Talk:Age of consent/Archive 1

Misc talk
Concerning age of consent in VA. What about this.

I added what I like the call the "passive age of consent" versus the "active age of consent" definition. I also outlined the idea that there are differences between a violation of the AOC, statutory rape, and a differently set AOC for positions of authority. This information was also added to the statutory rape article. Frankly, I'm overwhelmed with the complexity of discussing this topic effectively--I edited the article because I believed that its lack of detail caused it to be misleading about the various levels of improper sexual conduct with a minor laws (and its the detail on which people are most often confused.) At this point, I still feel it's lacking a section on child porn (the dichotomy that intercourse may be legal in a particular situation, but the archiving of that scenario on video would be illegal. I believe there's also some potential for using the nifty graphs from the Hawaii AOC task force report (which I linked at the bottom) to show the age differentiation statutes in some states (and also offer something about unique situations that could arise--a sexual relationship that's legal today may be illegal tomorrow, legal again in a year or two, illegal again, and then finally legal permanently.) Ideally there would also be some discussion on how often AOC charges actually reach the legal system and are successfully prosecuted (in the great scheme of things, many relationships are illegal but are not prosecuted because they are not self-reporting.) Does anyone have anything regarind AOC history? That section would be invaluable if properly fleshed out.Jimbobjoe 08:38, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

The relevant U.S. federal law is 18 USC 2423 (b) which mentions the age of 18 but also requires that 18 USC Chapter 109A be violated. The only relevant prohibition of consentual sex with minors in that chapter is 18 USC 2243(a) which gives 16 as the age of consent and also mentions the 4-year minimum age difference. --AxelBoldt -

Can anyone confirm the whole "18 for anal sex, sex with an authority figure, prostitution or appearing in pornography." in Canada? I've never heard of this.


 * Check the Criminal Code of Canada. For my part, I'm interested in the (18 for anal sex in all provinces except Quebec) bit. I wasn't aware Quebec got to make its own criminal law. I assume this is some sort of case law that I'd appreciate hearing more about. - Montr&eacute;alais 01:25, 11 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I believe it is Section 159 of the Criminal Code of Canada that states 18 for anal intercourse. - CKSCIII 17:11, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Mentioning Australia, article says:
 * most with an exception for partners within two years of age of each other

Maybe most do, but the most populous one, New South Wales (where I live), it doesn't. Nor do I think Commonwealth "child sex tourism" law (i.e. age of consent law based on nationality jurisdiction) does. (IIRC, Australia doesn't have federal laws in this area, like the U.S. does, because all Australian territories are legally assimilated to the ACT, which is self-governing and hence makes its own laws.) OTOH, the Model Criminal Code Law Officers Committee has proposed one for the whole of Australia, but judging by the public reaction to it in the past, I have strong doubts that its proposals on reform of the criminal law relating to sexual offences will every be implemented. -- SJK


 * Victoria does. I think the Australian state laws are sufficiently different to make any comment other than "laws vary somewhat from state to state, usually around 16 with some exceptions" useless.  --Robert Merkel

except that, IIRC, in at least two states (Queensland and some other one), the age of consent is higher: 17 or 18. Maybe we should just provide state by state info? (I'm sure the Americans will do so for each U.S. state, if they haven't done already...) -- SJK


 * Let's do so, then. Maybe this calls for a subpage. --Robert Merkel

I corrected Canada's age of consent law. Age of consent is the same for heterosexual and homosexual acts: 14 for everything except anal sex, appearing in porn, or sex with an authority figure, for which the age is 18. - montréalais

Surely the UK's 18 for homosexuals, or did it get changed? Bagpuss

The age for the U.K. got changed to 16 under pressure from the EU, because the European Union's resolutions forbid discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Having an age of consent of 16 for heterosexuals and 18 for homosexuals was considered illegally discriminatory, and the U.K. finally caved into the pressure.

The Texas anti-sodomy law got overturned, so homosexual sex is no longer illegal.

This page says 16 for the Netherlands, but one of the pages linked to quotes it as 12/16 and gives a confusing description. Does anyone know for definite? Amoss 02:23, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Our article is up-to-date for the Netherlands, 12/16 is old.--Patrick 19:15, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

What's going on with New Mexico? 13 homosexual, 17 heterosexual? Those figures sound wrong to me. Lovely Chris
 * I'm fairly certain that they are wrong. See:  http://www.ageofconsent.com/newmexico.htm  It makes no mention of any exception for homosexuality.  I've corrected this typo.  ThePedanticPrick 22:02, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Japan: 13 nationwide, 16 to 18 in most prefectures (however, age of marriage for a female with parental approval is 16)

What's the source for the latter ?

The age of consent for Lesbians in Hungary is listed as '0' - shouldn't it rather be 'unknown'?


 * Lesbian sex is not considered sex by the law in Hungary. (Because it not penetrative perhaps? But it can be so I don't know...)

Age of consent for circumcision
I cut this section from the article:


 * Although children under the age of consent may not legally engage in intercourse or other genital acts, they may be subjected to circumcision. In the United States, the majority of males are circumcised.  This is identifiable by a scar encircling the shaft of the penis.  This procedure can be electively chosen by adults, but among males the parents usually provide consent.  In the U.S., advocates of circumcision believe males do not have a right to refuse circumcision until they have reached the age of 18 years.


 * Clean your room or I'll have you circumcised. - Mom

This doesn't seem to belong in an the article on age of consent to sex; perhaps it belongs in another article on consent to surgical procedure, or maybe in the circumcision article. Or perhaps not. Gdr 10:21, 2004 Oct 15 (UTC)

Lack of bias disputed...
(Areas of question enclosed in /slashes/.)

"(One such call for lowering the age of consent is from Mormon apologists, who often /seem to argue that 14 year-old girls should be fair game for men who claim to be prophets of God/. It /seems unlikely that they actually believe this/, but /they seem to feel forced to make the argument anyway to justify the behaviour of their revered founder/, Joseph Smith.)"

Although I'm not a Mormon myself, I take it that the author is biased against the beliefs of Mormons. His beliefs are his own, but Wikipedia should only publish facts. Thus.

Australia
sorry for that edit/unedit. there seems to be a wealth of conflicting information on the age of consent in my home state of western australia since there are campaigns dated last year calling for it to be lowered (in the case of homosexual males) from 21 to 16, but there are also current articles about political lobbies fro increasing said age of consent from 16 to 18. A friend of mine implied that i should change it to 21 in light of a certain article, but in my quest to find a reputable reference i encountered directly conflicting information, so i just gave up and changed it back.

if anyone with a background in law or just the resources to definitively answer this dilemma can take this issue on, that would probably be a good idea. NanotechStudent 08:03, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

-

I am about 99% Sure that the Gallop Government Reformed Homosexual Laws in 2003. There was heavy media press over the issue as the conservitive liberals had backed the 21 limit, and I believe still do. In the brocheres and leaflets handed out at high schools, the Dept of Health in WA Lists as 16 for both Heterosexual and Homosexual. I have posted this on another article on wikipedia due to the fact ageofconsent.com has very out of date info regarding Australia (circa 1996 for WA)

--Boochan 13:11, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

-

I've removed a link to moraloutrage.net as that site does not contain any information regarding Australian Law. I've also cleaned up the same paragraph so that it reads better, points out the current problems with information on ageofconsent.com and indicates that the link to www.gaylawnet.com is focused on same sex. Also I've just noticed that the link is .com not .org - now corrected.

Also looking over the information in Australia I'm thinking some of it looks bad. After I conduct some research into the Crime Acts of all states and territories I'll compare the facts and possibly alter some. Monotonehell 16:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm back so beware! After reading the law of each state and territory I've edited the whole Australia section to better reflect the actual LAW and not the opinions of well meaning web sites. I've also included links to the actual law. Again reasoning that citing proper authorities is better than citing websites that may or may not have activist backgrounds.

The wiki-code doesn't allow the dot point formatting over more than one line that would properly follow the style of the rest of the page so I've had to separate things a little under two new headings in the contents. Hope that doesn't upset anyone. Monotonehell 13:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Not relevant???
How can u say that the info that homosexual sex is grounds for dismissal is not relevant to the article?, it is basically saying that in US military there is no age of conssent when it is sex between people of the same sex, how is that not relevant? Cjrs 79 16:25, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

Age of consent not changed in Denmark
It is a misunderstanding that the age of consent has been changed in Denmark. This article from the Danish criminal code (straffeloven) is still in effect: § 222. Den, som har samleje med et barn under 15 år, straffes med fængsel indtil 8 år. He who has sexual intercourse with a child under the age of 15 is punished with a prison sentence lasting a maximum of 8 years

Preisler 20:07, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Here is a link to the criminal code currently in effect. It's a webpage run by the Danish government and it is correct! It's article (§) 222. Straffeloven på retsinfo Preisler 13:20, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, I will remember not to trust DR.dk about the law next time then. They had posted an article about it being raised for sex and drinking.

Sorry about the disagreement.
 * Yeah it's a pretty widespread misunderstanding.. Apparently amongst journalists too.. No problem whatsoever and sorry if I got a little annoyed :) Preisler 20:41, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Ireland
The ages seem totally totally wrong for Ireland. Going to have to check this one up... --Kiand 21:35, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * http://www.gov.ie/debates-02/24april/sect9.htm gives "15 for boys, 17 for girls, 17 for homosexual". Oral sex isn't mentioned seperately. --Kiand 21:47, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * and http://www.gov.ie/debates-98/3feb98/sect6.htm gives it as "15 for 'lesser sexual activities', 17 for intercourse"; which is likely where the oral reference came from. --Kiand 21:50, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * And the "NON-FATAL OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON ACT, 1997" defines it as sixteen. ffs, this seems to be one for the lawyers. --Kiand 21:52, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Czech republic
I believe that the age of consent in Czech republic is 14 (although people receive their id card when they turn 15). Could someone verify this? I'm not so sure.

Japan
"Japan: 13 nationwide*, 16 to 18 in most prefectures; however, age of marriage for a female with parental approval is 16."

This asterisk has no corresponding footnote.

It was just increased to 16 nationwide, with many prefectures increasing their laws to 18.

Age of Consent is STILL 13 nationwide in Japan, not 16. It has NOT been increased. No prefecture has increased it to 18; that conclusion is a misunderstanding of the laws. They're very specific it's 18 in Tokyo for prostitution and similar (such as "compensated dating"). Only SOME prefectures, (7 only so far) have similar laws to Tokyo's in regards to the "compensated dating". Not the majority. This is my source for the National and Tokyo laws regading Age of Consent - http://www.ageofconsent.com/japan.htm - but you have to read through it very carefully. There are a lot of exceptions.

Mexico / corruption of minors
The entry on Mexico reads: "12, but 18 under some circumstances". The latter part probably refers, among others, to art. 201 of the Mexican penal code, which starts:

"Comete el delito de corrupción de menores, el que induzca, procure, facilite u obligue a un menor de dieciocho años de edad o a quien no tenga capacidad para comprender el significado del hecho, a realizar actos de exhibicionismo corporal, lascivos o sexuales, prostitución, ebriedad, consumo de narcóticos, prácticas sexuales o a cometer hechos delictuosos. "

Roughly translated:

"The crime of corruption of minors commits he who induces, procures, facilitates or forces a minor of eighteen years of age or one who does not have the capacity to understand the meaning of the act, to perform acts of corporal exhibitionism, lewd or sexual acts, prostitution, drunkenness, drug use, sexual acts or to commit criminal facts."

That appears to be extremely broad -- in fact it is hard to see how you can have sex with somebody without "inducing him/her to perform sexual acts". So does anybody know what this article does actually mean or how it is interpreted by the courts?

Boblewis

Netherlands
From the "Social and legal attitudes" section:
 * If a foreigner has had sex with someone under the age of 16 or a prostitute below 18—even if this was legal—and if this was done at a time that it was already illegal in the Netherlands, he or she becomes a criminal when immigrating to the Netherlands.

Does that really mean that if, say, two 15-year-old Italians have sex with each other (entirely legally) in Italy, both those people would be considered criminals if they moved to the Netherlands? And if so, how is that justified by the Dutch government? It seems entirely unjust to me. Loganberry (Talk) 23:54, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

History
What about the history of age of consent? I remember reading somewhere that London changed it's age of consent for prostitutes from 8 to 13 in the 1800's and this was considered a great social advance at the time.--Gbleem 15:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Descrimination
What about uneven enforcement of the law based on gender, sexual orientation and race. --Gbleem 15:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Lithuania?
Anyone can clarify the entry for Lithuania? It states that 14 is now legal for homosexual males but what about the rest? Is it 14 as well? If so, there is no need for adding the part about homosexual males. I could not find an answer, anyone who knows that, please look into it. --SoWhy 13:03, 22 December 2005 (UTC)