Talk:Amphibian/Archive 1

Request for update
hey all, wondering if be willing to update the Bornean Flat-headed Frog article in regards to the information found at http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/04/10/frog.indonesia.ap/index.html. The article in question says that only two of those frogs have been found, and neither disected, but the page on cnn says that recently some guys have cut open another 8 frogs that they captured in the wild recently. just hoping that someone would update this. thanks, patrick. 72.147.1.104 (talk) 02:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Suggest 3 possible wiki links for Amphibia.
An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Amphibia article:

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right. Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to &mdash; LinkBot 11:28, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Can link different times: ..., a dorsal nerve cord, a notochord, and a post-anal tail at different stages of their life. They have persisted since the dawn of tetrap... (link to section)
 * Can link walk on: ...Carboniferous period they also developed the ability to walk on land to avoid aquatic competition and predation while allow... (link to section)
 * Can link semi-arid: ...re bound to water. Several species have adapted to arid and semi-arid environments, but most of them need water to lay their eggs... (link to section)

Coordinate?
I suggest we coordinate all Amphibian pages - under Anura (but planned from this page down). See Talk:Anura. Stanskis 02:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Amphibians aren't only Anura, but also Caudata amongst others. I suggest Amphibians being the top of all Amphibia class not Anura order. --Julien 14:25, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Basic question not answered
Shame on this article for not telling the reader whether or not amphibians can breathe water. Something like that is a basic question that children would like to know (or adults who would like to settle a bet).


 * Read the section on Reproduction; included is the development of amphibians. They start life breathing with gills - gills are for breathing water.  The gills are eventually replaced with lungs - lungs are for breathing air.  More in-depth information on the development of these systems can be found in more specific articles (such as Frogs), since they may vary from amphibian to amphibian.  - Slow Graffiti 07:20, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Improvement Drive
Frog has been nominated to be improved by WP:IDRIVE. Help us improve it and support Frog with your vote on WP:IDRIVE. --Fenice 07:53, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Improvement
If amphibians have mastered the arctic, maybe we can put the name of one or more who live in that environment. Baiter 05:36, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Wood frogs live in the artic circle - they survive the coldest seasons by burying and freezing themselves. This is also mentioned on the Frogs article.  Is it necessary to include here? - Slow Graffiti 07:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Circulatory System
What are their circulatory system like ? Describe.


 * As above, you should refer to more specific articles (such as Frogs) as certain systems may vary from amphibian to amphibian. Some general characteristics of the amphibian circulatory system are described on the Frog article, yet many of the characteristics are shared by other tetrapods.  Wikipedia is always a work in progress, and this is obviously an incomplete article.  When you find the answer, why not add it yourself? That's how it works!  - Slow Graffiti 07:22, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

What are caecilians
So are caecilians tetrapods (by some stretch of the term), or is the lead in this article wrong? --liquidGhoul 11:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes-Tetrapoda is a group, and just because some sub-groups lost some or all of their four legs doesn't mean they are no longer tetrapods. Snakes, legless lizards, caecilians, etc. are still tetrapods.Dinoguy2 17:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, OK. Thanks alot --liquidGhoul 23:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Derivation of word "Amphibian"
'"from Greek αμφις "both" and βιος "life""'

The above clause had got lost in the middle of the opening paragraph. I've moved to to inside the first set of brackets - is this the clearest place?

AWO 00:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That's perfectly fine. Thanks --liquidGhoul 00:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Expert attention required
Recent updates from anonymous users have changed numbers in the article. Please can an expert check the information is still correct? Thanks, Malla  nox  00:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I have reverted, and also updated to current figures. --liquidGhoul 00:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

How many in a top 10?
I only see 9 species listed in the "Top 10" in the second paragraph of the Conservation section, and some are only vaguely identified. It would be helpful to have a more complete list. 70.57.152.81 (talk) 03:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The difference between amphibians and lizards
The reason I am looking on here is for the difference in amphibians vs. lizards. Can you help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.176.139.60 (talk) 12:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Lizards are reptiles, and therefore more closely related to things like snakes, turtles, crocs and tuataras. Lizards have scaled skin, whilst amphibians have a porous skin. Amphibians lay soft eggs, with no shell whereas lizards lay shelled eggs or have live birth. There are lots and lots of differences, as they are quite seperately related. --liquidGhoul (talk) 22:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Amphibians are a class and lizards are whatevers after a class.... i can't remember... anyway they're not at the same level. Dancing Angel 95 (talk) 00:18, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Amphibians Characteristics
This site needs more of the Amphibian's characteristics, to tell people that amphibians do things like lay their eggs in the water, are herbivores and that they have special openings for their ears.
 * Not all amphibians lay eggs in water, most are carnivores, and there is no opening for their ear. The tympanic membrane is on the outside, no hole whatsoever. --liquidGhoul 08:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Very true... Some amphibians lay their eggs in moist soil, and if you think about it, you always see pictures of frogs eating flies, not fruit. :-) Dancing Angel 95 (talk) 00:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

respiration
i DONT KNOW IF ANYONES NOTICED BUT THERES NO RESPIRATION! will someone please fix this now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.225.40 (talk) 02:42, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed section.
 * The article is missing several sections, including sections on the circulatory, respiratory, excretion, nervous and respiratory system. -- Ec5618 21:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Advertisements on the Taxobox Image
I am not sure if this is happening to everywhere on Wikipedia, but the image slot for the taxobox is infected with annoying advertisements. I should really be seeing the western spadefoot toad, not some advertisement. I honestly think this will seriously hurt the professionality and encyclopedic value of this article if the image is not going to represent an amphibian, but rather, an annoying "YOU ARE THE 999,999TH VISITOR TO THIS PAGE!!!! CLAIM YOUR NONEXISTENT PRIZE!!!!". Who's idea was it to put the advertisements in the image slot anyway? It is a bad idea. Or is my computer infected with adware? Hmm... I don't see this in any other article though. Giant Blue Anteater (talk) 05:05, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, you're the only one with the funky banner. The article history shows no vandalism to the images, and the image histories themselves show no spurious changes either.  I've seen malware that replaces images on website with crud ads; that may be what is happening to you.  &mdash; Coren (talk) 05:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have studied the history of this article, though. But anyway, I just took care of the problem by doing a system restore. I am sorry if I wasted anyone's time. Giant Blue Anteater (talk) 14:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Bad introduction paragraph...
"Amphibians are Ecological indicators so In recent decades, there has been a dramatic decline in amphibian populations around the globe and many species are now threatened or extinct. Scientists do not agree on the cause, but it is widely believed to be a direct result of the amount of water pollution made from industrial factories and other similar sources"

Could anyone fix this? The first sentence is vague and sounds bad. The second one could use a source citation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.31.115.114 (talk) 18:42, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

When was this Class designated?
When was this Class designated? I ask because I remember watching an old television show from the 1950's where they called frogs reptiles. I'm forced to conclude that it was either a very silly mistake, or that Amphibian class was designated only relatively recently. Siyavash 14:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Must have been a mistake, as Amphibia was named by Linnaeus in 1758.Dinoguy2 18:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but Linnaeus did not distinguish reptiles from the animals which we today call amphibians. I have the impression that only after the deaths of Cuvier and Lamarck (around 1830) some unrecognized genius finally made the distiction between these two classes. Only from the second half of the 19th century, biologists generally made a clear distinction between these two classes.

Lignomontanus 16:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It was possibly John Edward Gray, who first distinguished "amphibians" as we understand the term today from reptiles (1825)

Lignomontanus (talk) 19:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

According to Encyclopedia Britannica (1878 ed), the two groups where beginning to be separated by the early 19th century, first formally described as two groups by Alexandre Brongniart in 1803. The current use of the two units as classes came as an amalgam of Thomas Henry Huxley and Richard Owens work in the 1860ies. 83.108.130.13 (talk) 21:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Amphibians
amphibians are four-legged vertebrates. They can adopt to a land environment. However, they remain dependent upon water, which means need moist environment. They may live in or nearbodies of water or stay in moist burrows. Amphibians also depend on water for reproduction. Their eggs have no shells. They lay eggs in a pond, swamp, or stream to avoid drying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.207.106 (talk) 13:06, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Batrachia
Batrachia redirects here, with no explanation of why; in fact, the word appears only in the compound from Triadobatrachus, which someone unfamiliar with the term Batrachia and Greek etymologies might not even notice as related. My feeling is that if you're redirected, you should be able to see why in the first paragraph. This subject matter is not something I'm comfortable with, so I hope someone can clarify this. Cynwolfe (talk) 02:33, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Septa link wrong
(Under "respiration") I don't even know what "septa" is, so I don't know how to correct... Marco
 * Fixed it. Septa is the plural of septum. The way to find this out (if you didn't know it), is to look for the hatnote at the top of the SEPTA page (This article is about the transit agency. For anatomical term, see Septum.), then septum leads you to Alveolar septum. --catslash (talk) 20:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Amphibians are NOT an ecological indicator
Second paragraph currently says "Amphibians are ecological indicators". Extinction in our times - Global Amphibian Decline Collins, Crump (2009, Oxford) says (pp 23-26) amphibians fail to meet most criteria for such, and considering them such "canaries", outsisde of popular press, was a brief transient two decades ago. Perhaps a cite request tag should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.94.72 (talk) 18:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is an article citing crump and coming to opposite conclusions. The author conclude that amphibians are good indicators in the Florida Wetlands (abundance, easy sampling etc.)

Waddle, J, USE OF AMPHIBIANS AS ECOSYSTEM INDICATOR SPECIES
 * Viridiflavus (talk) 03:01, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

How long are they tadpoles?
Someone please add this info: How large a portion of their life do amphibians typically spend in tadpole form? Also, do they start to metamorphose immediately after hatching, or does the metamorphosis only begin after spending some time as a tadpole? SpectrumDT 22:23, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * As above, this is something that varies from genus to genus, species to species. Refer to more specific articles for more specific information.  In the line of taxonomic groupings, Class is a very large division, just under Kingdom and Phylum.  Amphibia is a Class containing almost 6,000 different species.  Move down the line for more specific information:  Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species.
 * Asking for a typical growth rate for amphibians is similar to asking for a typical growth rate or gestation period for a mammal (Class: Mammalia). A zebra has a gestation period of 365 days; a hippopotamus has a gestation period of 225 days; a lion only 108 days. - Slow Graffiti 07:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Basically here it is a few months, depending on temperature and individual differences. Metamorphosis is after spending quite some time as a tadpole. The tadpole is a growing stage mostly herbivorous, grazing algae, filtering rotatoria etc., depending on tadpole species and food availability. When the tadpole turns into a froglet it has to eat itself and use the matter and energy from the tissues it no longer needs to make the new structures, this actually takes only a day, and a few more days to resorb the tail (more thyroxin needed for tail resorption). After that the froglet can start eating small insects and such, that is why the metamorophosis is quick, while the tadpole stage is rather long (Some specimen stay tadpoles during the winter to metamorphisize the next year.). I dont quite agree with the above answer, because amphibiand and especially frogs are not that big. Of course the large larvae of the bullfrog and garlic toad take a bit longer. The common frog and the common toad mate around the same time and leave the water about the same time also, toad larvae and toadlets being smaller then common frog larvae and froglets, so probably the greater size is not that important, because of higher feed uptake and efficience for the larger tadpoles (garlic toads prefer eutrophic waters for instance, dont know about bullfrogs).

Viridiflavus (talk) 21:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Fresh Water and Oxygen questions
Re: the section involving reproduction and water phase. If amphibians do not habitate in salt water and require fresh water for reproduction then isn't it logical that way back in time, when they began to emerge from water to a terrestial adult phase, that water must also have been fresh? And, taking it back one more logical step, the fish they evolved from should clearly have been fresh water fish. It seems that the mantra, 'From the sea did all life come' may not be referring to an actual (salty) sea, but large bodies of fresh or slightly brackish water, larger than any that exist on earth today. One of the more interesting features of earth today is how little fresh water is actually in the tropics, where evolutionary opportunism and genetic diversity are most prevalent. Fresh water today is most common in the upper lattitudes. That said, atmospheric moisture is (and may always have been) higher in the tropics, on a more consistent basis.

There is also the issue of free oxygen, which must have been higher in the ages when fish became tetrapods. Size alone explains that, right? Not only fish, amphibians and the dinosaurs, but arthropods all were larger. Given the higher oxygen levels, respiration would also have been easier to accomplish. Are there any reliable data for oxygen levels during this era? Also, and by way of tying up two loose ends, is there a relationship between atmospheric oxygen and relative humidity? Today, given tropical temperature levels and current oxygen saturation, an RH of 100% translates to four percent water vapor. Increase oxygen to, say, 28%, and does the 4% figure change? If it were to increase, that might explain some things about terrestial evolution.Bdgriz56 (talk) 01:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Based on fossil evidence, the ancestors to tetrapods were indeed freshwater/brackish organisms, but those fish had oceanic ancestors (much as we see today, particularly with freshwater fish on oceanic islands).
 * As far as oyxgen levels, they were indeed much higher. Here's a paper on the topic, covering the last 550 million years:
 * Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much oxygen level influences maximal humidity, but some folks on the chemistry pages should be able to help. Mokele (talk) 03:43, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Opening section
I came here to combat vandalism, and the vandalism caused me to notice that the first paragraph is organized horribly. That first sentence just went on and on. I tried to fix it (and make it match other classes more closely), but I'm not sure if this is the best way to organize it. Well, if anybody has any ideas on how to better organize this, go ahead. 216.80.140.25 (talk) 15:49, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

The axolotl article says that it fails to undergo metamorphosis. This means that not all amphibians metamorphose, so it should not be one of the main characteristics. It should be mentioned in the opening paragraph, but not in the first sentence. I'm guessing that amphibians and metamorphosis is like mammals and giving birth to live young: most do it, but not all. So, what are the best ways to characterize Amphibians? 216.80.140.25 (talk) 15:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I think I took care of it. If anybody sees any improvements to be made, go ahead! 216.80.140.25 (talk) 16:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Cladistic approach and modern tetrapoda
Shouldn't all tetrapoda be classified as amphibia as well? Gbnogkfs 5 January 2007 16:17 UTC
 * Not really. Traditionally Class Amphibia has included all basal tetrapods, yes. However cladistic definitions of amphibia usually limit that group to the stem clade containing modern amphibians. Benton (2004), which I've advocated using as a standard guide for Linnaean ranks here, basically follows this. Basalmost tetrapods are not within any class, stem amphibians are in Class Amphibia, and Lepospondyli + Reptiliomorpha are in an "Unnamed Class", paraphyletic with respect to Amniota. Dinoguy2 23:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm remaining more and more surprised (I'm no biologist) by this monophyletic approach to classification that I've been discovering in the past months: very pragmatic approach. thanks for clarification :) Gbnogkfs 7 January 2007, 17:22 UTC

Speaking of phylogenetic systematics, I kept encountering a pet peeve of mine in this article: "reptiles and birds." Can we try to make this more accurate? So many people still have this idea that birds are this separate group and I hate the thought that Wikipedia should be keeping them misinformed. Mia229 (talk) 17:46, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion.
Hello, I was wondering if anyone could add to this page whether or not Amphibians regulate their temperature or they are regulated by their environment, like reptiles. I was looking through the page and I did not see any information concerning the topic (it is a pretty important fact, after all). I may be overlooking something, but if it truly isn't there, I would appreciate if it was added (my guess is ectotherm, but I could be wrong). Thank you. ~Regulus.


 * They are ectothermic, I will add it now. --liquidGhoul 02:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think "poikilothermic" (in contrast to "homeothermic," like those of us who maintain a constant body temperature using energy from food) is the most current description for this lifestyle. (These crazy biologists can't seem to decide what to call things!) Mia229 (talk) 17:52, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

double life?
Ok, I may just be crazy, but doesn't amphibian mean "double life" and not "both life"? Thanks! Dancing Angel 95 (talk) 00:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I happen to have my (rather battered) old copy of Liddell & Scott from my university days right here (comes in handy more often than one would expect)...amphi ('αμφί) literally means "on both sides" (it can also mean "on all sides," "around," or "about," but I think here it's pretty well-accepted that it is a reference to "both" ways of living) and bios (βίος) of course means "life" or "manner of living, livelihood." So amphibians are our little friends who live in both ways, on land and in the water.  Mia229 (talk) 17:56, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

What are Batrachians?
I followed a link to Batrachia, which redirects to this page, but that term isn't explained or even used here. Batrachian, on the other hand, redirects to Frog, which also doesn't explain the term. (There is one use of the word there, in reference to "an Early Permian stem-batrachian", but with no actual definition or explanation given). Wardog (talk) 16:30, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Both now redirect to frog. --Khajidha (talk) 18:03, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

This article is in desperate need of expansion
I looked at the Spanish version which has a link on this talk page and while I can't understand every word I will try to model this article after that one, because this article is surprisingly lacking, despite the fact that amphibians are a major group of organisms. I will be adding the following sections and over time expanding on them (when I have time). Anyone seeing this who can help out would be greatly appreciated. Here is the to-do list for this article: Add the following sections:
 * Expand upon evolution and classification using citations
 * Morphology
 * Skin
 * Skeleton
 * Digestion and excretion
 * Circulatory and nervous systems

I'm hoping I'm not alone on this, but it seems no one has cared about this article for a while so I may well be. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cadiomals (talk) 20:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Growth and development (life cycle)
 * Diet
 * I'm currently working on the article with regard to the points you raise above. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:12, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

New genetic study
Might be relevant. "This is the first molecular study to have signal supporting a paraphyletic Lissamphibia, allowing for the possibility of concordance between morphological and molecular data. If the paraphyletic hypothesis is true, caecilians and salamanders would be more closely related to humans and other amniotes than to frogs." FunkMonk (talk) 02:32, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Some edits coming up
Hi everyone,

As part of the FAC I'm going to have a run through of the article, probably making many edits. I haven't been active on wiki for years, so please be critical of my formatting etc cause it has likely to have changed since last I edited and I've also forgotten a lot of the mark-up. I'm trying, though. --liquidGhoul (talk) 03:20, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Today's Featured Article:
Would there be any objection to running this on the main page as today's featured article? Is there any date in particular that this could run on? I was thinking of nominating it. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 06:16, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I brought the article to FAC and would have no objection to it being Today's featured article. It could be run on April 25th (if that gives enough notice) because that is apparently Save the frogs day according to the US charity "Save the frogs". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

April 25th has already been chosen. Since there's no rush, I'll add it to the future list of FAC for April 25th for next year. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 04:37, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Dates have now been altered and Amphibian is to appear at TFA on 25th April this year. I propose to write a suitable blurb and find a good image shortly. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:09, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Merge Reproduction and Life cycle?
Both sections are essentially about reproduction, hence they should be merged. The sections on the reproduction of frogs vs salamanders vs caecelians could be shortened and the longer (original) versions outsourced to separate pages. Peteruetz (talk) 17:21, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * They are two quite different topics; reproduction is about the means of procreation, courtship behaviours, internal/external fertilisation etc., while life cycle is about the different developmental stages of the amphibian's life from egg to adult. They are both long sections as they are, and I do not see any great advantage in merging them and making an extra long section. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:58, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Image review
There seems to be some copyright issues witha few of the images, I'll mention them here. If they're "easy fixes", I'll just replace them myself.

The main image has no sources: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lissamphibia.jpg We can make a new collage.

This image is a nonfree stock photo: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nextgen_frog_01.jpg

This one could be replaced with one where the identity of the animal is less ambiguous: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fossilised_frog.jpg

This one does not mention author: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Plethodon_cinereus.jpg

This image does not specify what species it depicts, could be replaced: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kaulquappen_Tadpole_3.JPG

Maybe this drawing could be replaced by the neat development image used in Common Toad? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Metamorphosis_frog_Meyers.png The images in the reproduction section generally seem a bit randomly placed.

Apart from this, it could be nice to have images in the behaviour sections (diet, territorial) that display the behaviour, instead of just single, static specimens, I'll see if I can find something. FunkMonk (talk) 13:51, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I see you have made some useful image changes in the article. We could use this image but would need to annotate it. Here is my guess - what do you think? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:39, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) Right atrium
 * 2) Lungs
 * 3) Aorta
 * 4) Egg mass
 * 5) Colon
 * 6) Left atrium
 * 7) Ventricle
 * 8) Stomach
 * 9) Liver
 * 10) Gallbladder
 * 11) Small intestine
 * 12) Cloaca
 * Good idea,you can see here inthe Dutch version what it refers to: As for the image itself, I can maybe make a new version, it'spretty low res, eventhough it's based onthis high res one:  FunkMonk (talk) 12:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Darn, I had already painted most of the background out when I realised the photo was taken in the US. It is a sculpted model, so this means it is actually a copyright violation, since there is no freedom of panorama in the US... That museum is state owned though, so that might be a way out. FunkMonk (talk) 12:25, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have adjusted the list above in accordance with the Dutch wikipedia article. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:33, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice. And I see the model is fine to use, I'll finish the high res version. FunkMonk (talk) 13:55, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've made a new high res version, where the numbers are less intrusive. We can also add more numbers, if you wish. FunkMonk (talk) 14:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The "Lungs" and "Liver" are mislabelled. (I am unsure why it has taken me three years to spot this&mdash;sorry.) I have corrected the labels in the article and at Wikimedia Commons. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:27, 6 June 2015 (UTC)


 * It seems Seymouria is not considered an amphibian anymore, yet it is shown in the taxobox image. Should it be replaced, and by what?

Sexual selection
The way NOT to create a featured article is to shove badly written but important material (about sexual selection in this case) into a different article and hope nobody notices. And yet this is what has happened here, the sexual selection in amphibians article should, at the very least, be of the same quality as this article and well illustrated in the text here. The importance of sexual selection, especially in modern biology, demands this. Any help in making this a reality would be great. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 15:27, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Tag of tadpoles being being herbivorous
I have just very tentatively tagged the statement that tadpoles are typically herbivorous. Is this true? I thought they were typically carnivorous but I am far from being an expert in this. An in-line citation would be useful for such a statement. DrChrissy (talk) 20:28, 29 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm sure we used to feed them bacon when I was at school and we had some in a tank. DuncanHill (talk) 20:40, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * (ec) I think technically omnivorous, but in many instances herbivorous on algae. However, if the pond dries up some will still emerge alive, suggesting they can either cannibalise or at least eat their dead brethren (i.e. scavenge). I'll also wager that they can be shown to be capable of detritivory, sucking up some gunk (technical term), spitting out any large hard bits and trying to digest the rest (TM). There will be large interspecies differences depending primarily on what the preferred breeding habitat provides. No source handy, sorry. Samsara 20:45, 29 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Amphibia are sadly under-represented in my personal library. I did find this from the Amphibian and Reptile Conservation Trust online which says "Newly hatched tadpoles are herbivorous and feed on the algae that grows on pond plants or on rocks in the pond, particularly those exposed to the sun. In the latter stages of their development they become omnivorous, feeding on decaying matter in the pond and tiny creatures such as water fleas (daphnia)." DuncanHill (talk) 20:52, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sure I have read somewhere that some mother frogs lay unfertilised eggs for the tadpoles to feed on. And as a youngster I am sure we fed them on dog food! Perhaps we need a general statement that tadpoles adopt a range of diets? DrChrissy (talk) 21:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Until recently the conventional thinking has been that tadpoles are herbivores and detritarians. However, they have discovered some that are predators and many that are carnivores. Since there are thousands of species it isn't clear what the overall picture is. A typical tadpole might get something like 6% of it's food but 20% of its nutrition from animal sources. Studying this sort of thing is harder than it sounds. In some studies all they have is indirect evidence: throw some tadpoles in a pond and the algae flourish, apparently because the tadpoles are eating the little bugs that graze on the algae. Zyxwv99 (talk) 21:56, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Ross Alford in McDiarmid, R. W., and Altig, R. (Eds) 1999. Tadpoles: The Biology of Anuran Larvae writes that "most tadpoles are primarily herbivorous, but many are also capable of feeding on carrion and a few are carnivorous" (page 244) and that "many tadpoles may supplement their diets with animal protein through predation or scavenging on conspecific and heterospecific eggs and tadpoles" (p. 246). So herbivory indeed is typical in some sense but there is considerable plasticity within species and variation among species. Micromesistius (talk) 22:04, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I am surprised by that, but as I said, I am no expert in the subject. DrChrissy (talk) 22:48, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have removed the dubious tag and added a bit more information from the source. Most pond and stream frog tadpoles are herbivorous but there are some frog tadpoles, especially in other habitats, that are not. They are mentioned later in the paragraph. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:30, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to see the tag removed - and I like the additional information. Thanks everyone for the input. DrChrissy (talk) 19:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Lepospondyli and Temnospondyli
"They diversified and became dominant during the Carboniferous and Permian periods, but were later displaced by reptiles and other vertebrates."

Should mention Lepospondyli and Temnospondyli. Those are two other big clades of "froggy four-footers". Sometimes these two groups are considered amphibians, and I'd mention them for context. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 18:26, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * If you can find suitable reliable sources you could add the information yourself, but the evolutionary history is complex and as this is a featured article, please tread cautiously. You added a sentence to the lead which I have removed. The lead is a summary of the body of the text, so information of that sort needs to be added to "Life cycle" section, but again only if you have a source that supports your addition. (Sorry to sound like a dragon.) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:41, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Salt water....
Was answering someone's question about amphibians and salt water, and ran across this: http://www.bioone.org/doi/10.1655/HERPMONOGRAPHS-D-14-00006. I can only read the abstract, but here's the relevant line: "Here we provide a review of the literature of amphibians in saline waters and present data on 144 species, in 28 families, on every continent except Antarctica." I can't read the rest of the article, so I'm not sure how many of those are inland saline environments (eg salt lakes) vs ocean, but it suggests at least some modification is required to the "characteristics" section, which says "They are not found in the sea with the exception of one or two frogs that live in brackish water in mangrove swamps."

But, not sure how best to state the new information. Tamtrible (talk) 03:46, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Granular Glands for Amphibians
I see that there is mention of the granular and mucous glands which amphibians possess, however there is no specific page for granular or mucous glands with more in-depth information about the function, structure, mechanisms, etc. in which they operate. Do these glands merit enough value for me to create a page discussing them with credible sources and information? Thank you. Beckjt (talk) 23:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Certainly. The subject of amphibian skin and the structures within it is covered in reliable secondary sources, such as this one. William Avery (talk) 00:32, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Eyes - "an improvement on invertebrate eyes"??
Under Nervous and sensory systems, I saw this sentence: "The adult eyes are an improvement on invertebrate eyes and were a first step in the development of more advanced vertebrate eyes." Can anyone clarify this? It doesn't make sense to me because amphibian eyes evolved from early fish (vertebrate) eyes, which themselves evolved from... I'm not sure what, but definitely not from the eyes of familiar invertebrates such as arthropods or gastropods, some of which are fairly advanced. Tomatokate (talk) 19:34, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Edit request
Please change "but the discovery of a proto-frog from the Early Permian in Texas in 2008" to "but the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottoni from the Early Permian in Texas in 2008."

Expressly, please change "but the discovery of a proto-frog from the Early Permian in Texas in 2008" to "but the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottoni from the Early Permian in Texas in 2008."

Species named in cited Nature article by Reisz, Scott, Fröbisch, and Sumida. 77.58.230.187 (talk) 11:26, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:44, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:06, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Amphibian Metamorphosis.PNG

Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2018
In the eggs section of the article the scientific name of wood frog is stated as Rana sylvatica, which is incorrect. The current binomial name is Lithobates sylvaticus. 2601:803:8280:3220:2DEE:DB85:7C31:772E (talk) 21:15, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  D Big X ray ᗙ  12:50, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2019
Under the heading "Evolutionary History", please change the line "Some fish had developed primitive lungs to help them breathe air when the stagnant pools of the Devonian swamps were low in oxygen" to say "...had developed primitive lungs which helped them breathe air..." It is a small change, but the framing is very important for how the general public thinks about evolution. Evolution is not goal-driven. Variation exists, which is then selected for increased representation in subsequent generations when the fitness of a trait is high. Traits don't evolve "in order to" achieve a goal - they evolve and sometimes are beneficial and sometimes become key features of a group of organisms. Awrightmark (talk) 16:03, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Somebody fixed that. Hope to see you around. Regards, cygnis insignis 16:45, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2019
Greetings. I request the editing of the subtitles of this image: "File:Frog anatomy.JPG". The correct subtitle should be: 1 - Right atrium 2 - Right lung 3 - Abdominal vein (or "Posterior vena cava" if it is pointing to the kidneys) 4 - Right ovary 5 - Right oviduct (enlarged in breeding season) 6 - Left atrium 7 - Ventricle 8 - Stomach 9 - Liver 10 - Spleen 11 - Small intestine 12 - Cloaca My references are: Ecker, Alexander, 1889; The anatomy of the frog. Oxford, Clarendon Press. (https://archive.org/details/anatomyoffrog00ecke/page/n5) SEBBEN, Antonio et al. 2015. Anatomia comparativa de vertebrados: atlas fotográfico. University of Brasilia, Brazil (http://repositorio.unb.br/handle/123456789/35). In brazilian portuguese. Thank you. Patrícia S W PSWanderley (talk) 18:49, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: There is no image in the article named File:Frog anatomy.JPG. Are you referring to File:Frog anatomy tags.PNG?
 * Your second source does not work (due to an invalid identifier apparently) and your first source is 449 pages long. Can you give me a page number please? Or narrow it down a bit more?
 * I've changed gallbladder to spleen, as both you and File:Frog anatomy tags.PNG list spleen as correct. NiciVampireHeart 02:52, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: closing request as nil response to above query in more than 48 hours. Please feel free to re-open this request by changing "|answered=yes" to "|answered=no" and providing any necessary information and sources. NiciVampireHeart 09:35, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Language link
Hello.

I have created an article about amphibians in the Malagasy version of wikipedia, called 'amphibia', and want to link it to the amphibian articles in other languages but it's saying I don't have the rights to do so. I am a confirmed extended user in the English language Wikipedia, but either I don't have this status in Wikidata or in the Malagasy Wikipedia. Can anyone help please?

https://mg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibia

ThanksRegularuk 10:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Change "and" to "that" to help clarify examples
In the opening paragraph in the seventh sentence, please consider changing "and" to "that". The sentence in question follows: "They are superficially similar to lizards but, along with mammals and birds, reptiles are amniotes and do not require water bodies in which to breed." It would be more grammatically clear to say: "They are superficially similar to lizards but, along with mammals and birds, reptiles are amniotes that do not require water bodies in which to breed." I had to go back and read the sentence again to figure out what it was saying, because from my college studies 50 years ago, I knew that amphibians are not amniotes. Thanks! Linstrum (talk) 04:38, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

lead
Someone had tagged the lead as too long. I re-orged and created a short lead that summarizes the topic. I'm sure more details could go here, and I wouldn't be surprised if something's wrong, so please take a look. Remember: a lead should be able to stand alone as a concise summary of the page (WP:lead).

manbmnabmnsabnsbmnabMSN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.44.200.25 (talk) 15:00, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Beckjt.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:40, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

please remove unnecessary "thus" from intro paragraph
I don't have ten edits yet<3 Slotherworldly (talk) 15:05, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2022
I want to fix something it says reptiles, like lizards but along with mammals and birds, but birds are reptiles Asocos (talk) 00:50, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:22, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

English
Stage 1Oral Do research on amphibious Talk about how they are able to survive 41.114.232.0 (talk) 17:24, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Amphibia (TV series) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:18, 14 October 2022 (UTC)