ago, large numbers of Sheffield steelworkers began losing their jobs as their once proud industry started to decline. It was a social disaster. We started A4e in order to provide the redundant workers with the training they needed to find work in other industries. And – the flip side of the coin – we were able to supply companies with newly trained and enthusiastic workers. Whether you like to claim it started in 1989 is up to you - the official date is 1991 and 1980s is misleading: even though 1989 would be in the 1980s it makes it seem to have been formed much longer i.e. 1982 1983 etc. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia so it requires factual content - and the 1980s isn't true. 86.13.184.204 (talk) 08:18, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Fraud Investigation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/28/fraud-inquiry-government-jobs-scheme

If someone with a bit more editing knowledge than me could add that as a reference for the paragraph about the investigation, that'd be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.249.248.141 (talk) 00:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Age dispute: two articles evidence
every woman article states:

Emma set up her company A4e in 1991 initially to provide skills and employment training for workers made unemployed by the decline in Sheffield’s steel industry. She has since built A4e into a competitive public services company that delivers a range of services to, amongst others, the financially excluded and long-term unemployed. Today A4E turns over in excess of £100 million.

women speakers article states:

ACTION FOR EMPLOYMENT

Action for Employment (A4e) was founded by top female entrepreneur, Emma Harrison, in 1991. It is a privately owned organisation offering employment, welfare, education, training and business support services to the public and private sectors.

This company was incorporated at Companies House on the 22nd July 1991 as “BROOMCO (490) LIMITED” (a shelf company name, it recently got renamed after it was formed) and later the name changed twice and the recent one is called A4e Ltd. I can't find any additional information about A4e before 1991 - so the 1980's stuff I am very unsure about.

resources included in the actual article Ipswich Unemployed Action (talk) 23:15, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find her daddy set it all up for her, and she just uses other people's skills on a minimum wage, under threat of the sack if they 'underperform' - its hardly been 'work work work ' for her in the past decade. As David Brent (The Office) said 'If work was so wonderful, the rich would keep more of it for themselves'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.228.118 (talk) 19:25, 24 February 2012‎

A4e Deutschland
I propose a new heading. Unfortunately I can not speak English. A4e Germany died. After initial successes, the parent company took over power in 2009. Due to lack of expertise, the company was fully driven into the wall. Something like that ... 88.65.113.51 (talk) 18:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC) eine böse sache - like in germany wer wird wohl geopfert werden? andrew dutton? marc lovel? der iraner ist wohl nicht interessant?

I have some emails written to Emma, but it responded only stupid lawyers. But now they get what they deserve. who will be sacrificed? certainly not emma. andrew? I think it's a good thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.65.69.118 (talk) 23:09, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

£8.5 million salary for Emma
The Public Accounts Committee yesterday (08/02/2012) attacked A4e during a session on the introduction of the Work Programme. They wanted to know why a company with such an "abysmal" record got contracts. Andrew Dutton, A4e's CEO, had to respond to questioning about the company's UK turnover last year of £160m - £180m, all from government contracts, and the £11m it paid out in dividends, 87% of which went to Emma Harrison. Committee chair, Margaret Hodge ensured that they "spent some time trying to establish where money paid to A4e to deliver government contracts ended up." She told Dutton, "You're one of the first examples we have had of a company which is entirely dependent on public contracts for your existence. In terms of looking for value for money, we have an interest in following the pound. All your business is public contracts. You and Emma Harrison have to accept that there will be a different interest in the remuneration and profits made because the profits you make come from the taxes that ordinary, hard-working people pay." The example of abysmal performance cited was the Pathways to Work programme, where only 9% of clients got into work.

Fiona MacTaggart MP said all A4e achieved was "job substitution" - "companies delivering the Work Programme, getting paid for pushing their clients into jobs that would otherwise have been filled by other jobseekers without the need for a third-party payment." "In my constituency," she said, "a lot of people are being given work experience, unpaid, in retail, and then the retailers, I think, are being directly encouraged to employ people who have been given this one-month or two-, three-month interview process … and when they're offering jobs, a company like A4e, which operates in Slough, can say to Primark, if you want more of our free workers, I hope you are going to give our people 20-hour-week jobs. I'm sure it's not quite as overt as that, but I believe there is a risk of that happening." 80.42.232.56 (talk) 23:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)Dr Lofthouse80.42.232.56 (talk) 23:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Mark of the Beast in A4e Telephone Number - End of the World for Some?
The contact line number for A4e (http://www.mya4e.com/2012/02/23/ersa-responds-to-criticisms-levelled-at-a4e/) hasbeen changed to 0800 345666 - does anyone know why? When dealing with distressed people, its customary never to use '666' because of its connotations to religious types as 'the number of the beast'); it appears it can trigger disturbed behaviour in christians who believe it is the mark of the Antichrist, and heralds the end of the world. I would have thougth DWP outsourcers given the responsibility of helping people with mental health problems (who have difficulties finding work with an honest CV) would have been sensitive to this - it appears to have been changed since the fraud allegations were made public - does anyone have a link to an archived page? Its rather an odd thing to do on a company website. Will have a look. Many christian jobseekers have been distressed at having to phone A4e because of this, as it is forbidden to use the 'number of the beast' at all. It is also an encryption of the holy prophets name (see Wiki entry at , and should therefore NEVER be used; likewise to some Futurist Christians, is a representation of the Papacy, and signals 'End Times'. ): I'm sure the number has previously been banned from use by the UK government for this reason, but cannot remember when or by who. Why Emma Harrison used this insult to some religious groups is a mystery. I thought Cameron's government 'did God'? 212.139.106.3 (talk) 01:30, 25 February 2012 (UTC)praisebe01:30, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Bogus success rates all over the EU?
Can anyone verify these figures? According to A4e, their success rate in getting people back to employment is 80% +, and 66% in Germany . Seems incompatible with the post below that says they had to pull out of Germany because of poor results.212.139.106.3 (talk) 01:49, 25 February 2012 (UTC)bolshy212.139.106.3 (talk) 01:49, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Fraud Allegations by Former Clients
On BBC2 Newsnight (27th Feb, 2012), a former client revealed A4e advised her to lie to the Jobcentre (and hence break the law) in order to 'try' a job, for which she was refused full contractual details before accepting it - and threatened with sanctions for refusing the post. This client refused, as she ultimately intends to join the police force. MP Margaret Hodges, who chairs a Parliamentary Committee on standards in public life, with particular interest in  contracts with A4e, said she was interested in hearing from any other former clients who may wish to let her know about instances of fraud. Her Westminster contact page and Email addresses are i listed as House of Commons, hodgem@parliament.uk and Constituency 102 North Street, margarethodge@hotmail.co.uk (see ). 79.70.224.64 (talk) 23:12, 27 February 2012 (UTC)twl79.70.224.64 (talk) 23:12, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

New Allegations of Fraud by Trainee Police Officer
On BBC2 Newsnight (27th Feb, 2012), a former client claimed A4e advised her to lie to the Jobcentre (and hence break the law) in order to 'try' a job when Ms. Harrison was still at the helm. The client said she was refused full contractual details, so refused, as she ultimately intended to join the police force and wanted to obey statute - she was advised by A4e staff that she should simply 'not tell the Jobcentre' and try it for a week, as this was the A4e way of going about things. She refused. MP Margaret Hodges, who chairs a Parliamentary Committee on standards in public life said she would be interested in hearing about other  allegations of fraud and irregularities from other clients. Her Email addresses are listed as House of Commons, (hodgem@parliament.uk) and Constituency margarethodge@hotmail.co.uk. ).79.70.224.64 (talk) 23:22, 27 February 2012 (UTC)twl79.70.224.64 (talk) 23:22, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

A4e Techniques and Policies for dealing with critical feedback?
Is there a link to official A4e policy on dealing with dissatisfied clients? There is an allegation at  that staff at A4e have previously reported factual blogs as 'defamatory' to hosting services, in order to have criticisms removed from the internet by the service providers. Two attempts are mentioned on the blog above, neither of which was ultimately successful, and the blogs were reinstated. I wondered if there were any more examples, and whether we could include a 'Management Approaches' section to the main page, as a list of the techniques that have made A4e one of the most apparently successful companies around must be worth knowing more about.23:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)stalinandothermenofsteel79.70.224.64 (talk) 23:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Pathways Results - inaccurate
Just reading this article, it quotes Margaret Hodge's claim that the performance of a4e on Pathways as 9%. This is inaccurate, as can be read in the minutes of the meeting in which this alelgation was made when Ms Hodge was corrected. The actual performance was 24% - actually one of the better performers on the Pathways programme.

Hodge's claim and the reporting of it in the UK media has been heavily disputed by A4e with most publications acknowleding the figure Hodge gave as been wrong. As such this article is also misleading and erroneous.Perhaps this should be amended? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.171.111.194 (talk) 13:54, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above ip address is registered to A4e Gareth E Kegg (talk) 22:28, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

PeoplePlus - Trading name for A4e Ltd.
PeoplePlus Group is a trading name for A4e Ltd., changed to deflect public perception from the activities of the now toxic brand A4e.

For details of A4e's previous activities, see the 2013 Archive — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.54.8 (talk) 16:13, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Page Title - A4e
Hello, I am new to wikipedia but I work for PeoplePlus and have been asked to look at this page as we believe it does not accurately represent us as a company. I have attempted to make updates myself but have since been made aware that this is against the editing guidelines so I have undone them.

The content of this page relates to the company A4e, and while I do believe it to be true, the events and scandals referenced were not committed by PeoplePlus. PeoplePlus was not formed until 2015 through a merger of Avanta, A4e, Skillspoint, Elpis Training and EOS, all of which were purchased by the Staffline group between 2011-2015. The article states that PeoplePlus is a trading name for A4e but this isn't correct. There is a whole new management team and organisational structure in place, it was not simply A4e changing its name. The name change was required to bring the 5 companies under the same banner and to fit in with Stafflines existing divisions (such as drivingplus, agricultureplus etc). We have since also purchased Learndirect Apprenticeships and had significant growth in other divisions such as adult skills, prison education and commercial training programmes - work programme is only a small part of our current operations.

As a company we have worked hard to change the culture and not repeat any of the mistakes made by A4e in the past but this page only reflects the history of a small part of our business.

I appreciate that the content of this page is factually correct but I would like to request that someone edit the title back to A4e - as that accurately represents the content of the page. It would be great to also have a separate PeoplePlus page if this is possible - I would be happy to provide any information needed to create the new page.

Thanks for reading! Emma EmmabrooksPP (talk) 11:57, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply 03-JAN-2019

 * Any request to change an article's title should be submitted using the  template specifically as a controversial move request process requiring discussion amongst the wider community.
 * A controversial requested move typically takes about 7 days to complete.
 * Before taking this step, please ensure that you are well acquainted with the requested move process by thoroughly reviewing its procedures.
 * More information can be found at requested moves. Regards,  Spintendo   16:19, 3 January 2019 (UTC)


 * From my understanding A4E was simply renamed to PeoplesPlus and wasn't a newly created business .... It's also my understanding A4E was simply renamed due to the bad reputation they got,
 * A4E should continue to be in the article although I do agree it needs a lot of work doing. – Davey 2010 Talk 19:50, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 17 January 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Will move in due course. - My plan is to revert back to pre-PeoplePlus status and then hopefully a whole new article can be created - I believe the "rebrand" stories are all thanks to this article - Staffline have indeed brought various providers which there's tons of sources on, Cheers, – Davey 2010 Talk 01:52, 18 January 2019 (UTC) – Davey 2010 Talk 01:52, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

PeoplePlus → A4e – This page should be named A4e to accurately reflect the content. EmmabrooksPP (talk) 13:21, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

I would like to declare that I work for PeoplePlus and have been asked to look at this page as we believe it does not accurately represent us as a company.

The content of this page relates to the company A4e, and while I believe it to be true, the events and scandals referenced were not committed by PeoplePlus. PeoplePlus was not formed until 2015 through a merger of Avanta, A4e, Elpis Training and EOS, all of which were purchased by the Staffline group between 2011-2015. A4e was the last to be purchased. Information about the formation of PeoplePlus can be found on the Staffline website – https://www.staffline.co.uk/about-us/the-company/our-history

The article states that PeoplePlus is a trading name for A4e but this isn't correct. The name change was required in order to merge the 4 companies and to fit in with Stafflines existing divisions (such as drivingplus, agricultureplus etc). More information can be found on companies house - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03749598 - where you will see that various companies named A4e/Action for employment were dissolved in 2015. There are still a couple of active entries on companies house, these remain active due to contractual requirements with Department for Work and Pensions which could not simply be switched to a new provider but will be dissolved as soon as the contracts have ended.

Avanta was also part of the PeoplePlus merger and has it’s own Wikipedia entry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avanta - which states “Staffline later bought Avanta's Work Programme competitor, A4e, before rebranding the new composite company PeoplePlus”. This page remains as Avanta, it has not been renamed to PeoplePlus despite being a larger part of the current company. It also confirms that PeoplePlus is indeed a ‘composite’ company, not simply a rebrand of A4e which is currently claimed.

A lot of the information contained in the page is factually incorrect in relation to PeoplePlus – such as stating Emma Harrison as the chairman – Emma Harrison has never had anything to do with PeoplePlus and the headquarters, revenue, number of employees are all incorrect.

What was A4e is such a small part of what PeoplePlus do, it is simply not an accurate depiction of the truth to name this page PeoplePlus

I will be happy to answer any questions around this or provide any evidence or verification as requested.

EmmabrooksPP (talk) 13:21, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose - at least without a well WP:RS sourced rewrite. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:10, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose - What needs to happen is this article needs to be moved back to A4E and then PeoplePlus needs to be created as a whole new article, Various news sources are stating A4e was a rebrand however I feel that may be down to this very article,
 * – Davey 2010 Talk 01:49, 18 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.