Talk:AA-52 machine gun

Page creation
I know I did a horrible job on this page but I wanted to try to create a page about this gun since I saw it referenced in another article. I think it would be good if someone with more knowledge would create a table like on the FAMAS page (I attempted and butchered it).

AA-52 Handguard Question
Why didnt the AA-52/NF-1 ever come with a Handguard/Front pistol grip?, Wouldnt it scorch the users hand when on patrol?

Was a handguard ever considered?

re: Update of service use by France, dates of entry into service of the AA-52; elaboration of exports of this weapon.
No, the legs of the bipod of the AA-52/AA NF-1 were used in the assault as a front handhold, and no forward handguard seems ever to have been designed or considered. Most GPMGs (General Purpose Machinegun), other than the U.S. M-60, lacked any front forearm/handguard assembly. This includes the FN MAG- except for the U.S. M-240B version used by the U.S Army, which, true to U.S practice, has an elaborate handguard assembly- the MG-42 series and the PK series GPMGs. This was probably due to differences in attitudes as to the tactical use of the machinegun in European armies as compared to the U.S. Army, where there was a requirement for the GPMG to fill the role of a squad automatic weapon à la the BAR. In the event, the French ended up using the AA-52 in Algeria much as would the U.S. military in Vietnam several years later, that is as both a base of fire and squad automatic weapon.

Note on service in French military: according to one of the sources (see "Les armes de l'armée française: 1935 à nos jours" by Olivier Achard, Editions du Portail, La Tour du Pin CEDEX, 1995) the first AA-52s were not produced until February 1956, when MAC manufactured the first 200 guns. The French army did not officially take delivery of any AA-52s until the 5th of April 1956. The weapon was far too late to see any action during the French Indochina War of 1946-1954, and there seems to be no photographic evidence of any use in Indochina of the 100 pre-series guns built by MAC during the late summer and early fall of 1952. After doing much photo research of French units operating at Suez in October and November 1956 (especially refer to the lavishly illustrated and excellent "Suez, 1956" by Paul Gaujac, Lavauzelle, Paris CEDEX, 1986) it seems that none of the units deployed there were equipped with AA-52s, instead the MAC FM-24/29 remained ubiquitous in the LMG/squad auto role. The gun does not consistently show up in photography from the Algerian War of 1954-1962 until ca. June 1959; however, there is a photo in another source of troops of the 3ème RPC waiting to board Aéronavale Piasecki H-21s who are equipped with an AA-52 that may have been taken as early as November 1956; however, it seems more likely that this shot was taken during the Djeurf operation of April 1958 (see bottom of page 18 "Hélicoptères et Commandos-Marine en Algerie, 1954-1962" by René Bail, Lavauzelle, Paris CEDEX, 1983). Since 2001, the gun has had somewhat of a renaissance as an infantry support weapon with French troops in Afghanistan, as the 5.56x45mm NATO FN MINIMI has often been found to lack the penetrative power and range of the 7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1 GPMG. This comes after several years where the weapon was almost exclusively relegated to use as an AFV weapon or as a fixed position support machinegun.

Note on exports: AA-52 and AA-NF-1 GPMGs, seem to have been exported in some numbers to countries which did not ordinarily purchase French small arms. Many countries which took delivery of French built AFVs or helicopters also received quantities of these GPMGs. One of these countries was Iraq (7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1?) on her Panhard AML-60 and AML-90 armored cars and Panhard M-3 APCs, as well as on her AMX-10P series MICVs/IFVs. It is likely that they received some more AA-NF-1s with deliveries of the 85 AMX-GCT/AU F-1 155mm SPGs they took delivery of ca. 1985. Also, in 1981, they are reported by SIPRI to have received five AMX-30D ARVs (perhaps to support the promised AMX-GCTs, as well as their 13 ROLAND II SAM TELs- of which originally 18 were reported in 1986- some lost in fighting?); these AMX-30D ARVs were probably supplied with one 7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1 each. Widely repeated reports at the time (from ca. 1968-1982) that the Iraqi ORBAT included approximately 100 AMX-30 MBTs- which would have been armed with a cupola mounted AA-52 or AA-NF-1- have been put into great doubt since then by more recent reports (see Jane's Main Battle Tanks, Christopher F. Foss, Jane's, London 1983 and 1986, and any Jane's Armour and Artillery Yearbook since that time). There does not seem to be evidence that any AMX-30 MBTs were captured from the Iraqis nor destroyed by Iranian forces between 1980 and 1988, nor by allied forces either during the 1991 Gulf War, nor during the 2003 invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq. Other countries which at one time or another have been confirmed to have used or likely to have used, AA-52 GPMGs are: Algeria (weapons left behind by the French after 1962); Argentina (7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1? mounted on Argentine Panhard ERC-90 F-1 Lynx armored cars and on Panhard AML-90 armored cars, and possibly on some Argentine AMX VCI APCs); Cambodia (7.5x54mm AA-52 mounted on their small quantity of Panhard AML-60 and AML-90 armored cars); Lebanon (7.5x54mm AA-52, used as an infantry gun, but also mounted on Lebanese Panhard AML-90 armored cars, AMX VCI APCs, Panhard M-3 APCs, and likely on some Lebanese RVI (Renault Véhicules Industriels) VAB APCs); Mexico (7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1 mounted on their Panhard ERC-90 F-1 Lynx armored cars and Panhard VBL recon. vehicles; possibly also used on Mexico's two Panhard VCR PC command vehicles); Nigeria (some 7.5x54mm AA-52 have been reported to have been used by Biafran troops during the Nigerian Civil War 1967-1970; relatively small quantities of 7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1s may have been delivered to the Federal Nigerian Army mounted on Panhard ERC-90 Sagaie armored cars, AML-60 and AML-90 series armored cars, and Panhard M-3 APCs; however, recent photos of Nigerian Panhard VBL recon. vehicles show them equipped with FN MAGs or L-7A1s/L-7A2s instead, and Nigerian Panhard M-3 APCs seen in use in Somalia in 1992-1994 were armed with FN MAGs, not AA-NF-1s; Nigerian forces were also seen in Somalia using the AML-60-12 version of the Panhard AML series armored car armed with a coaxial Browning .50 caliber M-2HB heavy machinegun, instead of the AML-60/7 version, which would have been armed with either twin AA-NF-1s or twin FN MAGs); Qatar (7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1 mounted on Qatari AMX-30S MBTs, AMX-10RC recon. vehicles, Panhard VBL light recon. vehicles, AMX-10P MICVs, AMX VCI and RVI VAB APCs); Somalia (7.5x54mm AA-52 reported in Clinton Ezell's "Small Arms Today" Stackpole, 1988; used as an infantry gun as well as mounted on Somali army Panhard AML series armored cars and M-3 APCs; AA-52 GPMGs seen in use by Somali gunmen in television footage of fighting in Mogadishu during the early 1990s); Tunisia (7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1? Mounted on her Panhard AML-90 armored cars, probably some ground and helicopter mounted guns as well); UAE(7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1 used on her Leclerc and AMX-30B MBTs, Panhard AML 60 and AML 90 armored cars, AMX-10P MICVs, AMX VCI, RVI VAB, Panhard VCR/TT and Panhard M-3 APCs; UAE Panhard M-3 APCs used in Somalia during the 1992-1994 period seen armed with AA-NF-1 GPMGs); Venezuela (7.62x51mm NATO AA-NF-1 mounted on her AMX-30V MBTs, AMX VCI APCs and Panhard AML series armored cars); this list is not exhaustive.SASH155 (talk) 23:21, 15 December 2011 (UTC)SASH155/W. Thomas, Alex. VA

Images to be uploaded on WikiCommons

 * (Photo en version lourde)
 * AA-52 in Afghanistan
 * AA-52 in Afghanistan
 * AA-52 scope
 * AA-52 scope
 * MAC58
 * 
 * AA-52 Fouga Magister
 * AA-52 in 1962
 * 

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Muyhtref (talk • contribs) 01:04, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

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