Talk:Aminoglycoside

azithromycin question
azithromycin — what about it? it's a macrolide.
 * then it doesn't belong here then does it? 90.207.35.126 (talk) 20:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

ribosomal subunit
Is the preferred form with a capital or with a lower case letter? 30S or 50s  Thanks. Mseliw 12:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Should be with a capital 'S' for Svedberg, the non-SI unit of ultracentrifugation. -- MarcoTolo 00:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense suppression
is this vandalism, or am I missing something? Juhan RSA (talk) 14:26, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually no (surprising as it may seem). It provides some references in the section, and I found this article that talks about the use of Aminoglycosides for treatment of genetic diseases. --Wertyu739 (talk) 22:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Image gallery
These are not 'random images', they are images of the different types of aminoglycosides. Other antibiotic articles have images of the compound in question. Amdurbin (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC).
 * This page does look like an exception to the rule against image galleries. A visual, side-by-side representation of each aminoglycoside structure is informative in a way that a simple list cannot be.  Several Times (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In general, I agree, though their varied structural representations (e.g., chair- vs. other) and their varied poses (i.e., where the aminosugar is posed) results in an array of images remarkable to the non-specialist for their differences, rather than their commonalities. For a better Figure design, see
 * * M-P Mingeot-Leclercq, Y Glupczynski & PM Tulkens, 1999, Aminoglycosides: Activity and Resistance, Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 43(4) 727-737. Leprof 7272 (talk) 14:40, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

References to be updated
Ref. #9 (Pharmamotion by Flavio Guzman) leads to a blog in Spanish with no information on aminoglycoside mode of action. It should be substituted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fassbinder69 (talk • contribs) 12:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have begun this substitution. Apart from the Spanish language issue (with all due respect to Dr Guzman), it is not an appropriate published, peer-reviewed secondary or primary scientific source. Leprof 7272 (talk) 14:40, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Standard Image Format?
It would be nice to have all the aminoglycosides drawn the same way, currently various types of representation are used, and different orientations are shown, making comparisons difficult. I'm new here so I don't want to step on any toes, but I do have the ability to make a standard set of aminoglycoside images, if it's appropriate. I suppose I'll look into figuring out how the whole wikimedia business goes and figure out how to go through the proper channels. Scaldwell17 (talk) 07:12, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Concur. The chair seems to be the prevalent form presented, and so I will look to see if some "uniformization" can be done, short of beginning a completely new structure drawing effort. If another editor is ChemDraw savvy and wishes to create new images, I would be glad to be the structure checker/verifier.  Start from the Evans-Harvard ChemDraw template, please, so that over time the images begin to coverage on a common format. Leprof 7272 (talk) 14:40, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Temporary removal of some images from gallery...
In re-ordering the images in the gallery according to sub-class, the following images—which do not appear in the cited Mingeot-Leclercq et al. review—were pulled temporarily, until a citation merging them with the Mingeot-Leclercq list can be found. (I.e., that list, because dated, may not contain all relevant examples, but until a newer/better citation is identified, we have no source assigning these as aminoglycosides, nor can we assign subclass (without doing "original research").

File:Framycetin.png|Framycetin File:Bekanamycin.png|Bekanamycin File:Hygromycin b.svg|Hygromycin B File:Verdamicin.svg|Verdamicin File:Astromicin.png|Astromicin File:Spectinomycin.svg|Spectinomycin

Note, spectinomycin is arguably a distinct structural class. Leprof 7272 (talk) 14:47, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Unreferenced paragraph and related text redacted, because contrary...
…to other content on page, and to essentially all other authoritative secondary research source information on this class of antibiotics. That there can be mechanisms other than inhibition of protein synthesis at play when specific aminoglycosides are administered is both plausible, and acknowledged in the article. To take one alternative mechanism, which via a quote, appears to be an hypothesis, and to promote it as a general truth about the class, contrary to other parts of the article, and contrary to all other references appearing in the article (and all standard references to the subject) is to either be promoting a personal, non-preponderant view or to be presenting original research. To do the latter without citation, when it flies in the face of the preponderance of the review literature, and to do so with authority—such an inaccurate and unsourced text (second paragraph) cannot be allowed to remain longer.

The first paragraph could yet appear with its hypothesis, though the citation is singular, is dated (the 18-year old text is superseded, at least, by the 2005 5th edition of the same, see http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/41/4/577.1.full), as a citation is incomplete (it is a multi-author work, with Lorian as editor, so author is lacking), is a bit strange as source for this content (it is a laboratory methods manual, not a recent review of AG mechanisms), and it is very hard to come by (expensive text, no digital version or glimpse possible). If the content of this paragraph is returned in some fashion, its emphasis must reflect the broad literature's view of AG mechanism, and this particular idea must be represented as it appears in the source—as an hypothesis ("may be sufficient"). At the same time, more recent, appropriate sources should be sought to substantiate the idea, or the sources referenced in the original book chapter should be added.

Below are the two paragraphs that were redacted. Further citations and edits should be added by the original editor, so a discussion can take place regarding where this material might belong in the article. Leprof 7272 (talk) 18:32, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * "The protein synthesis inhibition of aminoglycosides does not usually produce a bactericidal effect, let alone a rapid one as is frequently observed on susceptible Gram-negative bacilli. Aminoglycosides competitively displace cell biofilm-associated Mg2+ and Ca2+ that link the polysaccharides of adjacent lipopolysaccharide molecules. "The result is shedding of cell membrane blebs, with formation of transient holes in the cell wall and disruption of the normal permeability of the cell wall. This action alone may be sufficient to kill most susceptible Gram-negative bacteria before the aminoglycoside has a chance to reach the 30S ribosome."


 * The antibacterial properties of aminoglycosides were believed to result from inhibition of bacterial protein synthesis through irreversible binding to the 30S bacterial ribosome. This explanation, however, does not account for the potent bactericidal properties of these agents, since other antibiotics that inhibit the synthesis of proteins (such as tetracycline) are not bactericidal. Recent experimental studies show that the initial site of action is the outer bacterial membrane. The cationic antibiotic molecules create fissures in the outer cell membrane, resulting in leakage of intracellular contents and enhanced antibiotic uptake. This rapid action at the outer membrane, it is presumed, accounts for most of the bactericidal activity. Energy is needed for aminoglycoside uptake into the bacterial cell. Anaerobes have less energy available for this uptake, so aminoglycosides are less active against anaerobes."

Created subheadings for non-mechanism paragraphs in earlier mechanism section.
These non-mechanistic paragraphs are largely unreferenced, and by parsing them according to subject, venues are created that should allow subject matter experts to address the areas that they know best. Cheers. Leprof 7272 (talk) 19:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Re-draft of mechanism section complete.
Though not perfect, I have completed today's redraft of the mechanism section. As noted above, non-mechanistic text was separated out into separate subsections, and these remain problematic—they lack citations, have material redundant with other parts of the article (compare Indications with Clinical), and are generally lower in quality of material. (The PK and PD sub-section is particularly unready for encyclopedia readers.) Note that while the three bullet point structure of the earlier version is gone, the ideas have been integrated. All three points still appear, though with different (unequal weights) as befits presentation of this mechanistic topic by the best sources. Note, in particular, that the "movement of the peptidyl-tRNA from the A- to the P-site" point still appears, despite it having no support in a reliable citation.

The only real redaction—apart from the two paragraphs noted, and appearing above—is the citation: which has appeared with a "self-published" query for three years. This is a personal set of web pages (with all due respect to Dr Guzmán), and so is not an appropriate repeat source for this article's topic. (See addition editor's questioning of this source, above.)
 * ref name=Flavio>Pharmacology Corner --> Protein synthesis inhibitors: aminoglycosides mechanism of action animation. Classification of agents Posted by Flavio Guzmán on 12/08/08

So, this section is now ready for some further "heavy hitting" by some other subject matter experts. Please, please, please expert editors—replace the sections of unreliable, unsourced text, with appropriate text worthy of a good article in a good online encyclopedia. Cheers. LeProf Leprof 7272 (talk) 20:42, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Three structures removed to make gallery consistent in format...
…so that all appearing structures have same chair-boat representation, so that readers do not have to have significant organic chemical expertise to view and compare drawings. (The chair-boat appears to have been settled upon earlier as the standard in this article; the majority of readily available images of aminoglycosides are in chair-boat, rather than line-angle representations, and so this makes sense.)

This image-removal-to-Talk is a stop-gap measure, until a better overall composite image for the various amino glycosides can be designed. (There is mention of such in a Talk section entitled Image Gallery above, that gives a citation to a good amino glycoside figure, and this citation is re-appended here, after the three structures that are being temporarily removed.)

Note, I searched the German and English wikipedia articles for better images of all of these amino glycosides, and those appearing are the best, most consistent images that could be identified.

Temporarily removed images:

Good image structure example, with good use of space and good structure conventions:
 * M-P Mingeot-Leclercq, Y Glupczynski & PM Tulkens, 1999, Aminoglycosides: Activity and Resistance, Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 43(4) 727-737.

173.15.74.18 (talk) 16:15, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

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