Talk:All in the Family/Archive 1

Blown Up
Under the Controversial Nature section it reads, "...an activist from the Hebrew Defense League showed up, proposing violent retaliation against whomever painted [the swastika], but upon leaving, he was blown up in his car, as the Bunkers watched in horror from their front door." If I'm not mistaken, he, meaning the activist, wasn't blown up. The neighbor from down the street whom the swastika was meant for (and whom the activist was trying to protect) was blown up.


 * Absolutely not. It was definitely the activist and his car. The last line of the show is Archie spelling this out. Claude 14:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Sammy's Visit
I don't see how his excitement is "in spite of his bigotry". His excitement merely shows that when it comes to celebrity status, his bigotry runs in the other direction. Hackwrench 02:44, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I disagree in that despite Archie's enthusiasm in meeting a celebrity his racism is so deeply ingrained that he says things to Davis such as he can understand that he's "colored, because you didn't have no choice in that, but what made you turn Jew?" and using his interpretation of the Bible to say that God didn't want the races mixing because "he put you guys in Africa and the rest of us in all the white countries." His bigotry is so much a part of his personality he didn't even intend offense when saying these things. Davis even mocked this when he pointed out that if Archie were a bigot he would have called him coon or nigger, but instead used the term colored (considered derogatory by that time). -Tom 10:28, 28 April 2008

Pictures
The pictures have disappeared.

I remember my mom and her siblings saying that Grandpa had an "Archie Bunker for President" t-shirt, and that it was his favorite shirt.

JesseG 22:07, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Reruns in the last season
This isn't an issue specific to All in the Family -it's applicable to all articles about TV shows on Wikipedia - but I don't know how to write about a last season's summer reruns in an article that mentions the last airdate. The truth of the matter is that CBS broadcast episodes of AiTF past April 1979 - they did so right on through the summer in reruns. So while I understand the change you made, Mike, it also isn't exactly true. But I don't know quite how to say it in the article - that the last original episode aired in April but reruns (i.e., CBS broadcasting the series) continued right up through the summer. Ideas? Because this is a common problem on all of these articles and it'd be great to come to some kind of consensus for the infoboxes, etc. Moncrief 06:18, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)


 * You can always say "final original episode aired on April so and so 1979" and have it be true. I think it's a given that a show still airs reruns in the summer. Mike H 03:18, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree that most Americans realize that US shows air summer reruns (or did nearly universally until recently), but not all readers of Wikipedia will know this (for example, British readers from an entirely different system of TV airings). I clarified it in this case, but I still think it's something we need to be aware of in other TV articles.  I don't have the answer.  Moncrief 03:22, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Astoria?
Please offer proof - which episode, season - Archie mentions they live in Astoria. I've read in several places that the neighborhood of Queens they lived in was never mentioned. There are references to Northern Boulevard, but also references to being somewhat close to Kennedy airport - in other words, amorphous locations in Queens. The house filmed in the opening credits isn't anywhere near Astoria, Queens. Moreover, Manhattan is referred to as being a fair remove from their neighborhood - a rather long subway trek - and that's not indicative of being in Astoria either. Moncrief 23:46, July 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * According to The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable TV Shows (Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh, ISBN 0345455428), 704 Hauser Street is located not in Astoria, but Corona, Queens, which the Wikipedia article there states. Another book, Archie & Edith, Mike & Gloria (Donna McCrohan, ISBN 0894805274) states the address is in Astoria, Queens.  Neither book gives an episode where this information came from.  I can't remember hearing anybody say it in the show, but I hadn't paid attention, either.  Both of these books are pretty accurate.  Rt66lt 03:01, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I remember hearing Astoria mentioned in an episode, but I cannot remember which one. This weekend TVLand is running a marathon of "All In The Family" with the top ten favorite episodes.  The Astoria episode may be in the mix.  I never knew anything about Astoria, Queens, etc.  It wasn't a tid bit that matter very much.  However, now that you have brought this discussion into the mist of this talkpage it is something I desire too find out more about. --Bumpusmills1 02:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The 15 January 1977 episode "Archie's Chair" (episode 148 of season 7 from the List of All in the Family episodes), Archie told an artist his address was 704 Houser Street, Astoria, Queens. So there's the answer. --Bumpusmills1 12:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There is a direct reference to Astoria, as the place of residence of the Bunkers, in episode 127 of season 6 from the AITF Episode Compendium. A jeweler friend of the Bunkers, Bernard Bernstein, the inventor of a remote front door bell ringer, mentions that the reason the invention does not work is that the "ionospheric waves (or something similar)" may be different in Astoria.--Jazzeur 18:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Another direct reference to Astoria, as the place of residence of the Bunkers, is made by a lady reporter granting Edith with the «Citizen Of The Week» award for saving a man's life using CPR, in episode 142 of season 7 from the AITF Episode Compendium .--Jazzeur 22:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In the Archie Bunkers Place episode "Stephanies Tryout", she wears a jersey that says: "Astoria".

Please stop bumping up your spammy site in the External Links
Or I'll delete it altogether. It's less useful than the Encyclopedia of Television link, far more commercial, and certainly less professional and neutral. If you want to make Wikipedia the best it can be rather than just using Wikipedia as a platform for your own marketing, you'll stop changing the order of these sites. Moncrief 06:24, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

TV Land 10 Ten
The weekend of January 14 & 15, 2006 has been great for "All In The Family" aficionado's everywhere. The Number One episode is when Sammy Davis, Jr came too pick up his briefcase. --Bumpusmills1 13:46, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Pilots
This page is incorrect in stating that there were only two pilots made; in fact, there were three, each featuring different actors playing the daughter and son-in-law (and at least two actors playing Lionel Jefferson). -- Gerkinstock 03:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Cast changes
The article does not say when Mike and Gloria moved out. I have seen the episode, of course, but I don't know what season it is. Since Edith's "departure" and the Jeffersons' departure are well-documented in the main article, it seems to be an omission for the Stivics' departure (and move next door and Joey's birth, both before it) not to be detailed. I am assuming, if incorrectly, that the Stivics left when the actors' five-year contracts expired, and they made guest appearances under other arrangements. GBC 21:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Mike and Gloria moved out in episodes 175 to 177, at the end of season 8. --Jazzeur 17:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

«All in the Family» trivial references
--Jazzeur 14:04, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What is the name of Dr. Sidney Shapiro's father (see episodes 193 and 202 )?  The name of Dr. Sidney Shapiro's father is: Dr. Seymour Shapiro (see episode 124 ).


 * In episode 200, from the AITF Episode Compendium, Stephanie tells Archie that she is doing a homework in mathematics in which one of the questions is: «"A" and "B" are in a race. "A" is going at 4mph and left 2 hours before "B". "B" is going twice as fast as "A". How long will it take for "B" to catch "A"?» The answer is: «"B" will catch "A" in 2 hours; at a distance of sixteen miles from the starting point.»--Jazzeur 20:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Citing sources
How ocme this article doesn't cite its sources like some of the other article do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TommyHearns321 (talk • contribs) 00:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:All in the family.jpg
Image:All in the family.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Greatest Character Claim
The article states that TV Guide named Bunker the greatest TV character, but there's currently no citation for this. Furthermore, I recall a TV Guide list of the 50 Greatest Characters (the issue featured Star Trek's Spock and others on the cover) in which Louie from Taxi was given the Number 1 position (if I remember correctly). This suggests that TV Guide has had more than one list of this type, so in addition to the citation, a date specifying which list is referred to should also be added. --James26 (talk) 16:21, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Footnote
Why won't the footnote in the sequence at the bottom of the page work? Nick4404 yada yada yada 00:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Lodoss War material
It is highly unlikely that a show that ended its run in 1983 influenced a voice actor dubbing a series almost ten years later, especially without sourcing. MSJapan (talk) 15:51, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

"Absence of consideration" - Quit Bitching
"By waiting almost two years to publish this season, Sony Pictures has demonstrated a total absence of consideration and respect towards the fans of this series."

For pete's sake, do we REALLY need this footnote in the DVD release section? First of all, it is unencyclopedic, it feels like an irate fan. Second, do people realize why some DVD sets don't get released? Sometimes it's due to poor sales of previous seasons. Other times it's because they can't clear music rights or other legal crap (see Malcolm in the Middle). Sometimes it's because the master tapes are missing. The list goes on. The unreleased seasons are very likely not due to "absence of consideration", but due to a variety of factors similar to what I have named.

I'll admit, little would please me more than seeing all season boxsets on my shelf at home, but really, this mini-complaint has NO PLACE whatsoever on the page, so quit adding that footnote.

Flytrap (talk) 23:57, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. This has been done and undone enough times that perhaps it's time to consider protecting the page for awhile. I've read the instructions but I'm still unclear about doing this correctly. Can anyone help? Claude (talk) 19:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

O'Connor on strike -possible myth
I have removed a section on Carroll O'Connor's threat to leave the show, as well as his demands for travel accommodations to Italy. There are no references for these claims; furthermore, there are no references at all for the bio section of O'Connor as Archie.Dogru144 (talk) 01:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, O'Conner lived in Italy when he was asked to do the show. He agreed to return to the US to film the piolet only if the producers agreed to pay his expenses to return to Italy if the pilot was not pickrd up. It was, O'Conner remained in the US, and the whole thing became a moot question. Tbonge (talk) 22:51, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Considering edit wars re spelling of Kelcseys
I comment to express my view of our roles as editors. At issue I put the editorial opinion of "New Age Retro Hippie", who insists on deleting documentation of variant spellings of "Kelcy's" and "Kelsey's" as trivial and unsourced.

I find it ironic that an editor with "Hippie" in the nom de plume appeals more than once to what is "allowed" (by "the man" maybe?), instead of appealing more appropriately to specific Wikipedia guidelines that attempt to direct the behaviour of a community of editors.

I reverted one such deletion, and will not revert another. Partly, I regard the editorial atmosphere of Wikipedia as democratic. I "vote once", and if others take the same action as I did, I take it as evidence that my opinion is not unique or freak. I think some editors should regard opposition from varied sources as an indication that their view might be incorrect.

I remember repeated vandalism by one editor and his devious sock puppets, upset by the failure of Sony to release some episodes of AITF on DVD. I wish all editors would regard the history of edits and accept defeat in that a number of others opine against them, and that their opinion is in a minority, if not completely unique to themselves.

Yes, some iconoclasts have advanced our understanding by prevailing against popular opinion, but for each of them, let us remember that a hundred or more are simply wrong. And I'm extremely loathe to advocate that popular opinion means truth, but...

If you are repelled, compel.

Your opinion will never prevail among a community merely from repeating your behaviour. If your opinion is to prevail, you must use reason and rhetoric to persuade the community that your opinion is correct.

But I ramble...
 * While I don't like Hippie's tactics, I'm inclined to think that the spelling is a bit trivial. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:26, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I am removing this
I am removing this under the Cultural impact section-"In the series The Golden Girls, in an episode where the girls discover their neighbor's palm tree has crashed into their yard after a storm, their neighbors make an appearance and have personalities very similar to the Bunkers." This is not sourced. It was also the opinion of whomever placed it in the article. Since this is NOT fact,but rather a opinion, I am removing it.--BeckiGreen (talk) 23:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I am also removing this-"The theme song was featured on YouTube in a musical video parody titled "Classic TV" by Dave Coyne (aka DCLugi of Internet fame) where he played both Archie and Edith performing the song." If this isn't promotion or self promotion,I don't know what is. So what? Some guy made a parody of All In The Family,so have a million people. Also the "by Dave Coyne (aka DCLugi of Internet fame)" sounds ridiculous. I have never heard of the guy and saying "internet fame" is ridiculous. Also how many people have put a video on you tube about All In the Family? Should we list all those people too?--BeckiGreen (talk) 00:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

points needing inclusion
There is no mention of the significant change in Archie's and Edith's personalities between the first and second seasons. The change to Archie -- apparently instigated by Carroll O'Connor -- moved him from being a vicious bigot, to a person who, in his own view, has no prejudices, because everything he believes is just common sense. Jane Stapleton moved from playing Edit' more or less straight to the lovable dingbat she became.

There is no mention that, not long after the series became a huge hit, O'Connor twisted CBS's and/or Norman Lear's arms to have his salary raised to $50K per episode, a huge amount at that time. Residuals were fairly low, then (I don't know if they still are), and O'Connor felt the network and the producers should not be the only ones to profit from the show's success.

Betty Garrett was not the first actress to play Irene Lorenzo (or whoever the character was). I don't remember her name, but Carroll O'Connor objected to her, apparently because he felt she was such a good actress she would upstage him. I remember seeing this episode. There have been other cast changes (I believe Lionel was originally played by a different actor) that need to be documented.

Though I doubt anyone has ever written about it (in such a way that it could be used a reference), it is significant that "All in the Family" has had no lasting effect on American society. It's unlikely that "All in the Family" changed even one person's mind about anything. Perhaps it's unreasonable to expect "socially aware" programming to have any permanent effect. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 21:44, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

POV issue
"Archie's eulogy for his friend is often referred to [as] a rare occasion where he was capable of showing the humanity he tried so earnestly to hide."

This is a highly subjective interpretation. Archie Bunker is like a lot of men of his era -- he hides his emotions, afraid that they'll make him look weak or "unmanly" (ie, effeminate). To equate this with "hiding his humanity" inverts what it actually going on. Archie certainly doesn't see the free expression of emotion as part of true masculinity. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 22:01, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Justin Quigley - Burt Mustin
Perhaps I have overlooked the obvious in both the article and also within a talk section, but I cannot find the character of Justin Quigley played by actor Burt Mustin in this article. He should be mentioned under "recurring characters" since he was a recognized personality by the audience who was brought back on several occasions. His first appearance was in Season 4 episode: "Edith Finds an Old Man". He makes another 4 appearances throughout the run including "Archie's Weighty Problem". Would anyone mind my including him as a "recurring character"? unless of course I'm missing something already. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 22:30, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea, to me. Willondon (talk) 02:01, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Descriptions of Archie Bunker too harsh
I have slightly edited the description of Archie in order to provide more balance because the tone was all wrong. Norman Lear created Archie Bunker in order to represent an archaic way of thinking in Archie all too prevalent in America, and as a way to make a social commentary. To describe Bunker as being almost an evil racist goes too far and if that were the character then it would have never drawn the audience it did. An article like this is not the place to make a political commentarythat was the job of the show 'All in the Family'. It makes no sense to make the description of Bunker to be such as one that ignores his humanity--- no matter how flawed that is. I believe the very fact that character portrayed by Archie's wife Edith-- a virtual saint of a woman-- who finds humanity in her husband and love (as it was intended in the narrative by Norman Lear the show's creator), basically means Archie isn't as evil as the original description in this article suggested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.175.117.222 (talk) 08:49, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Origin of the phrase
I think the fact that there was a syndicated political column called "All in the Family" for thirty years is a significant bit of trivia for this page. Can you ask Norman Lear if he'd heard or read the title before he coined the phrase? Hank chapot 06:46, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Lear didn't coin the phrase; it's been around a lot longer than the show. Darguz Parsilvan 11:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Asking Lear himself and including his answer here would also be original research not permitted in Wikipedia. 147.70.242.40 (talk) 19:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * If the asker was an interviewer and the interview were to be published, including that information would not be original research. I'm guessing he didn't intend to suggest a wikipedian randomly find Mr. Lear and put the question to him so that it could be included in Wikipedia. 50.77.156.102 (talk) 19:30, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Locating «Hauser Street» project
This project is an attempt to locate the fictional 704 Hauser Street by interpreting other spatial references mentioned in various episodes.
 * In the "Archie's Brief Encounter (Part 2)" episode, a reference is made to the effect that «Steinway St.» is not far from the Bunker house. One could assume that 704 Hauser St. would be close to  | 35th Avenue and Steinway Street.  --Jazzeur 21:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Reunion on Hauser Street episode, Edith mentions that the address of Denise, the waitress with which Archie had a brief encounter Archie's Brief Encounter (Part 1 and 2), is 113-64 67th Street. In the Archie's Brief Encounter (Part 1) episode, Denise says she knows that Archie does not live far from her and that Kelcy's Bar is not far from her place neither. Here is a possible location for Denise's apartment. --Jazzeur 22:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Bogus Bills episode, Archie has to go to the Elmhurst police station to get Edith, who was arrested for passing a counterfeit $10. The address of the Elmhurst police station (115th Precinct) is 92-15 Northern Boulevard, Queens. It is fair to assume that this locationis not far from the Bunkers. --Jazzeur 21:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Stephanie's Conversion episode, Edith mentions that they should contact a synagogue on 97th Street so that Stephanie can get teachings in the Jewish faith. It is fair to assume that the this location is within a reasonable distance from 704 Hauser Street. --Jazzeur 20:58, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Fire episode, Edith tells the operator that to get to their house, the fire trucks need to go down Northern Boulevard east, turn right at the Rexall Drug Store, and go two blocks in. Several People above in the section titled "Astoria?" have demonstrated well enough that the Bunkers' house is located in Astoria.  So we know that the bunkers live two blocks off Northern Boulevard in Astoria.  12.165.27.130 (talk) 18:26, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Origin of "dingbat"
Porky in Wackyland mentions a TerryToons cartoon character named Dingbat. Is this where the word came from? Clarityfiend 20:41, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * A dingbat is a typrographer's term; Zapf Dingbats is one example.

Political insight
For some reason, Thingg has deemed this not worth keeping on the "All in the Family" page despite its now proven prescience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.170.12.120 (talk) 18:40, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * In the 1973 Episode "Henry's Farewell", Gloria predicts that the United States will elect a black man as President before it ever elects a female President.


 * Why is this worthy of note? Who got the vote first? Oh that's right, black men, by half a century. Seems like there's a pretty solid precedent. 50.77.156.102 (talk) 19:49, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Controversy
what was the controversial thing of this show, why is it categorized as a controversial tv show
 * Hopefully this section from the 1970s article will answer your question.


 * In the United States, television in the seventies was transformed by what became termed as "social consciousness" programming, spearheaded by television producer Norman Lear. All in the Family, his adaptation of the British television series Til Death Us Do Part, broke down television barriers. When the series premiered in 1971, Americans heard the words "fag," "nigger," and "spic" on national television programming for the first time. All in the Family was the talk of countless dinner tables throughout the country; Americans hadn't seen anything like it on television before. The show became the highest-rated program on US television schedules in the fall of 1971 and stayed in the top slot until 1976—to date, only one other series has tied All in the Family for such a long stretch at the top of the ratings. Mike H (Talking is hot) 05:19, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

In a warning to viewers, CBS ran a disclaimer before airing the first episode (which disappeared from the screen with an exaggerated sound of a toilet flushing) "'The program you are about to see is All in the Family. It seeks to throw a humorous spotlight on our frailties, prejudices, and concerns. By making them a source of laughter we hope to show, in a mature fashion, just how absurd they are.'"

This is wrong. I saw those initial episodes myself back in 1971. The disclaimer was only spoken by an announcer, over a publicity photo of the cast. It was eventually dropped, but the episodes never had the disclaimer printed on screen; it wasn't preceded by the word WARNING, and did not include the sound of a toilet flushing. All this was erroneously implied in a 1991 All in the Family anniversary special, possibly for humorous effect, but as television history, it's wrong. This information about the toilet flush and WARNING is all over the web, probably copied from Wikipedia (or vice versa). I'm unable to find anything on the web to support what I'm saying here, though the Robert Metz' book, CBS: Reflections in a Bloodshot Eye might be a help (I no longer have a copy). Just1thing (talk) 00:43, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


 * That entire section has been tagged as WP:OR for almost three years. I've removed the section but left the information in-tact in the collapsed table below. Please do not re-add this information to the article until verifiable sources can be included.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 01:18, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Apparently 2 years isn't long enough
I removed a section of unreferenced original research that had been tagged since January 2012; the edit was reverted on the grounds that it "should be discussed (here) first". This is obviously nonsense, especially as the editor apparently couldn't be arsed to discuss anything. But in the interest of placating a revert-for-the sake-of-reverting, here's some "discussion". The list of actors in dual roles was both unreferenced (and tagged as such for 2 years) and incomplete. What about Ed Peck, who played a tax-cheat in "Archie's Fraud" and a police officer in "Archie's Contract"? Edith Diaz, who played Serafina Mendoza in "The Elevator Story" and Maria Estrada in "We're Having a Heat Wave"? Barbara Cason, who played Clair Packer in "The Election Story" and a hospital nurse in "Birth of the Baby"? Corey Fischer, who played Jeff in "Mike's Hippie Friends Come to Visit" and a jailed hippie in "Archie and the Lock-up"? Michael Mann, who played Reverend Harris in "New Year's Wedding", Dr. Dolby in "Gloria's False Alarm", and Rabbi Jacobs in "Stephanie's Conversion"? Frank Campanella, who played Det. Sgt. Perkins in "Archie Sees a Mugging" and Officer Garsky in "Archie's Civil Rights"? Louis Guss, who played the Delivery Man in "The Locket" and Sam in "Superbowl Sunday"? Ect, ect, ect. Such a ridiculous list could go on forever. What criterion decides who gets mentioned and who doesn't? And why in the world would anyone object to removing unreferenced material after two years of waiting for the requested citations? Joefromrandb (talk) 06:49, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I was alarmed by the sheer volume of material being deleted without discussion. I'm also not much of a stickler for sources when any layman can examine the subject of the article to verify things themselves.  But I understand your reasoning, now, so I'm happy with the edit. Willondon (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2014 (UTC)