Talk:Adrienne Clarkson

NOTICES
PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FOOTNOTES ARE CURRENTLY SECTIONALIZED SO THAT THEY WILL NOT GET JUMBLED OUT OF ORDER. THEY WILL BE MELDED INTO THEIR PROPER SECTION WHEN THE PAGE IS IN BETTER SHAPE Dowew 04:12, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Ms. Clarkson
Ms. Clarkson had an impact on me growing up in Canada. Her take 30 shows and later Fifth Estate were hard news, often going into social issues that Canadians found difficult to face such as spousal abuse, poverty, etc. Her interview with the Shah of Iran should be mentioned, she went in for issues such as torture and military expansion that the Shah had to provide answers for, however she went at it with great diplomacy.

P. Fitzgerald

Clarkson and 9/11

 * After 9/11 happened, she praised Operation Yellow Ribbon, saying that "communities across the country selflessly opened their homes and hearts to stranded air travellers." Chretien and U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci would also do the same thing. They also have never forgotten her standing with both of them on Parliament Hill during the memorial service to honour the victims on September 14, 2001, which over 100,000 attended--the largest single vigil ever seen in the nation's capital.

This bit of phrasing, talking about the (uncited, presumably speculative?) memories of Cretien and Cellucci seems inappropriate to an encyclopedia to me, being suitable rather for a glossy press release. And less glaringly, it seems odd to observe that J.C. and P.C. also praised Yellow Ribbon (in an article about A.C., as contrasted with an article about Yellow Ribbon or 9/11), since that seems to be understandable as baby-kissing writ large. So, I feel that the second two sentences could be cleaned up. In fact, it's possible that this paragraph is not useful, or has undue prominence: is her participation in post-9/11 foofooraw really the most significant event of the first 3 years of her term of office, as the article indirectly suggests? jholman 18:56, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Satirical link
Satirical links are vandalism!? I replaced the satirical link to Clarkson the Terrible.com. There are 2 positive links and a basically glowing encyclopedia entry; plus the link is clearly marked as satirical. She's a head of State, for pete's sake, surely there's room for Clarkson critique on Wikipedia? Flickharrison
 * As far as I'm concerned satire doesn't "cut it." But it's not because it is denigrating to Ms. Clarkson.  I just think that links should be more factual in nature.  If somebody's assembled a collection of negative facts about Ms. Clarkson, it has every reason to be linked, but my sense is that a satirical article is not an appropriate place to link to from an encyclopedic article.  But I'll leave it in there, pending discussion here. - Cafemusique 17:00, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Clarkson's Maiden Name Is Poy in English, Wu in Mandarin and Eng in Cantonese

An editor added that Clarkson is née Poy. But I think the editor confused Adrienne Clarkson with Vivienne Poy, another female Chinese-Canadian politician. Clarkson's maiden name is 伍, which is romanized as Wu or Woo (in Mandarin), or Ng or Eng (in Cantonese). Poy is an unlikely romanization. --Menchi 21:18 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)


 * I see where the Poy editor may have gotten that idea from. I just read an article from the Taiwanese newspaper Central Daily News that says "Vivienne Poy and Adrienne Clarkson are in-laws. This is because Vivienne Poy's husband &#20237;&#34907;&#27402; (in pinyin: Wu1 Wei4-quan1; in Cantonese: Ng5 Wai6-kyun4) is Adrienne Clarkson's younger brother." Maybe Vivienne Poy remarried but didn't change her surname? --Menchi 21:57 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)


 * The answer (found on a forum posting) is that the Poy family's surname was originally Wu/Eng (&#20237;), but changed to Poy (character unknown) after they immigrated to Canada. -Menchi 22:05 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)


 * The following was removed from the article twice without explanation by User:Timtonruben359:
 * (&#20237;&#20912;&#26525;; pinyin: W&#468; B&#299;ng zh&#299;; Cantonese: Ng5 Benk1 zi1)
 * &mdash;Gabbe 18:20, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * Origin of "poy" as explained in this following link: http://www.coibs.com/newversion/chinese/CoibsItemCANews/20020206001.htm . For those who can't read Chinese in this article, it explained that the Ng (&#20237;) surname became "Poy" when the family immigrated to Canada and the grandfather (伍培 Ng Pui) of Adrienne told immigrant official his name as "Ah Pui" and the official took it as the last name which then coined as Poy. However, in an english transcript of Senator Vivienne Poy's address to an australian university, Senator Poy spoke of her grandfather had already used the name Poy in Australia when he opened his store. But Poy was probably not used as a last name in that case. http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/vpoy/english/Special_Interests/speeches/Nortel_Networks_July00.htm--Kvasir 08:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Mandarin??
Is there any merit of listing the Mandarin pronunciation for any of the Poy family members? There is no evidence that the Poys, being originated from southern China (Hakka / Taishan to be precise) even used Mandarin. The Mandarin pronunciation also do not contribute to explain how "Ng" became "Poy" --Kvasir 08:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Her Excellency the Rt Hon.
Regarding Zocky's edit: 'rm "Her excellency, the right honourable". The article shouldn't start like that. Is there a way (and a need) to work this somehow back in?)' I would like to hear why you think the article should not start with her styles and titles.  They are something that a good encyclopedia should include, and in the first sentence is the most natural place to put it.  I think the only other way to include them is in a one-sentence paragraph: "Her official styles and titles are ...",  What about articles about famous miltary figures?  Should their military rank be omitted from the first paragraph?  "Her Excellency the Right Honourable" can be see as a civilian counterpart to military rank. -- Indefatigable 20:41, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Not really. This is not a rank, it's a form of address used for her office. Like "Her majesty". Should pages on monarchs start with "Her Majesty Elisabeth the second is..."? (not that I agree that pages on generals should start with "General Wesley Clark is...")

Zocky 22:26, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Why not start with "Her Excellency" or "Her Majesty"? What is the harm? It adds a fact to the article and causes no harm that I can see.--Indefatigable 00:37, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Good material for a Forms of address article. Salsa Shark 20:45, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Anyways, Madame Clarkson is now only the Right Honourable, she no longer hold the title of Her Excellency. Ctjj.stevenson (talk) 22:36, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Clarkson
Where did the last name Clarkson come from? --Jiang | Talk 07:52, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * She didn't like her monosyllabic surname, so she made up a new one. (Kidding) It's from her first marriage. I'll work that into the article. --Menchi (Talk)ü| â 07:55, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

--- Criticising her for not marrying Chinese husbands seems a bit bizarre. Also, considering it was almost unheard of for women to keep their maiden names when she was first married it would be a bit much to have expected her to keep hers.
 * From Maiden name "Legally and commonly, Chinese and Korean women do not, as a tradition, discard their maiden names after marriage." I can understand them being offended, as in their culture, a chinese taking on their husband's surname would have been "unheard of".

The point about her last name is irrelevent. When she married Stephen Clarkson 40 years or so ago it was almost unheard of for women to keep their maiden names. To use this as a criticism of her for ignoring her Chinese heritage is silly. Formeruser-83 02:21, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * The "maiden name" article is worded very badly. I shall edit it after this. I'm Chinese and what she did makes perfect sense. Since she married an English person, she just followed the English custom with her name. Her "English" surname wasn't even Chinese. Now in Chinese it would just sound weird to add an extra three sounds (Clarkson) to her name. Nothing to do with heritage, which in any case only applies to the Chinese name written in Chinese. 219.77.98.28 13:49, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

As for why she kept the name - she became a TV star in Canada in the 1960s while she was married to Clarkson. Becoming famous as "Adrienne Clarkson" it would have been unreasonable to expect her to change her name upon becoming divorced. Note she has not changed her name to Adrienne Saul since marrying John Ralston Saul.

Vancouver Protest
Is last month's protest really noteworthy enough to merit inclusion in an article about her. As it's listed, it seems to be dissatisfaction about her actions on a relatively unimportant trip. Rather trivial for an article about her, and probably wouldn't be noticed, I daresay, if it wasn't a current event at the time of insertion. Shouldn't this be removed? Cafemusique 22:15, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree. This incident will probably be long forgotten a month from now, and is likely too trivial to be included in an overview of her life and career, like this encyclopedia article.--Indefatigable 23:13, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

An article that dwells on the negatives
Although the article tries to represent various points of view, overall the article is negative, constantly citing "some monarchists". First of all, monarchists as a group are a minority; vocal monarchists are smaller again. Monarchists who spend most of their time attacking the Queen's representative end up defeating their own cause by undermining support for a monarchy. Let's face it, the UK monarchy has been in retreat since Charles I was beheaded. That said, it would be nice to say something positive about Madame Clarkson. I am old enough to remember every Canadian Governor General since 1952. Although most were dignified and worthy of the office, some stood out as distinguished and inspirational - Georges Vanier was a magnificent figure and person who commanded respect. Clarkson is hardly in his saintly category, but she commands respect for her intellect and love of Canada. Read her speeches, they are very good. There has NEVER been a time in Canadian history when the OFFICE of GG has not been criticized as a waste of money, but then there are people who seem to think that any government activity of any sort is a waste of money. So what! government goes on and changes itself as required. So, couldn't one of you get rid of the picayune criticisms and focus on Clarkson's dignitas and gravitas. She will be leaving office soon. Let's hope her successor is as committed to the promotion of Canadian culture in Canada and abroad, and not a political hack.--BrentS 15:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I think BrentS has the right idea here, the article definitely has some NPOV problems. Currently almost half of the article is listing her bad press while in office. Though she's worthy of criticism, it should be toned-down. The article focuses too much on the public's opinion of what she did rather than what she did on its own. It might work better if the article first discusses what she did or did not accomplish as GG, then followed by the public criticism of her actions/inactions. --PullUpYourSocks 00:41, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think it should be noted that John Ralston Saul in his career has managed to piss off quit a number of prominant people, and that it is speculated that much of the critisisms against Clarkson, particularly in the first couple of years, were actually veiled attacks on him -- Dowew 21:16, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[citation needed - I know you believe this is true, but please cite sources Mardiste (talk) 23:17, 27 April 2010 (UTC)]

Religion?
What was her religion? seems she needs it for her infobox, as with the others. -- Earl Andrew - talk
 * Only if her religion has some significance. Double Blue  (Talk) 04:11, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Not sure about her religion. We might as well put it in. I´ve emailed the GG´s office and asked, but it will take a while to get a response Homagetocatalonia
 * Thanks very much Homagetocatalonia. It may not have any signifigance, but if all other GG's have their religion in their infobox, we might as well add hers. -- Earl Andrew - talk 17:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Her Excellency is an Anglican. Before her appointment she and John Ralston Saul were parishioners of St. Mary Magdalene, Toronto. Carruthers 17:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I remember a while ago there was some controversy when she was seen taking communion in a Roman Catholic Church. Dowew 04:10, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

term of office
Does the end date of this office coincide with the start date of when the successor is taking office? I believe that Clarkson is not GG anymore on this day. Can someone shed some light on this? Intangible 13:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Correct; effective this date (27 September 2005), Adrienne Clarkson was succeeded by Michaëlle Jean as Governor General. E Pluribus Anthony 17:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the question was whether Clarkson left office (a) at 23:59 September 26, (b) at the instant Jean was sworn in, or (c) sometime between these two points. I don't know the answer, but I suspect it's (b). Indefatigable 23:38, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


 * That would depend on the thingy the Queen signed that says she's the GG. I would think it's midnight, in many places monarch's even if not crowned, are assumed to be Queen or King until they are crowned if there is a death. --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] Spinboy 23:49, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I think Adrienne Clarkson ceased to be Governor General the moment Michaelle Jean was sworn in. Yes, The Queen has issued a new commission appointing Madame Jean as Governor General, but note that there was a Deputy Governor General who presided over the ceremony.  Now, note the title, "Deputy Governor General" is the shortened version of "the Honourable the Deputy to the Governor General".  Now since Michaelle Jean was not Governor General until she was sworn in, who exactly was the Deputy to?  Thus, it makes sense that Adrienne Clarkson was Governor General until the moment Michaelle Jean became Governor General.  If she wasn't, then the Deputy should not have been 'Deputy Governor General' and instead should have been 'Administrator'. Eddo


 * At a press conference after her "swearing out" (for lack of a better word) on The 26th of Sept Clarkson said that she had "great respect for this office, which I happen to inhabit, until tomorrow". I would think that means that althought she was "sworn out" she was still the GG until Jean was sworn in.  After all, Canada needed a head of state - what would happen if war broke out and someone had to sign important legislation in that 24 hour period ?  Dowew 16:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * As indicated above, Clarkson's term is clear; it is also apparently continuous with Jean's (swearing in ceremony). I presume if there was something truly imminent, it would be dealt with appropriately (by and whomever was the current GG at the time of the emergency). E Pluribus Anthony 17:11, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I just watched the swearing in ceremony online and from the sounds of it I think the Chief Justice of Canada was the acting GG during the interum period. Dowew 19:16, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

A Governor General serves "during pleasure"--that is to say until her appointment is revoked by Order-in-Council, or another person is installed. A Governor-General officially takes office on proclamation of her assumption of the Administration of the Government of Canada in the Canada Gazette, which generally occurs immediately following the installation ceremony in the Senate chamber.--198.103.254.251 23:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Order of Canada
Is it safe to say that Clarkson was the first GG to have the Order of Canada prior to becoming the GG ? Dowew 23:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

links for future use
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050923/clarkson_memoir_050923?s_name=&no_ads=
 * installation of Clarkson - comments about her quicky marraige
 * info about her books
 * Toronto Star article from 1999 about her appointment
 * - Clarkson is an honorary patron of the Royal Canadian Institute
 * Clarkson says her first memory is of hiding in her Hong Kong basement during the invasion
 * Clarkson talks about her family and her move to Canada
 * http://www.monarchist.ca/cmn/installed.htm
 * Clarkson announced the Order of Merit of the Police Forces
 * Speech during the first presentation of the Order of Merit of Police Forces
 * Agent General post was left vacant for 2 years after clarkson left
 * page about cbc programs
 * honoary patron of collection Canada - has the iamge that was deleted
 * Anglican Journal

Fifth Estate Screencaps
These are some screencaps of Clarkson hosting The Fifth Estate I took with my digital camera Dowew 03:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Image:Clarksoncap1.JPG| Image:Clarksoncap2.JPG| Image:Clarksoncap3.JPG| Image:Clarksoncap4.JPG| Image:Clarksoncap5.JPG| Image:Clarksoncap6.JPG| Image:Clarksoncap7.JPG| Image:Clarksoncap8.JPG|


 * I'm sorry but these screen caps make her look like a demonic cult leader or something. Is there any screencap with her interviewing someone? --Kvasir 08:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

photo gallery
I am moving the photo gallery in here for a while so that the main page is now slowed down and so that it doesn't violate wikipedia's policy about fair use photos

Image:PaulAnkaOrderofCanada.jpg|Presenting the Order of Canada Image:Denys ArcandtheorderofCanada2005crowncopyright.jpg|Presenting the Order of Canada Image:ClarksonandQueen2005.jpg|Clarkson & The Queen Image:ClarksonSaulRemembranceCC.jpg|Clarkson & Saul attend remembrance day ceremonies Image:ClarksonRemCC.jpg Image:ClarksonHutterites.jpg

I removed three images as they were only available for non-commercial use, according to.  howch e  ng   {chat} 18:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Autobiography
I had previous put that Clarkson will be the first GG to write an autobiography. It actually looks like Dowew 00:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Second thought the title What's past is prologue : the memoirs of the Right Honourable Vincent Massey, C.H. tends to suggest that its an autobiography
 * Frederick Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood, 1st Marquess of Dufferin and Ava wrote a book called Letters from High Latitutes but this apears to have been a book about his travels in Iceland rather than his time in Rideau Hall. Dowew 02:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * John Buchan, 1st Baron Tweedsmuir, who was also the writer of The 39 steps wrote his 1940 autobiography Memory hold the door]] while in Rideau Hall Dowew 03:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Military
Is there a reason why this article and Michaëlle Jean are in Category:Military of Canada? Ziggurat 00:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the Governor-general is Commander in chief of Canada's military in much the same way that the U.S president is Commander in chief of the U.S. military -Dhodges 00:18, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Tree planting cancelled?
Where did that information come from? The link for the reference goes to gg.ca, and it indicates on that site that the planting did happen. I'm also pretty sure it happened, since I've seen the tree. Anyone who visits the gardens at Rideau Hall can have the tree pointed out to them. True, there is not yet a plaque up for the tree, but there are other dedicated trees at Rideau Hall without plaques as well (such as Hu Jintao).

Toi-San /Tai-Shan /Hoi-San
Does anyone know if Clarkson knows Hoi-San (Hoi-San) /Toi-San (Cantonese) /Tai-Shan (Mandarin) dialect of Chinese? 132.205.44.134 01:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Request Clarification
"Clarkson's paternal grandfather. . .migrated to Australia and opened a general store in Chiltern, Victoria . . . His eldest son William was later sent back to Taishan and made his way to Hong Kong. There he married and worked with his father for the Canadian government." How could the son have worked with his father while in Hong Kong when his father was running a store in Australia? I didn't remove this as it is likely that the actual facts have simply been obscured by a grammatical error.JeanKorte 17:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You are right, the facts might have been confounded over several edits by different people. The following simplified chinese sources all basically say the same thing regarding the circumstances under which the Poys immigrated to Canada. There was no mention of grandfather being in Hong Kong prior or during the War.

Sources:   


 * The situation was that, according to the above sources, Adrienne's father was a staff of "加拿大商务局" (need the correct translation) and the family was able to repatriate with the other Canadian civil servants. Even then the family encountered difficulty to enter during to the Chinese Exclusion Act enforced at the time. The Department was eventually able to use the remaining quota in the prisoners of war exchange program to get the Poy family into Canada.


 * This source says Adrienne's father was working with the grandfather for the Canadian government. See above section for the discussion about the origin of the surname Poy. --Kvasir 08:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Born Hong Kong flag
Am I right in thinking that the new Hong Kong flag is the wrong flag to use? Biofoundationsoflanguage 09:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've changed it to the 1910-1959 Hong Kong flag. Biofoundationsoflanguage 17:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

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Titles
I removed mention of Clarkson's membership from her full title; I'm not sure that membership in the Privy Council is mentioned in one's title, nor, if it is, what the correct format is. I'd prefer to see a source or example of some kind, as the result may affect all articles on former Canadian governors general. --Miesianiacal (talk) 21:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Her Canadian Forces Decoration
I am wondering whom placed the insignia of the Canadian Forces Decoration for Madame Clarkson's page. The reason being that, a) after 22 years of service within the Canadian Forces does a person receive the first bar, and b) the representation of the bars of the C.D. are rossettes, not a crowned shield of the Coat of Arms.

Lastly, Madame Clarkson received her C.D. as Governor General, in 1999. She would have to wait 22 years to get the first bar, I would assume, and therefore, should not receive it until 2021, and that is, if Madame Clarkson continues to have an honorary rank of the Canadian Forces. Ctjj.stevenson (talk) 22:34, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I have corrected the rosettes, however, once again, seeing when Madame Clarkson received her Canadian Forces Decoration, she would not be elegible for the rosette until 2021. Ctjj.stevenson (talk) 20:24, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem to be right about the rosette. As for whether or not she would wear one however, Clarkson was awarded the CD upon her installation as governor general, not after 12 years service in the forces; it would seem then that she would've been granted the clasp in 2009. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  23:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Infobox
The infobox has stood as it is for some time. What is the purpose in changing it, keeping in mind that whatever alterations happen here will have to happen on 19 other articles? -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  00:06, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The mass of academic post-nomials have been in the article for quite some time but, as I referenced, Manual of Style (biographies) specifically states "Post-nominal letters, 'other than those denoting academic degrees, should be included". This very clearly shows that these fourteen shouldn't be included. A list near the bottom of the page with the Governors General awards and honours would be a much more appropriate place for degrees. Their inclusion may be longstanding, but just because nobody really challenged is when you unilaterally added them in does not give it automatic consensus.


 * I'm also downright confused as to why the prefix and suffixes aren't even linked. Why include them and not link them? Why have their colour changed to grey at all? Again, this was done unilaterally by you between 27 February 2009 and 23 March 2009 when nobody else edited the article.


 * The crest is something else that has no reason for staying in the infobox. Again added by you during the period of time when you were the sole editor. Initially a maple leaf before you decide a few weeks later to change it to the Governors General crest, then moved it from above the prefix to above the office title. I also placed in a hidden note that Manual of Style (icons), which states:

"Icons should not be added only because they look good, because aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder: one reader's harmless decoration may be another reader's distraction. Icons may be purely decorative in the technical sense that they convey no additional useful information and nothing happens when you click on them; but purely decorative icons should still have a useful purpose in providing navigational or layout cues outside of article prose. Avoid adding icons that provide neither additional useful information relevant to the article subject nor navigational or layout cues that aid the reader. Icons should serve an encyclopaedic purpose other than decoration."


 * Just because this is something followed on the pages of Canadian Governors General simply cannot stand up as an argument to keep what boils down to clutter when the convention to include them is isolated solely to these 27 people.


 * In light of all this, I see absolutely no reason to include academic post-nominals and the crest of the Governor General of Canada or to remove the links and change the colour of honorific prefixes/suffixes. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The guideline states academic post-nominals should be "omitted from the lead" [emphasis mine]; the infobox is not the lead. The governor general's crest imparts information, especially on pages where an individual was governor general of more than one country. The honorific prefixes and suffixes are already linked in the article; linking them again in the infobox is entirely possible.
 * Everything else just amounts to an "I don't like it" argument. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  01:19, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late response! Right now, I feel as if neither one of us is going to be able to change the other's opinion and that we've both made our cases as best we can already. Therefore, I'm preparing an RfC to see if outside opinion will help solve the issue. Therequiembellishere (talk) 10:55, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Adrienne Clarkson
Miesianiacal and I have both laid our opinions on the current format for Canadian Governors-General and I feel that outside opinion would be helpful. Therequiembellishere (talk) 10:55, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The current list of post-nominal letters in the infobox seems excessive to me. The infobox is meant to give quick-to-find, easy-to-digest access to the most important information about the person in summary form. In my opinion a comprehensive list of honourary post-nominals does not belong in an infobox, particularly when it is so long. There is no requirement that information in an infobox be comprehensive. The difficulty in visually parsing the list of post-nominals and its detrimental effect on the overall appearance of the infobox outweighs any possible worth in having this list here in my opinion. I suggest that the MoS guidance for the lead - excluding academic degrees from the list - would be the appropriate approach here too. Thparkth (talk) 16:56, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * What about the icon? In my opinion, it serves no further encyclopedic purpose other than decoration, which would fail this. Therequiembellishere (talk) 20:08, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late reply. In my opinion, the icon is too small to usefully represent such a complex image. Thparkth (talk) 18:24, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, how would one go about discussing removing degrees from infoboxes overall? Therequiembellishere (talk) 20:10, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I can admit that the academic post-nominals are a little much; especially for more recent governors general, who've served in this era of honorary degrees being handed out like flyers. But, I don't want to see them simply deleted. Where, then, can they go? The titles section shows full honours, not post-nominals; the honours section shows post-nominals, but in order of awarding, not according to the Oxford notes on style.
 * As for the icon: Again, it's a visual marker of the office of governor general; that's exactly what it was invented for. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  04:41, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The post-nominals can go in a list of honours in the article, there isn't any real need for them to be in Oxford style.
 * And the "visual marker" still does nothing. We know the subject is the Governor General because the infobox says they are so right there; the icon is overkill. That's why WP:FLAGS says that we don't put a country's flag next to their birth place in the infobox -- we've already stated "Canada" so why add the Canadian flag in? The same rule applies for the icon. Put it in Governor General of Canada, sure, but it has no place in the individuals' articles. Therequiembellishere (talk) 08:32, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree on both counts. Having the post-nominals listed in proper order is a service to readers; that's precisely why I went to the trouble of finding out the right way to organise them and then arranging them in that fashion. I've already stated my reasoning for the icon; but I will add that Canada is not the main subject of this article (on Canada there is a flag in the infobox), Adrienne Clarkson is - warranting an image that identifies her - and her most important position she held was governor general. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  13:56, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Looking at a number of other biographies, (Stephen Harper, Conrad Black, Barack Obama), I do not see any academic degrees at all and see no reason to include them here. TFD (talk) 16:58, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Putting aside the fact that we don't have to do anywhere what's done on other articles, are you proposing all the academic degrees be simply deleted? The post-nominals from the infobox and the list of degrees from the honours section? -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  17:02, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no point in listing honorary degrees that would never be used in writing to Clarkson, except by the institutions involved. Also, can you provide a source that the Queen of Canada appoints the governor-general and we should avoid using the term "Queen Elizabeth" since articles should avoid using titles except in that person's article.  TFD (talk) 17:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That didn't answer my question. Are you proposing that the academic post-nominals in the infobox and the list of degrees in the honours section be deleted? Or is it just what's shown in the infobox? -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  17:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Just in the infobox. That she was awarded the degrees should be in the honors section.  TFD (talk) 19:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

{o/d} Ah, I see. Well, as I already said, I'm okay with that so long as the degrees are given somewhere in the article in their proper order. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  19:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I've moved them. Is this acceptable? -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  03:17, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Travel Expense Controversy
There should be a section dedicated to her travel expense scandal.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/topstories/20040819/clarkson_travel_040819/

This came up in the news many times, especially her 40 person arctic farewell junket — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.99.199.44 (talk) 20:49, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The subject of the state visits to arctic nations undertaken by Clarkson at the direction of the prime minister and DFAIT two years before she left office is already covered in the article. It does not need its own section. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  00:08, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Canadian encyclopedia
The Canadian Encyclopedia has been changing its links. I fixed one, but there are several article about this subject, and I'm not sure which one was meant as the reference. Maybe someone who has been working on this article will check them over. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 20:09, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

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