Talk:Abu Omar al-Baghdadi

Dead
He is dead. , citing: Reuters, AP and CNN. DragonFire1024 12:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Fake
Apparently, this guy never existed. &mdash; BRIAN 0918 • 2007-07-18 18:08Z
 * Can be checked easily by anyone capable of more than basic Arabic. If he is real and Iraqi, his accent would be a dead giveaway: IIRC almost all native Iraqis would have a tendency to pronounce certain "k" sounds like "kh" (the fricative, like clearing your throat) for example, use specific dialect terms. The source is barely citeworthy; it is certainly extremely unreliable. Coalition penetration of the OPFOR inner circle is de facto nonexistent, and Coalition has not exactly a history of hiring the most reliable "local talent". Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 11:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Although I agree 100% that the guy isn't real, the guy who read that was an Iraqi actor... ¤IrønCrøw¤ (Speak to Me) 02:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Cleaning up the article
Since the U.S. military now admits he was fictitious I removed the "biography" and "role in the insurgency" sections as they treated him as a real person. other part so of the article need to be cleaned up to better reflect the fact he never existed. Someone may wish to create sections describing his fictional biography as reported in the media and making it clear that he was never real then the would be acceptable. --Cab88 04:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * the "fictitious" claim is disputed. Doldrums 15:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you must change that he is fictitious. It is not known either way if he is real or not. Just because that captured guy said hes fake doesnt mean he is. Disinformation could be one reason why he said he was fake. But with what we know I think its still premature to call him fictious. I think the article should start with something like bagdahdi is the purported leader of ISI whos existence is in dispute. Just my 2 cents. Personally though I think hes fake just so the ISI can say its led by an iraqi instead of foreigners. 

Of course, the "dispute" comes from Reuters India, and nowhere else. This Indian Reuters "reporter" appears to be directly communicating with the Al Qaeda leadership who are disputing the claim! This makes sense, because the "Reuters India" organization includes (trumpet blare) "Reuters Pakistan!" (which is where OBL lives.) I hope the FBI is interviewing this "reporter" as I write this. 71.215.190.223 05:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

More evidence that he is fake; this is pasted straight from the mnf-iraq web site: "To further this myth, al-Masri [the actual current leader of ISI, or AQI, who is Egyptian] created a fictional political head of the Islamic State of Iraq known as Omar al-Baghdadi. Al-Baghdadi, who has never been seen, is actually an actor named Abu Abdullah al- Naima.  Al-Masri maintains exclusive control over al-Naima as he acts the part of the fictitious al-Baghdadi character.  To make al-Baghdadi appear credible, al-Masri swore allegiance to al-Baghdadi and pledged to obey him, which was essentially swearing allegiance to himself since he knew that Baghdadi was fictitious and a creation of his own. Al-Zawahiri has repeatedly referred to al-Baghdadi in video and Internet statements, further deceiving Iraqi followers and perpetuating the myth of al-Baghdadi." http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12908&Itemid=128 71.215.190.223 05:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "straight from the mnf-iraq web site" - straight from the world's single most unreliable source for specific details about OPFOR personnel. Guess you still wait for the discovery of those thousands of hidden WMDs, ready to launch at 30 minutes' notice, eh? People who can't tell halaal from haraam simply shouldn't be entitled to an opinion here.
 * War. Truth. Casualty. Third-party verification needed. Get it? Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 11:46, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Conclusion from this discussion: the U.S. considers him fictitious, and al-Qaeda and linked groups insist that he is (or was) real. So, that's what the article should clearly represent. --Corriebertus (talk) 17:11, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Name of organization
Isn't it called the Islamic State of Iraq now? DougOfDoom  talk  21:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not quite, the ISI is technically the term for any territory held by that alliance of (mostly) Sunni Islamist groups that succeeded the Mujahideen Shura Council. AQI is just one of them, but 'tis true that their presonnel is over-represented. The others are usually homegrown setups of Iraqi Wahhabi Sunnis. "State" in ISI is to be understood literally, it refers to a piece of land not an organization. But this is why I trust SITE Institute more than Coalition HQ, who usually don't bother about such minutiae.... Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 15:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Resurfaced in the News
As further evidence that the AP is merely the Western mouthpiece of Al Qaeda, the AP has recently reported that "The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, offered $100,000 over the weekend for Vilks' murder." This is the Swedish cartoonist who drew an offensive picture of Muhammed or smoked a cigarette in public or some other thing to offend the delicate terrorists. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gjMdM0OfLG36U6HJqTBrRP9ijcEQ 71.215.190.223 05:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Terrorist category?
This article is included in the Category:Terrorists which specifically states that actions taken must be noted by an absence of a state of war, which doesn't seem to apply in this case. Can someone please explain? - TheMightyQuill 16:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

ID, again
Supposedly Iraqi police now gives his real name as "Hamid Dawud al-Sawi", ex-Iraqi Army (Ba'ath) soldier (officer?). Coalition official opinion seems to be at present that al-Baghdadi's a fabrication and/or a cover identity for Abu Ayyub al-Masri (who himself is somewhat shaky ID-wise). May also be "as-Sawi". Perhaps also "al-/Az-Zawi". Possibly the original is "-Safi" (a clan fom Najaf); I have not found an Iraqi clan named "Sawi" in a quick-n-dirty search.

Source: Al-Arabija, May 7, 2008. Note that Al-A. is the tiniest bit more reliable than the coalition on average, but solely for not being a belligerent party. Meaning they release more bullshit but less propaganda than Coalition military sources. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 15:12, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

yeah, right
They seek him here, They seek him there, Those Frenchies seek him everywhere. Is he in heaven? Or is he in hell? That damned elusive Pimpernel! 13:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Does he really exist?
Or is it just a name each new leader of AQI assumes when the old one dies? 75.76.213.106 (talk) 01:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 17 August 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed. Jenks24 (talk) 23:01, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Abu Abdullah al-Rashid al-Baghdadi → Abu Omar al-Baghdadi – Per WP:COMMONNAME, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi is the more frequently used spelling of the subjects name.

Google searches on the two terms:

Abu Omar al-Baghdadi - 415,000 results Abu Abdullah al-Rashid al-Baghdadi - 35,700 results

Google News searches: Abu Omar al-Baghdadi - 10,100 results Abu Abdullah al-Rashid al-Baghdadi - 48 results Sources that use 'Abu Omar al-Baghdadi' include: the BBC, Reuters and the Long War Journal. More sources can be added, but these are all reliable, mainstream and official ones in their own right. --Ritsaiph (talk) 09:56, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070314153618/http://www.cnn.com:80/2007/WORLD/meast/03/09/iraq.main/index.html?eref=rss_latest to http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/09/iraq.main/index.html?eref=rss_latest
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070312122627/http://english.aljazeera.net:80/NR/exeres/D355EE8F-9733-48D8-9085-97C54385A0B0.htm to http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D355EE8F-9733-48D8-9085-97C54385A0B0.htm
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080509044153/http://www.iht.com:80/articles/ap/2008/05/07/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Al-Qaida-Leader.php to http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/07/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Al-Qaida-Leader.php
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111028150740/http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1477781.php/Iraqi_security_forces_insist_detainee_is_al-Qaeda_leader_ to http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1477781.php/Iraqi_security_forces_insist_detainee_is_al-Qaeda_leader_
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100330172248/http://www.google.com:80/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jnU5Um5Yt65mO2QNLTv4duIRKvrgD9EKGQNO0 to http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jnU5Um5Yt65mO2QNLTv4duIRKvrgD9EKGQNO0
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090107132653/http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/03/09/D8NOSOP80.html to http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/03/09/D8NOSOP80.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070921093400/http://www.iht.com:80/articles/2007/07/18/africa/iraq.php to http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/18/africa/iraq.php

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