Talk:Alboin

older entries
Alboïn was killed in 572 at Verona by (H)Elmechi(s) [Helmgis, Helmgeis, Helmgies], his horseman, the lover of Ros(a)munda (or Rosemonde). Calabria Geoffrey, from France.


 * Added this info with quotation of Paulus, reference to Charles Oman, and link to external translation of the text. Hope this is good enough. Srnec 20:03, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Totally! I hope you agree your effort was worth it! Now the colorfulness comes right from the source. And now the literary conventions that the reader detects in the dramatic vignette can be fruitfully discussed. --Wetman 22:08, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree myself. This is much better.  The effort was worth it, but I don't believe the original revert was entirely necessary.  All's well that end's well and once again Wikipedia proves that it is possible for folks who don't even know each other to help create a source of truthful information for everybody.  Srnec 04:03, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Opening paragraph
This vita still needs a succinct opening paragraph summarizing the salient events of Alboin's career. --Wetman 07:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Tolkien?
Just added a note about Tolkien's use of Alboin; is this in the proper format? I'm not accustomed to adding "literary uses" sections. Nyttend 01:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "In an early version of J. R. R. Tolkien's fantasy time-travel story The Lost Road, Tolkien considered placing one of his main characters in the person of Alboin." ...but didn't. It does seem like a minor factoid, even at The Lost Road. I didn't delete it here: but does this add anything at all to the Wikipedia reader's picture of Alboin?--Wetman 23:47, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Correction?
This has been anonymously deleted: "Alboin had vowed to put all the citizens of the captured cities to death. " If it is a remark in a source, it should be returned, with its source.--Wetman 23:47, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

The name Alboin
is very similar to Albin, meaning "white". But the normal French version of Albin is Aubin. The similar name Alvin has the same root as Alboin, namely Ælfwine, meaning "elf friend", but also, it seems, "Edelwine", meaning "noble friend". According to the article Audoin comes from Eadwine (Edwin), meaning "wealth friend". I would say it looks most obviously similar to the Norwegian names Audun and Audvin, with the same meaning, also interpreted as "gifted". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.40.128.194 (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Dates and drama?
I'm concerned that in the body of the article there is almost a complete dearth of dates. It's just "then he did this, then he did that," with no dates to nail down exactly (or even approximately) when any of these events occurred. There also seems to be far too much dramatic storytelling, recounting of obvious legends, and so on -- and not nearly enough history. This especially true of the section on his assassination, which is pure melodrama. --Michael K. Smith (talk) 00:48, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Gepids
There's currently the phrase "Gepids' king Thurisind" in the article. I'm wondering if it would be correct to rephrased this to "Gepid king Thurisind"? Have you seen phrases like "Gepid culture" and "Gepid armies"? Nev1 (talk) 23:18, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll write it that way, it seems better, and yes, I remember a chapter in a book titled "Gepid culture", so it's fine. Thanks for the input. Aldux (talk) 23:45, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

FAC questions
I've had a stab at addressing at least some of the criticisms of the lead in the current FAC, but there are a few things I think still need to be clarified:


 * "During the first war between the two the Gepids initially had the upper hand, but in 567, thanks to an alliance with the Avars, Alboin inflicted a decisive defeat on his enemies". I'm a little thrown by the mention of a "first war". Was the victory in 567 the end of that first war, a second, or what?


 * "After gathering together a large motley group". This is a little too colourful and imprecise for my taste. A large group of what? Mercenaries? In what way were they "motley"? Weren't they mainly Lombards?


 * "He entered an almost undefended Italy, by-passed the Julian Alps". Is "by-passed correct here?


 * "By this time though, signs of disintegration and loss of control over the army were beginning to manifest themselves." What does "disintegration" mean here? Disintegration of what? Presumably this is talking about Alboin's army, not any army that might have been opposing him?

Malleus Fatuorum 13:39, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, from the lead it's not very clear, I'm afraid. In Alboin I hopes it comes out clearer: in 565/566 there was a first war in which the Gepids with Byzantine help defeated Alboin; immediately after a Lombard/Avar coalition destroyed in 567 the Gepids, with the Byzantines this time neutral.
 * I tried to use an expression that would convey that more than the simple migration of a Germanic tribe, Alboin put together a vast coalition of peoples (this is a point on which scholars hammer a lot). Hopefully, the fist paragraph in Alboin should make this clear.
 * My mistake here, I should have used "crossing" instead of "passing".
 * By "disintegration" I meant that Alboin's control over his army weakened, even if I have a feeling that disintegration my be a bit too strong word. Aldux (talk) 14:58, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

On the birth date is it OK to put "c. 530" in the lead? That could imply that he may have been born before 530, which for issues of chronology is impossible.Aldux (talk) 00:38, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure what this means: "he notes a similarity between Peredeo's name and the Latin word peritus, meaning "lost", and represents all the Lombards who have betrayed and passed to the service of the Empire." Malleus Fatuorum 18:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not surprised of that: I forgot to say thas the "he" is Goffart. As for Perideo, Goffart is arguing that Paul's cubicularius is not a really existed historical figure but a symbol of all those Lombards that have betrayed the Lombard nation to become mercenaries in the imperial army; and by betraying they have "lost" themselves (Latin periti). I hope the concept is clear now. Aldux (talk) 18:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And another thing: couldn't "treacherous" be a bit too strong and pov? After all, serving as mercenaries for the Empire was typical among Germanic peoples, Lombards included. This is a moral judgement passed by the Paul, reflecting his perspective (on which, having used "betrayed", I too may have not bene nuanced enough).Aldux (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just reflecting your "betrayed". Why not not just drop the valued judgement altogether and simply say "those Lombards who chose to become mercenaries in the imperial army"? Malleus Fatuorum 00:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, good point.Aldux (talk) 00:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean. I don't know what the "official" notation might be, but I've changed it back to "530s". Malleus Fatuorum 00:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

bad grammmar
"kidnapping of Cunimund's daughter Rosamund, whom she was immediately forced to marry." This syntax should mean that some woman was forced to marry Rosamund. Please fix as appropriate. 4.249.63.17 (talk) 23:51, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Anachronistic place names?
Early history of southern Europe is a long way from being a specialist subject of mine, but I have to query the grounds for frequent references to Italy in the 6th century. Was there any meaningful sense in which there was an entity called Italy at that time? Kevin McE (talk) 23:57, 25 February 2012 (UTC)


 * "Italy" is fine in the period following the Gothic War, but "Venetia" before the founding even of Venice itself? Not so good.--Wetman (talk) 01:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm too hasty: just ignore me: Regio X was that of Venetiae et Histriae.--Wetman (talk) 01:33, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Which "him"?
 The Gepids obtained the support of the Emperor in exchange for a promise to cede him the region of Sirmium. I surmise that the "him" here is Cunimund. But the wording is too unclear to edit.--Wetman (talk) 00:32, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Map
I changed the map that contains the extension of the Lombard kingdom at the death of Alboin (572), because it's wrong: the duchies of Benevento, Spoleto and Tuscia were created only since 575/576, year of the decisive defeat of Baduarius and the rebellion of the Lombards who were foederatus of the Empire (Zotto and Faroald). --Glz19 (talk) 10:32, 3 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Do we have a source for File:Kingdom of the Lombards 572.svg @Glz19? A455bcd9 (talk) 10:27, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @A455bcd9 I created the map from this one removing the duchies of Tuscia, Spoleto and Benevento, that were founded after the death of Alboin, according to modern historiography (about the last two see Jarnut, Storia dei Longobardi, p. 34). The map can be improved (I'm not sure about the territory of Isola Comacina and the border with the imperial Liguria). --Glz19 (talk) 13:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Glz19. Thanks for your help. I've updated the description and the source of File:Kingdom of the Lombards 572.svg and File:Alboin's Italy-it.svg: are they correct? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @A455bcd9 It's ok for my map (for the other one I can't check the source), thank you --Glz19 (talk) 23:40, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:10, 15 December 2022 (UTC)