Talk:Albert Collins

Biography assessment rating comment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article.-- Jreferee 00:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Pizza commentary
(moved from article mainspace -- 健次 (derumi)talk 06:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC))

(NOTE: I was in the audience at THAT Antone's show. In true character, Albert shared the pizza with the crew of Antones and the audience. A very nice man and a real class act. I particularly remember his rendition of "Snowed In" and the PERFECT way he created the unique sounds of the car engine turning over and the car honks on his guitar. He is sorely missed by all who knew him.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:216.167.156.251 (talk • contribs) 2007-06-29T06:05:47 (UTC)

Opening rewrite
I've rewritten the opening. Collins was very much a guitarist's guitarist. Primarily he focused on playing rather than singing so he was never going have his moment in the pop charts which are primarily orientated to vocal performances - so I tightened the opening to reflect his standing amongst players both professional and amateur.

If you prefer the earlier opening then just revert my edits. Cheers.

Sluffs (talk) 23:50, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Placeholder for removed material and Edit Ideas
I've removed:

He regularly named John Lee Hooker and organist Jimmy McGriff, along with Hopkins, Guitar Slim and Clarence “Gatemouth” Brown as major influences on his playing.

It was in the Early Life section which is not the best place for it. Will add it back in at a later date. The chronology of this article needs work as well. Please note that the chronology below may not be correct at the moment while I sort out the dates hence the question marks.

Sluffs (talk) 18:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Chronology

1932 - Born

? - Was Frankie Lee Sims cousin to Hopkins and did he teach Collins? I found this excellent site that has details on Sims. Just placing it here for the moment due to the fact that I want to get the early life details sorted first.

1950 - Rhythm Rockers

? - in Blues Guitar says he drove a truck for approx 12 years while in the Rhythm Rockers - mentions Maddox Furniture. Did a Google search and they are still listed:

MADDOX FURNITURE MFG CO 121 N Post Oak Ln Houston, TX,77024 713‑688‑6227

Whether they are the still the same company he worked for or a new company is unknown at the moment.

1953 - in Blues Guitar mentions meeting BB King at 21. Says he was playing the Jockey Club, Houston which was opposite where some of King's relatives lived.

1955 - an article about Johnny Copeland stated "During the summer of 1955, he replaced Albert Collins in Clarence Samuels' band". I couldn't find any other refs to substantiate the claim. So didn't add into the article.

1958 Collins mentions in Guitar Blues that he went out on the road with Piney Brown at around 26. That would make it 1958. He cut his first Kangaroo record in Spring 1958 so it was probably before spring and Collins doesn't sound too sure in the interview of his age at the time so may have been 25. There are some online posts by musicians who played at Gilly's (a club in Dayton, Ohio) who mention Collins with Brown and also that when Collins went solo he would often use Piney Brown as his opening act when playing at Gillys. A guy called Tony Houston says:

"I played in the Piney Brown’s band in Dayton back in the early ’80s. What’s not listed is that Piney was Albert Collins mentor. Albert played with Piney in the late ’50s. Albert got his idea for having a ‘big band’ from Piney. Every time Albert played Gilly’s in Dayton, Piney always opened. It was during one of these shows where I met Albert, and Albert asked me to join ‘The Icebreakers’. But I was a single parent, and my kids needed me more."

? Another recording studio of importance to Collins (though much later I think) is in Beaumont, Texas: Gulf Coast Studio owned by Bill Hall - also where Janis Joplin hung out which Collins mentions in Blues Guitar.

1978 - Barellhouse are Hollands biggest blues band. Collins was filmed in concert with them for Dutch television program TROS Sesjun dated 17 February 1978. The intro gives June 1978 so that may be the broadcast date.

1983 - Paleo Festival, Switzerland 1983 Official Site.

1986 - Collins an Koko Taylor are booked to play Gilly's in Dayton, Ohio for the 4th and 5th April 1986. Here's a link to a Living Blues newsletter (possible ref):

Living Blues Newsletter 1986 at Snapper Mitchum site

1988 - Collins appears as a guest of SRV for the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival (1988). The performance, which includes B.B. King and Katie Webster, is filmed for inclusion in the Showtime special "Coast To Coast". (? need to check the Showtime Special details).

1988 - Debbie Davies joins The Icebreakers on guitar - looking at the amount of guitarists that Albert Collins has played with and the changing nature of his backing band The Icebreakers - I think a section called "The Icebreakers" (or maybe another title) may need to be created. For fans of Collins there's some nice photos of him with Davies in her interview (see link at start).

1993 - Blog with flyer for the Pointblank Borderline Blues Festival. This was the only site I found detailing the dates and acts. I did find another site but it was lacking details of any sort other than the dates. I've placed it here for confirmation purposes only and may remove this and other links when the article is finished. If I find a ref for the festival that is as detailed as this flyer then I'll add that into the article.

Equipment and Playing Style

Removed

He later chose a "maple-cap" 1966 Custom Fender Telecaster with a Gibson PAF humbucker in the neck position and a 100 watt RMS silverfaced 1970s Fender Quad Reverb combo as his main equipment, and developed a unique sound featuring minor tunings, sustained notes and an "attack" fingerstyle. He also frequently used a capo on his guitar, particularly on the 5th, 7th, and 9th frets. He primarily favored an "open F-minor" tuning (low to high: F-C-F-Ab-C-F). In the booklet from the CD Ice Pickin, it was stated that Albert tuned to a "D minor D-A-D-F-A-D" Tuning. He played without a pick, using his thumb and first finger. Collins credited his unusual tuning to his cousin, Willow Young, who taught it to him. By the late 1950s Collins began using Fender Telecasters.

End

Disputed Dates

There are some date issues to do with vocalist Little Frankie Lee (born Frankie Lee Jones). In the Chicago Tribune interview (see ref section) he mentions meeting Collins in 1963 yet the The Chill is Gone article (see ref section) states that Collins first gig was at 16 supporting Little Frankie Lee (who they list as son to Frankie Lee Sims); the date would be 1948 using the birth date of Collins. What may have happened is that Frankie Lee Sims who taught Collins when he was a teenager may be the artist that Collins appeared on stage with at 16 but due to the long association commencing from 1963 with the similarly named Frankie Lee Jones (note Little Frankie Lee uses the word "met" in the interview which in no way confirms that he "joined" the group at that time though he confirms that he sang for 5 or 6 years with Collins' band - he also notes that it was exclusively Collins band and not his and that he relocated with Collins to California in the 70s) the source got the details wrong about which Frankie Lee it was. Frankie Lee Jones was born in 1941 and Frankie Lee Sims in 1917. Also note that as an extended family who congregated at reunions Collins most likely did receive some informal tuition from his second cousin Frankie Lee Sims. Another scenario may be that there was no professional gig at 16 but I find this unlikely when you have two established elder blues musicians in your family (Hopkins and Frankie Lee Sims) and they were all in Texas at the time (I presume) and family reunions are an established ritual amongst many extended families of all persuasions - so since it is highly unlikely that the 7 year old Frankie Lee Jones was onstage with Collins at his first pro gig at 16 then its more likely that Frankie Lee Sims had Collins up onstage with him in 1948 (Frankie Lee Sims would have been 31 if we accept his birth date as 1917 and had been teaching Collins informally from around his late-20s onwards if we accept the details given in some sources). One further option is that there is a son of Frankie Lee Sims that Collins did appear on stage with at 16 but his name is not Frankie Lee or if it is we are then dealing with three people with the first name Frankie Lee.

I'll add the Little Frankie Lee (surname Jones) interview as a ref for 1963 up to the California move and leave the first pro gig by Collins out for the moment. A question that needs to be addressed is whether there is any relationship of kinship between Frankie Lee Sims and Frankie Lee Jones. Will investigate and amend article when or if details are found.

Note Johnny Guitar Watson (cousin to Little Frankie Lee) grew up with Collins on the third ward Houston (please note as a UK resident I have no idea what the term "third ward" implies - we have council estates or suburbs in the UK so I imagine its one of those two but as to size, economics, how many schools, venues, transport structure, etc - so any readers out there from the third ward go ahead and flesh out some details in the article. eg. "Growing up Collins lived ? miles from Shady's Playhouse and would've passed the venue daily" or "Growing up Collins, Copeland and Johnny Guitar Watson lived within walking distance of each other and though attending different schools they would have all been aware of the blues jams at Shady's Playhouse" - that sort of thing.

Using Google Satellite maps and the address given for Collins residence (see ref Austin Chronicle) and the two addresses for Shady's Playhouse I discovered that he lived 0.3 miles from Shady's first venue and 0.8 miles from Shady's second venue. That is close - within walking distance.

Sluffs (talk) 12:16, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Removed sentence

I've removed the sentence below. I'll rewrite the sentence and reintegrate the details back into the article at a later date. I removed it because it was reading like an "aside" and was disrupting the chronology with its wide sweep.

"He was becoming a popular blues musician and was an influence for Coco Montoya, Gary Moore, Debbie Davies, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jonny Lang, Susan Tedeschi, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, John Mayer and Frank Zappa."

End

Sluffs (talk) 18:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Photo of Lawrence Wright

Found a photo of Lawrence Wright in a gallery with Albert Collins as the next photo. I'm placing a link here for other editors to visually see the images especially since I found searching for Wright's details was time consuming and this is the first photo of him that I've discovered so far. Interesting that Collins mentions playing in his trio but no recordings or gig reviews from that period in his career has been found yet or maybe there are none.

Photo of Lawrence Wright at Kansas City Musicians Local 627

Sluffs (talk) 18:49, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Earl Gilliam

Link to article about Gilliam - gigged with Albert Collins. when?

According to Houston Press it was five years in the 1950s that he was with Collins. Here's the link:

Houston Press article on Earl Gilliam

Sluffs (talk) 20:51, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Frankie Lee

There's two sources I've found for Frankie Lee. Lee's Blind Pig Record bio states that he left Houston with Collins in 1965 to go to Kansas:

In the other source he mentions meeting Collins in 1963. (already included in article)

One of the problems with integrating the details into the article is that they are not specific. There's no mention of any concerts or recordings in both sources. It seems to be an informal arrangement between two friends (Frankie Lee is also cousin to Johnny "Guitar" Watson). Frankie Lee also mentions that he moved to California with Collins and thereafter they seemed to have parted. I may remove the details to do with Frankie Lee completely since readers may wonder why he appears in the article as the vocalist of Collins group but there are no recordings or concerts mentioned.

Sluffs (talk) 18:58, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Removed

Little Frankie Lee (born Frankie Lee Jones) met Collins in 1963 and would go on to join the band as vocalist staying with the group for a number of years.

Removed the above sentence until further details come to light.

Sluffs (talk) 21:57, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Parker Music Store in Houston

The store seems to have been the main place where Collins purchased equipment early in his career. He mentions in the Blues Guitar interview purchasing his extended guitar cable from them in 1953 and also that he asked them to fit an authentic Tele neck on his Esquire and that this was the guitar that he cut The Freeze and Frosty on. I did a search just in case they had a local newspaper interview with the owners of the store but couldn't find anything. Music stores actually play a larger part in musician's careers than most people realize. In London there's Andy's Guitar Workshop where many famous rock guitarists would send their guitars for repairs and visit to purchase. I read somewhere that Kurt Cobain frequented a particular store because they never hassled him for PR work or autographs. For Classical guitarists in the UK we have the Spanish Guitar Center where I imagine many well-known classical guitarists shop (as I found out one day while humming along to a guitarist who was in there playing a piece by Granados - I was purchasing the Summerfield book on Classical Guitarists and the shop assistant casually mentioned that the guitarist who was playing was in the book - which proves the theory that I can be just as annoying in person as I am on Wikipedia). If I can I'll try and work into the article the details of the Parker Music store and Collins's purchases. Maybe he bought his Epiphone from them? The store is now defunct but I'm sure there are many people in Houston that could shine some light on its role locally - who knows Stevie Ray, Johnny Copeland, Johnny Watson may have all been customers.

Tony Houston Details
Tony Houston played with Piney Brown in the early 80s and mentions that Albert Collins used Piney Brown as his opening act when he played at Gilly's in Dayton, Ohio. One of the problems is that he mentions this in a comment reply in an article on the death of Piney Brown at that highly commercially driven site About dot com. I'm loathed to even mention that site (I feel the same way about the very useless non-scholarly All Music Site) so I did a quick search to see if I could find a more reliable source and found this article at Fender by Tony Houston (three cheers for Fender):

Fender Concert Series - Tony Houston

However there is no mention of Albert Collins more about SRV but nevertheless it gives credence and weight to the comment posted by Houston at the About dot com site. I see no reason to dispute what Tony Houston says in his comment though I wish someone out there would interview him about Piney Brown - I don't even think there's an article on Piney Brown here.

Sluffs (talk) 13:56, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Did another quick search and found the same comment in a Fender Forum:

Tony Houston forum posting at Fender

Sluffs (talk) 14:04, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Tony Houston here: I don't have too much to add regarding Piney Brown. I was in his band for about a year '81 - '82, and he didn't like paying his musicians. But, getting back to Albert Collins, he was always glad to see Brown. Albert liked me because I had a 'funky' right-hand as far as playing rhythm guitar, plus I was a lead player as well. Even when Albert came back to Gilly's in '86, he still wanted me. I was a single parent and couldn't leave my kids. By that time I was playing with Snapper Mitchum (Son Seals). Wahouston01 (talk) 14:34, 23 April 2015 (UTC)Tony Houston

Removed Material - Frankie Lee Sims
I've removed this material because it is supported by only one ref and is not conclusive even with the ref. The problem lies in the fact that Collins was related to Frankie Lee Sims (Johnny Guitar Watson was Sims nephew and Lightnin Hopkins was Sims cousin) but I have found nothing by Collins to suggest he received lessons from Sim. The family reunions may have drawn all of them together but surely then Collins would have mentioned that Sims attended. So I'm going to place the material here including the refs since I very much doubt that any further information will come to light. Unlike printed encyclopedias where errors cannot be changed until the next edition there's no need for that here and in essence Wikipedia articles with careful research and evaluation can avoid transferring any doubtful claims into the future.

He also received some tutoring from his second cousin Frankie Lee Sims; a Specialty Records' artist who recorded prolifically during the 1950s achieving his biggest commercial success in 1953 with the song "Lucy Mae Blues".

Sluffs (talk) 21:16, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Best Traditional Blue Recording - Grammy Awards 1987 or 1988?
I'm having difficulty determining the year that Cold Snap was a nominee.

I've put 1987 for Cold Snap for the moment until I find a site with the correct year. The official Grammy site strangely enough doesn't list nominees only winners and is designed in such a way that it can't be used as a reference. It may actually be 1988 for Cold Snap since the album was finished in October 1986 and would've had to have been on the record shop shelves for sale for a certain period before receiving a nomination - so if the 29th Grammy nominees for 1987 were announced in February (my conjecture) then Cold Snap may not be included.

Will update when reliable source becomes available.

Sluffs (talk) 19:06, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

The year Cold snap was nominated the winner was the Professor Longhair album Houseparty New Orleans Style. The official Grammy site lists that album as winning in 1987. So the information as given in the article is correct except for the actual Award which probably is the 30th Grammy.

The Grammy winners are announced in February for the previous year. So at the 1998 Grammy in February they would have announced the winners for 1987.

Sluffs (talk) 15:12, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Removed material with no refs
I've removed this sentence from the Legacy section:

Collins has influenced many artists and collaborated with Ronnie Wood, Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, Johnny Nitro, Jeff Beck, Gary Moore and Larry Carlton.

This has no refs so I'll investigate and if the details are highly relevant then will add the names back into the main body of the article. Note that the Johnny Nitro link goes to a Wikipedia article on a wrestler so maybe disambiguation needed or erroneous.

Sluffs (talk) 21:08, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Early Life
This section includes the unreferenced sentence: "At the age of twelve, he decided to concentrate on learning the guitar after hearing "Boogie Chillen'" by John Lee Hooker."

This seems most unlikely to be completely true - Collins was born in 1932 and Hooker did not record "Boogie Chillen" until September 1948, when Collins was 16. Hooker was already living in Detroit by 1944, when Collins was 12, and there is no suggestion that he might have played in Texas at that time. So if Collins was inspired by "Boogie Chillen", it was when he was 16 or older, and if he was inspired to concentrate on the guitar at 12, it was not by Hooker or "Boogie Chillen", so I'm tempted to remove the sentence unless someone can find a reference that could improve its accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Freewheeling frankie (talk • contribs) 10:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

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