Talk:Anatolia/Archive 1

Greek not ancient Greek
The word Ανατολή is used for thousends of years without interruption until today.It is used in every-day life, not as a literate term. Therefore I deleted the "ancient" as false.

To be european or not to be european, that is the question
European is an ambiguous term and is not the name of an ethnicity.
 * If someone said that the region of Ethiopia is populated by people of African ethnicities, or that Madagascar has a population partially of Asian/Austronesian origin, nobody would dispute that. But to say that "European" can actually refer to European ethnicities has somehow been warped during the 20th century into being perceived as a far-right concept... This is a double standard, which isn't being applied to other ethnic-spheres such as Native Americans, Africans, Polynesians, Chinese, Indians etc. Inuit don't stop being Inuit because of which side of the Bering Straight they're on, and the hundreds of millions of Semites don't stop being Semites depending on whether they're in Africa instead of Asia. Nobody would try to say that the Turkic peoples who live inside continental Europe aren't Turkic because of which side of the sea they're on.

a part of the European ethnic-sphere I agree: a part of the Persian Empire, those of Alexander and his successors, of Rome, the Eastern Roman (i.e. Byzantine) Empire, but never part of a "European ethnic-sphere" whatever an "ethnic-sphere" might be. Wetman 03:27, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

___

maybe history of Anatolia makes sense for the Classical period (which I doubt, I think its Europeanistic thinking, but never mind), but it simply doesn't fit for the prehistoric period. What about creating a page 'prehistory of Turkey'? - which is simply based on current territory, not on any cultural (can't see the 'ethnic') entity?

--Yak 19:32, Mar 10, 2004 (UTC)


 * I have no idea what you're trying to say. Besides, Turkey is a national entity created by Turkic colonialism; ancient Anatolia is in no way "prehistoric Turkey" any more than ancient North America is "prehistoric U.S.A.". Crusadeonilliteracy 23:18, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * There exists no "prehistoric Turkey", neither in Anatolia, nor anywhere else. First appearance of Turks in Anatolia is in the late 10th century BC. --Spryom 13:24, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Map
I think we should get another map. This one highlights Turkey, not Anatolia.


 * A change in image markup broke the display of the caption text. I've updated it. Jamesday 01:46, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Still need a map - one that shows the borders. --Singkong2005 11:09, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Europeanistic?
FYI: Eurocentric

medieval times?
"Today the inhabitants of Anatolia are mostly Turkish speakers, due to the conquest of Anatolia by Turkic peoples (and subsequent Islamification) in mediaeval times"

This is not true. The multiethnic character of Anatolia ended abruptly early in the 20th century. Anatolia was in ancient times Hellenic. After the battle of Mantzikert in 1071AD, the first Turks in significant numbers poured in. From that point on and until the Lausanne treaty in 1923, Anatolia was multiethnic, with Turks, Greeks, Armenians and Kurds in the east, being the main ethnic populations, along with others (like Assyrians, Jews, etc.) in smaller numbers. Proof of the multiethnic character of Anatolia are the turkish official population data of 1912. The present day "ethnically clean" turkic Anatolia is the result of the genocidal policies of Kemalism, with millions of victims, and after 1923, the exchange of populations provided by the Lausanne treaty. --Spryom 12:20, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is right. It is still true, however, that ultimately, it is due to the conquest, which happened in medieval times. But a statement hinting at what you say should be added, if possible phrased not to attract pov warriors (this is not the place to have discussions about the Armenian genocide). dab (&#5839;) 10:40, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You are not involved with the history nor the truth, you are just trying to push your so called genocide propoganda using Wiki. I have seen at least 4 posts from you about this, and you are still trying to inject genocide allegation in irrelevant topics.
 * It's not clear who you're talking to. Sign your entries if you want to discuss. It's a lot friendlier. --Spryom 08:46, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Anatolia/Popular etymology
The reference to a turkish etymology of "Anatolia" as Ana-dolu is not correct. The term "Anatolia" for this area is ancient, it is included in ancient Greek and Byzantine writings, long before the turkic tribes appeared in the area and is the only correct etymology. The Turkish etynology has been invented centuries after the invention of the term itself. I suggest it is removed.--Spryom 13:30, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I think calling the Turkish meaning of Anatolia as FALSE popular etymologic information is crude behaviour. As far as I know even Europe is not a Greek word and its Sumerian oriented. Greek tribes vere living as independent cities, expecting ordinary Greeks whose life and vision is limited to small ranges to give a name to all Asia-minor even without any map making knowledge is quite questionable. They weren't even aware of the borders of Anatolia, Anatolia was just like Earth to them. This is also just like expcting people in ancient times to give PLANET a name. As you know our planet is called in many languages as the word which is used for to GROUND.

But Turks arrived later so they had clear differentiation sense about Asia-minor. I think new comers the named the Anatolia.


 * It doesn't seem you understand European history and you're obviously not a European. Your arguments against Greek culture and history are so profoundly weak thet there's no point considering them whatsoever. --Spryom 08:13, 23 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Definition with exclusion is a well known concept. You can not define somewhere or someting if you don't have clear sense about something that is not comprised by it. You must have a reference.
 * I don't understand what you're saying. Sign your entries if you want to discuss. It's a lot friendlier. --Spryom 08:46, 25 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I believe that the article does not make crystal clear that Anadolu is not a real etymology but a a kind of retro-etymology ,a crude nationalistic attempt to establish historical ownership of the area. This comforms with the established official turkish history that want to portray pre-turkish civilisations in the area as in some way the ancestors of modern turks. There is no recognition that a cultural break occured after the arrival of turkic people in the area. On the other hand one must point out that no documented genocide of the people of Asia minor with the arrival of the turks exist and  that Turks were at the time semi-nomadic and few in numbers. We can only assume that the existing people in Anatolia either left or were turkised  rapidly in language and religion, severing their cultural ties with the past. Anyway i will like to see a clarification that by popular etymology the article means false etymology. As an answer to the anonymous commentator i can only say that it must be a very rare coincidence that the the Greek word for East that was used to describe a land east of Greece happens to also mean something complex in turkish like  "mother-fill" and that mother-fill is actually the correct term.Any ideas on possible harsher wording that will make things clearer?  --Aldourin 10:55, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I took the liberty and inserted the word "falsely" referring to the popular turkish etymology--Aldourin 09:46, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Ethnic Kurdish minority in Turkey
User:69.110.57.242 (doesn't seem like a registered user) changed the reference to a "kurdish minority" to "signinficant number of Kurds". I believe that this edit is not correct and is due to political motivation. Official Turkish policy is not to recognise the existence of an ethnic Kurdish minority, while there are several millions of ethnic Kurds in southeastern Turkey. Please User:69.110.57.242, give us some arguments on why you changed the kurdish minority to a number of Kurds, otherwise the page should be reverted. --Spryom 16:24, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I have reverted the page to the original reference of Kurds as an "ethnic and linguistic minority". Kurds are not Turks, they are a distinct nation that exists as a separate ethnic minority in Turkey, Iraq and Iran. They speak a different language, they have different customs. Their origins are ancient, and their separate ethnic and cultural identity are mentioned by Xenophon. The turkic tribes appeared in the kurdish lands only thousands of years later. --Spryom 14:17, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Link suggestions
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Genocide allegations are nonsense, based on opinion, not history
I presume that some person of probably Greek origin had written the basis of this article. Claiming that Turks had "genocided" or "mass murdered" i.e. Greeks, Armenians and Kurds during WW1, COMPLETELY NONSENSE.

If you read history (not that what you´re being taught in Greece, because it´s probably biased), you would realise, that in fact the Greeks are guilty of killing Turks and other moslem subjects of the Ottoman Empire. This is a fact, not an opinion. I suggest you read a very good book on this issue, namely "the Ottoman Turks" by Prof. Justin McCarthy. He is neutral, without bias and knows what he´s talking about.

Furthermore, to provide you with more accurate information, here are a few quotes based on reports of British diplomats during WW1 and Turkish War of Independence. After asterisque (*) you cand find the ID tag of the report, go look at the archives if you want to check:

--

14 FEBRUARY 1919 According to the report, which was sent by Admiral Richard Webb in Istanbul to A. J. Balfour, the Foreign Minister, Greeks entered Turkish villages and grabbed everything they wanted and harassed the Turkish women sexually. The report reads:

"Once, in order to entertain themselves, they opened fire on the muezzin, who was climbing up the minaret to recite the ezan. According to Admiral Webb, the behavior of the Greeks in Istanbul had not been anticipated . (*)"

(*) FO/4161/38713.

29 MARCH 1919

The passages from a confidential letter sent from businessman David Forbes in Izmir to Sir George Riddel:

"I witnessed very nasty events both in Izmir and in its environs. They were caused mostly by the Greek propaganda provoking the Turks. For the time being, it would be a grave mistake to give this territory to Greeks (*)."

(*) FO/4165/70511.

27 MAY 1919

The report given by General James Morgan, the English Consul:

"Izmir, 30 July 1919. Greek troops occupied Aydın on May 2. Then, the Moslems were arrested; imprisoned and they tore apart their fezzes. 48 Moslems were killed in Chalki and Karabina Stations in the West of Aydın by the Greeks (*)."

(*) FO/4220/118406.

17 JUNE 1919

MASSACRE COMMITTED IN MENEMEN

After Izmir was occupied by the Greeks, James Morgan reported to Admiral Calthorpe, the English High Commissioner in Istanbul in mid-June that a French military officer coming from Menemen on June 18 reported the killing by Greeks of 100 Turks in Menemen and that the Moslem residents of the town were in panic (1). An English military officer, who was incidentally in Menemen on 17 June 1919, told that the Greeks were responsible for all the incidents occurring there; and mentioned a massacre. At the same time, he pointed out the fact, as if reminding the following day of St. Bartholomew, that all Greeks had drawn a white cross on their doors. Evaluating the report about the massacre committed on 19 August 1919 in Menemen, C.E.S. Palmer from the English Foreign Ministry made the following observations:

"This is a most distressing incident. Turks could not do this to themselves even if they were blind. Any Turk knowing French history well or familiar with an English military officer could not do the same thing. In short, all these appear to be against Greeks (2)."

The massacre was committed on June 17. After being defeated, Greeks, killed on retreating a prominent Turk heading for the station. A Greek soldier bayoneted the district governor; and his corpse was left on the stairs of the district governorship building. Local Greek bandits massacred everyone they could get hold of during their journey, as they did in Izmir. Plundering and pillage are continuing. It is reckoned that 200 Turks were massacred. These events were reported to Admiral Calthorpe (3).

23 JUNE 1919

PLUNDERING IN EMİRKÖY AND KADIKÖY

In the report Major Hadkinson, the English Reserve Officer, sent to the High Commissioner in early September 1919, he touched upon the incidents of June 23 and told the following:

"After the armed clash taking place between the Greek troops and the Turkish civilians, Greeks repulsed Turks; then they plundered Emirköy and Kadıköy, the Turkish villages, and set them on fire."

25 JUNE 1919

MASSACRE IN AYDIN

"The Greek troops in Aydın opened fire on the Turkish villages on three sides. Many Turkish villages were plundered; after they beat their residents, they set the houses on fire. Then, they started pounding the Turkish houses. While the Turks were going out of their houses with their bodies on fire, the Greek soldiers opened fired on them with machine guns; and the civilian Greeks armed by the Greek soldiers shot them to death.

After occupying Aydın, Greeks arrested all the leading Turkish figures there. They conducted a house to house search under the pretext that they were looking for firearms. They harassed the women's quarters; insulted them and captured all the precious belongings of women.

Using machine guns, Greeks killed all the people they found, including some Christians. Moreover, they killed all the Moslems they captured to establish security. . They shot women and children to death inside their houses; and set houses on fire. They carried out all imaginable abominable atrocities while massacring innocent armless people.

According to the London Moslems' Association, the most brutal attack that can be made by a human occurred while four Turkish women were defending their houses with the guns of their husbands. These women were arrested, and impaled to death. In addition to the long list of losses, 9176 Turks were estimated to have been massacred (1)."

"While Turkish combatants were approaching, Greeks decided to vacate Aydın. The Greek population in Aydın went crazy; going to Greek Colonel Skinas, they pleaded with him to let them go together with the Greek soldiers. Greek civilians of 4-5 thousands crossed the line to reach safety. But, the remaining population was forced to return; they were threatened with bayonets to stop their evacuation.

According to Major Hadkinson, what Greek Colonel Skinas did upon their plead was to reject helping these miserable people. Furthermore, although the number of Greek soldiers was 3.000 and they were well armed, they drove back upon the forwarding 1.500 Turkish combatants.

Colonel Skinas was soon seized and imprisoned for 20 years. 40 Turks had been surrounded by the Greek military troops. They were called for four times to surrender. According to Major Hadkinson's report, these 40 Turks fought against the Greek soldiers; and they were all killed on the battlefield (2)."

In this context, Harold Armstrong related another incident ; Greek High Commissioner M. Canellopoulos in Istanbul went to visit the English High Commissioner. The English High Commissioner told the Greek Commissioner that he was concerned about the forwarding of the Greek forces and added that if they moved further, all Christians in the region could get killed ; thereupon, M. Canellopoulos said the following:

"I hope this spree of killing starts as soon as possible. Because we need a pretext to move forward for the time being (3)."

2 JULY 1919

About what the Turkish Delegation said of the massacre committed by Greeks, C.E.S. recorded the following on July 10:

"There is no use commenting further on the cruel acts of Greeks. In my opinion, they will move towards the interior lands of Anatolia; and as long as there are Greek military troops in Minor Asia, they will murder Moslems; and as long as there are Moslems there, these massacres will continue (*)."

(*) FO/4219/101446

4 JULY 1919

Major Hadkinson's report, Ayvalık (İzmir):

"Greeks commit massacres in Kasaba (Turgutlu), Izmir and Nazilli. Turkish gendarmes and police forces were disarmed; their equipment was stolen; and they were subjected to very harsh treatment. It became known through several reports that Turks were subjected to such violent acts as murder, thefts, rape etc. In the suburbs, lots of dismembered corpses, with their internal organs cut into pieces, were found. Greek battalions were patrolling the city.

Greeks searched the Turkish houses. Although they said that they had no guns; Greek soldiers beat them. Thinking that their doors were not easily broken, they went into their houses. Armed Greek soldiers started searching the houses. All the Turkish villages near Ayvalık were evacuated; the residents had fled their houses without even taking their belongings. There were about 20 families in Ayazmalı. They wereelderly people for the most part.. All of them were locked into a house and a watchman was assigned before the door of the house.

On the following days, a systematic plundering and pillage took place; most of the precious belongings were taken to Mytilene on boats. . The people of Mytilene came with their own boats and plundered the villages. Local Greeks who were there earlier did not allow them to plunder Ayvalık and Yeni Zahorili; but later participated in the plundering operation together with the Greek soldiers.

The 20 families who surrendered were plundered. All the Turks, including those who came from the neighboring villages to the village of Boklu Kaya to take shelter, send message from Ayazmalı to inform that they wanted to return their guns. Nonetheless, the Greeks, who were wearing khakis and followed by a band, had flags and trumpets in their hands; they, first of all, attacked the village; took all they caught and harassed the Turkish women sexually.

The Greek soldiers captured a large number of oxen used for ploughing; and cut them into pieces brutally. Before the vacation of the Eighth Greek Regiment, they killed 200 oxen used for ploughing according to Major Hadkinson's report; they told that they sacrificed these animals for the victory God bestowed on them (*)."

(*) For further information, see the file numbered FO/4221/124447 including a letter numbered 1512/M/1913 and dated 24 August 1919 which was sent by Admiral Webb in Istanbul to Lord Curzon.

11 AUGUST 1919

Report of General James Morgan from the English Consulate in Izmir:

"A French military officer named Durand assigned for intelligence work has just come from Soma. He reported that 700 Greek soldiers with their 5-7.5 cannons and machine guns started forwarding from Kınık and made an assault on the Turkish forces. The Greeks were forced to retreat in the direction of Bergama. However, they opened fire on Çengeller and Hamzalı villages before retreating and killed 15 - 20 Moslems, women and children included, and they even cut some corpses in to pieces (1)."

In his coded urgent telegram sent by Admiral Caltporpe to the Foreign Ministry, he reported that the Greeks in Hamzalı and Çengeller opened fire and killed 15 residents in Çengeller (2)

16 JULY 1919

Admiral Webb said the following in his letter he sent from Istanbul to Lord Curzon:

"Greeks caused anarchy during the occupation of Nazilla and insulted the public and officials there. They retreated at night on 20/21 June 1919 secretly; however, they took 38 people including Moslems, officials and local Greek people. After leaving the city, they killed the Moslems one by one (*)."

(*) For further information, see the file numbered FO/4223/107198 including a letter numbered 1227/M.1913 and dated 16 July 1919 which was sent by Admiral Webb in Istanbul to Lord Curzon.

26 JULY 1919

The text titled "Sultan's Speech" in the Morning Post Paper published in London reads:

"It is a mistake to drag the country to a war and thus to punish hundreds of innocent people. The Greek soldiers and bandits are murdering the Turkish population living in peace in Anatolia, driving them away from their homelands and raping them. Why are the Turkish people paying the price for the wrongs made by the Greek government? Greeks acted as the bloodiest barbars of past times; and they are still doing so. This must be brought to an end.

The violent acts perpetrated by Greeks must be brought to an end. Unless the Entente Powers do something to stop these, crises may emerge. The Greeks did their best to seriously tarnish the Turkish self-respect in the eyes of the Western World. They were kept under the protection of the Russian diplomacy for a very long time. They were supported and encouraged (*)."

(*) FO/4227/107802.

2 AUGUST 1919

James Morgan's report, Izmir:

"Before starting the clash in Papazlı, Greeks killed the residents of 5 villages in the environs and set the villages on fire. Turks were galvanized into action by these violent acts of terrorism and started launching attacks on Greeks (*)."

(*) FO/4220/111651,

25 AUGUST 1919

From Ernst E. Hunter, the Secretary General of the Independent Labor Party of London to the Foreign Ministry:

"We were instructed to obtain the following decision taken by the Independent Labor Party of London: 'The meeting protests the massacre and killings perpetrated in Minor Asia by the Greek (Hellene) soldiers. It was decided for the English Government to be called upon to negotiate with its allies; to drive the Greek soldiers away from Anatolia; and to adopt another method of occupation instead of killing, plundering and pillaging Turks '(*)"

(*) FO/4221/121512.

23 SEPTEMBER 1919

Major Harry C. Luke's report:

"According to the Greek authorities, this occupation contributed nothing to the image of Greece; but harmed it. It was stated in most of the writings in the pro-Venizelos press, Times magazine etc. that the cruel commission held Turks responsible for most of these acts; the report presented by the commission is a clear indication of Greek patience and moderation. It was also stated that a Greek scout was killed since he did not greet the Turkish flag. (However, in reality, the Greek scouts would show the leading Turks to the Greek soldiers, so that the Greek soldiers killed them both in Aydın and in other places.)

In spite of all these writings, the Greek official bodies admitted that the Greeks in Anatolia acted violently, and this made a bad impression on other states. Many subjects (the Ottoman Greek) objected to the annexation to Greece. The chauvinistic party led by the Orthodox Metropolitan of Izmir was an exception to it. Because, they supported the annexation. The developments showed that the Greeks may live under Turkish occupation; but Turks can never live under English patronage, especially under Greek rule (*)."

(*) FO/4222/49575.

4 OCTOBER 1919

Report of Captain Silley visiting Tire:

"It was revealed that Greek soldiers raped Moslem women in Anatolia. Furthermore, they pillaged Moslem villages. Many Turkish villages were attacked and ransacked by Greek soldiers. It transpired that 22 Turks had been killed in the vicinity of Tire in June - July (*)."

(*) FO/4222/141443.

26 NOVEMBER 1919

James Morgan's report, Izmir:

"The Moslem population in Ödemiş was not allowed to leave their residence without the written permission of Greek authorities. As a result of it, belongings of the people in Ödemiş were either stolen or damaged. The Moslem population in the two villages of the district of Nif were locked up in the villages, beaten, and tortured. The Greek soldiers raided the Turkish houses (*)."

(*) FO/4223/161876

25 FEBRUARY 1920 The confidential letter sent by Harold Francis to the Foreign Ministry reads:

" I had great interest in Turkey (not economic); and lived there for years. On behalf of my self and other Europeans; I urge you to oppose the decision of the allies who made a grave mistake by giving Aydın, Bursa and Izmir, the most important port of the Asian and European Turkey, to dishonorable Greeks.

Neither Izmir, nor Aydın or Bursa was densely populated by Greeks, even with the addition of the Ottoman Greeks to given population figure. There are 1.500.000 Moslems, 500.000 Orthodox Ottoman Greeks, 150.000 others such as Jews, Armenians, Europeans and other foreigners.

Because of this reason, Greeks do not have the right to govern a majority larger than themselves, be they a Moslem majority, a Christian majority or else, especially when they hate and look down on all of them.

Setting foot on Izmir in May, Greeks killed 700 unarmed Moslems. The Greek troops started occupying the cities with the permission of the allies; they damaged all the buildings, set Turkish villages on fire, and killed brutally the Moslem people who could not flee their homes. The Moslems killed were the most moderate and obedient villagers.

Not all parts of the lands were fit for agriculture. . Both the Moslem and Christian owners of these lands were industrious and clever. These lands can not be left to the brutal, bribe-giving Greek government simply because the Ottoman government was incompetent. Nobody can understand that.

Neither the Moslem Turks including a large number of Moslem Bulgarians nor the Christian population including Europeans, Levantines, Malteses (English citizens) can yield to the rule of a dishonorable and cruel group. Unless the Greek government is driven away from these lands, the civil war and violent incidents will continue.

Leaving Izmir to Greece is like giving Liverpool to Russia or Marseilles or Havre to Germany.

Note: When Germans offer more bribes, Greeks can promptly be our enemy (*)."

(*) FO/5132/E 626.

14 APRIL 1920

The letter that General Milne, the English Commander of the Occupying Army sent to the English High Commissioner

" The village of Sarıklı was badly damaged by Greeks; it was like a deserted village. Out of the one hundred houses, only one is habitable. The remaining were completely razed to the ground.. The Governor of Ödemiş said the following about the incidents which took place on the night of February 14:

Greek soldiers entered the town. They raped many women and girls; they wounded a Turk. Turkish prisoners in Ödemiş were often subjected to beatings. On March 4, they set on fire the village of Geneve near Ödemiş under the pretext of fire having been opened on them from that village the night before (*)."

(*) FO/5133/E 3866.

5 OCTOBER 1920

Venizelos sent a telegram to Lloyd George, the English Prime Minister demanding the following:

"In order to exterminate the nationalist Turkish forces near Ankara and Trabzon, a new campaign must be launched on Turkey; Turks must be driven away from Istanbul; a new state covering the region of the Straits must be founded in order to guarantee the sovereignty of the Straits; a separate state must be founded in Trabzon. Collaborating with Armenia, this state must constitute a strong obstacle to Islamism and particularly Russian Imperialism (*)."

(*) FO/5135/E 12594

11 DECEMBER 1920

The report which was sent by Sir Horace Rumbold, the English High Commissioner to Lord Curzon was about the disrespect shown to the Turkish Cemetery in Biga on 28 February 1921:

"According to the complaint made by the Ottoman Government; human excrement was applied to the doors of the cemetery in Biga on 11 December 1920 or so. Big, eye-catching columns adorning the walls of the cemetery were demolished; and the gravestones erected for the martyred soldiers were torn down violently.

The entire cemetery covered with excrement. Windows of the buildings were broken; smashed which left the place in ruins. . These are the violent acts committed by Greek soldiers. The cemetery unashamedly damaged still stands as a monument of violence for the entire world to grieve. (*)."

(*) FO/6568/E 2993.

3 JANUARY 1921

The text that Sir Horce Rumbold, the English High Commissaioner in Istanbul, sent to Lord Curzon:

"During the sweeping search condructed in order to disarm the local residents, they were subjected to harsh treatment, incidents of theft, plunder and pillage occurred. The number of such incidents is very high and all these acts of violence are identical. Greek terror is still continuing in Paşabahçeler, İncirköy, Site, Beykoz, Rodosto, Ayvacık, Amurik, Bursa, Tavşancık, Karamürsel (*)."

(*) FO/6551/E 813.

10 JANUARY 1921

James Morgan's report from Izmir:

"In Istanbul, there is a large number of Greek population who make much effort to the same end."

In reference to this report, D. G. Osborne from the English Foreign Ministry made the following comment: "As far as topographic and economic aspects are concerned, Greeks should leave Izmir and go to Istanbul. The Straits would be much safer with Turks on one side and Greeks on the other (*)."

(*) FO/6491/E 1301.

3 MARCH 1921

English Intelligence report No. 100:

"When King Constantin returned to Greece, pro-Venizelos people in Istanbul founded an organization called the National Defense Committee, an affiliate body of the Greek Politics Club. This organization had close relations with the Fener Patriarchate. It was led by Alexandros Voutiras and its editor was Neologos. Thanks to Neologos' influential contacts, this organization managed to establish close relations with lots of rich businessmen and journalists. The committee also included a military group consisting of several pro-Venizelos officers. The aim of the committee was to cause a moderate movement against the regime in Greece. In the committee, the issue of re-establishing the Byzantine Empire was discussed and approved. The most prominent figure of the committee was a military officer named Kondilis who had been a colonel in the Greek army."

On 22 March 1921, D. G. Osborne from the English Foreign Ministry said the following about this subject:

"I don't believe in the idea of re-founding the Byzantine Empire. I am of the opinion that even if a Greek attack does not result in an absolute victory, Greeks will always want to have Istanbul and Trabzon. (*)."

(*) FO/6507/E 3487. 17 MARCH 1921

The coded telegram received by James Morgan, Izmir:

"According to the complaint by the Turkish Government, Greeks issued false declarations stating that Greeks, as the occupying force, were very moderate. They claimed that these declarations had been signed and approved by the prominent Moslem figures in Anatolia. This was a false claim. In late February, the Greek officials in the internal parts of Anatolian lands were instructed to issue Moslem declarations expressing consistently the above-mentioned idea that the continuity of Greek rule in occupqied lands is wanted by the population in general.

All the means at hand were used to ensure such declarations. Some Turks were forced to sign such documents. Some were made drunk, some forced to sign an empty paper so that the declaration could be written afterwards. Greeks even told some of them that those documents were the permission papers for the supply of tobacco and bread.

Those trying to issue such declarations used torture as a means. In general, all Moslems forced to sign these documents were afraid to refuse signing them. Of course, not all of them happened at the same time (*)."

(*) FO/6491/E 3431.

21 MARCH 1921

In the letter that the London Moslems' Association sent to the English Prime Minister to reflect the suffering of the Moslem population in Asia Minor and the desperate struggle of the Turkish refugees expelled from Thrace on 12 March 1921; the following was stated:

"Those done in Yenice reveal the suffering of the Turkish people under Greek rule. It is heard every day that some Turkish leading figures and educated people are arrested on the grounds of baseless complaints. Some people are imprisoned without being put on trial and subjected to torture.

Buildings belonging to Turks are raided and Turkish women raped. There is almost no one who is not immune to being harassed one way or another when going to his distant farm. We witness or hear every day that a Turk was killed. In spite of all these, nothing was made stop the murderous Greeks.

Last week, I witnessed that four Turkish drivers were killed on the Menemen-Izmir way; I also heard that eight Turks were strangled in somewhere near Izmir. The point I want to state is that the Greek government or which so much praise wasz heaped is far removed from being a modern government.

In short, this government can be described as the government that has been organized particularly to kill or eliminate the Turks. Apparently, the Greeks' primary aim is to drive Turks away from Izmir. In addition to these aggressions that are often encountered, another important thing, which deeply saddened Turks, is that Moslem women and girls are forced to prostitution through all means.

Instead of carrying out their duties, Greek officers entertain themselves by forcing Turkish women to go out without their veils on. This committee wants to draw your attention to the plight of thousands of Thracian Moslems who were driven away from their historical homelands and died of hunger and poverty on the banks of the Istanbul Strait (*)."

(*) FO/6509/ E 4442.

1 APRIL 1921

The letter written by Bekir Sami Bey, the Foreign Minister of the Ankara Government to the English Government:

"It was demanded that attention be drawn to the oppressive policy practiced against the Moslem population by the Greek authorities in Thrace and Izmir;that talks be held to send to the region a joint commission of the allied governments and its allies.

In the letter sent to A. Rızo Rangabe, the Greek representative, in London on 7 April 1921, he was warned by Lancelot Oliphant, the official from the Greek Foreign Ministry. He also complained that he was forced to sign a document envisaging the killing of Turks so as to decrease the number of the Turkish population in the region.

In Western Thrace, 500 prominent Turks were arrested. Their belongings were captured or pillaged. Young Moslem women and children wanting to escape Greek tyranny committed suicide. Mosques were plundered and damaged.. Turkish prisoners were forced to work in macabre conditions or subjected to hunger (*)."

(*) FO/6491/ E 3900.

6 APRIL 1921

Touching up on the report issued by the Turkish Government about the massacre of Turks ; Reşit Pasha, the Ottoman Empire's representative in London, said the following in his diaries

"An investigation commission along with gendarmerie was sent to the region. On April 7, Sir Horace Rumbold from the English Foreign Ministry was asked to ensure it (*)."

(*) FO/6491/ E 4224

11 APRIL 1921

The coded telegram sent by Sir Harry Lamd, the English Ambassador in Izmir to Lord Curzon:

"It was reported that Greeks drove the Moslems in Afyon away to other locations. More than 10.000 Greek soldiers reached Afyon on April 1-9, one thousand of them are dispatched to the direction of Uşak each day. It is observed that the soldiers dispatched are not weakly disciplined. Their actions towards the Moslem population cause substantial hatred. These soldiers open fire on the minarets and harass women and children sexually on the streets. They are bloodthirsty. However, it is impossible to stop them. (*)."

(*) FO/6509/ E 4340

15 APRIL 1921

The telegram sent by Sir Harry Lamb in Izmir:

"Greek authorities not only allowed but also encouraged the spread of the inflated rumor that the Christian people in the occupation region were massacred. In order to entertain themselves, a group of soldiers who reached the Basmahane station, the first station of the town-bound train opened fire on the minarets of the Çorak Köprü Mosque near the station for several days. The upper part and roof of the mosque were badly damaged. The bullets passing by the mosque hit the Dervish lodge behind the mosque, and some hit the hilltop Moslem houses.

In other regions, they also opened fire on the muezzin reciting the ezan in the minaret, those running and the streets atop the hills, which caused lethal injuries.

On April 6, a bullet hit the head of a Turkish girl going to Yemişçarsısı; her skull was broken; and she died on the way to hospital. In Dolaplıkuyu, an 15-year old Turkish boy named Mustafa Halil was severely injured.

As a result of the random fire opened from a military convoy moving on the line of the town, a Greek soldier was severely injured, which caused a great panic in the region. From the moving train, the Greek soldiers opened fire on the Turks they could see. As far as the given reports were concerned, 12 persons were killed in the exchange of fire.

It was reported that many Moslems, including both men and women, were insulted, subjected to random treatment, warned on the streets of the city; fezzes of men and veils of women were torn apart. Even the children walking on streets were subjected to harsh treatment (*)."

(*) FO/6492/ E 5220

30 APRIL 1921

Lord Riddel added the letter Mr. Forbes wrote in Izmir to his confidential letter he wrote to R. J. Vansittart from the Foreign Ministry on 18 April 1921. In his letter, Mr. Forbes says the following:

"I regret to report that there is great chaos in the regions under Greek occupation. Greeks are not competent enough to govern Turks. I am of the opinion that people in England do not know the real face of Greeks. Our politicians are not aware of the situation here. It is foolish for Greeks to try to govern such people as Turks.

In the region of Nazilli, the torture of whipping left its place to shooting. There is anarchy all over the country. The latest contingent of troops from Greece are not well disciplined; they consider killing Turks as their duty.

For the time being, Turks are not allowed to go anywhere. Even the Greeks of Ottoman nationality are disturbed by the Greek soldiers coming from Greece. Those who witness what the Greek government did in Asia Minor can not find any fair application. Greeks are supported in all of their actions while Turks are deprived of all basic rights. Even those of English nationality are disregarded (*)."

(*) FO/6491/ E 3846

07 MAY 1921

The coded telegram sent by Sir Horace Rumbold in Istanbul to Lord Curzon:

"In the report received by French authorities, it is obvious that Greek bandits performed acts of violence and tyranny against the Moslem population in the regions of Yalova and Orhangazi (*)."

(*) FO/6511/ E 5375

15 MAY 1921

The report sent by Admiral de Robeck on behalf of the Investigation Committee to the English Maritime Ministry on 20.6.1921. It reports that Turkish villages are set on fire.

"Pazarköy is on fire. It was witnessed that Greek soldiers demolished the houses in Çatalköy. On May 15, Narlı and Karacaali were on fire. There are countless corpses on the coast. Bullets and knife wounds. Residents of Küçük Kumlar fear very much; therefore they are lying among the sheep on the coast in order to hide themselves. In order to calm them down, projectors were directed unto them. Kapaklı and Nazlı are on fire. Upper and Lower Kocadere were completely burned. People are in a miserable situation (*)."

(*) FO/6523/ E 8245

18 MAY 1921

In the interim report submitted by the Investigation Commission on Greek Tyranny to Sir Horace Rumbold from the English Foreign Ministry on 20.5.1921, the following is stated:

"Greek officers, soldiers and civilians raped Turkish Women in the environs of Esser village near Bozalfat and Avga during their duty lasting for nine months. They performed acts of pillage and aggression. For one month, the residents of the village have been living on the hills to feel more secure.

Witnesses: Ayşe, Kemal's wife, was raped. Alaeddin's wife was raped for twice. Wife of Ali Mustafa, the blacksmith, was raped for five times. An old man was killed in Karasöğüt. Greek soldiers seized oxen and carriages near Kandıra. Greek soldiers occupied several villages. Soldiers seized money, cattle and precious belongings of residents; and those opposing Greek soldiers were subjected to torture and beatings. Incidents of raping and killing take place very often.

Some villages were completely damaged. Among them were Mehterköy, Lazlar Köyü, Armakköy, Ömerağa Köyü and Sıraköy. Four men and two women were killed in Erekli. Mustafa İdris, İsa, Fatma and Fethiye are among them. 14 people were killed in Karadere. Last November, Greek soldiers seized the money and cattle of the residents in Erekli near Kandıra. They killed all the people suspected of hiding their money. 15 out of 20 houses were set on fire.

Some villages near Ahva were occupied by Greek detachments; they stormed the other villages in the fall of 1920 for the first time and in March 1921 for the second time. Using all their means of threat, resorting to violence, threat, beating etc., they gathered money and precious belongings in all the villages. Greek soldiers carried out acts of violence everywhere.

Hacı Mustafa Köy suffered the most. Seven men and one woman were killed and six women were raped. Kurufali and Ahva are among the suffering villages. A man named Salih was twice hanged from his feet forn a total two hours. They did the same in the villages of Şuhupli, Üzeyir and Kemal. Relatives of Nefsa, Emine and Fatma from Hacı Mustafa Köyü were killed. Halil Mehmet Hoca, their maternal uncle, was also killed.

A group of bandits, numbering 200, stormed some locations near Şile while going to Izmit. Katraros, commanding 20 of them wrought havoc almost in all the villages in this region and seized the precious belongings and the cattle of the villagers. Most of the residents were beaten; women were found hanged under the straw fire. Some were killed near the village; and some raped.

In Çubuklu near Beykoz, Greek troops killed a large number of people. The commission pulled the corpses out of the grave. It was observed that they were first shot to death, and then buried with their clothes on. They were all thrown into ditches. According to witnesses, there are more burned people than with those shot dead with a single bullet.

Upon the order given by Greek soldiers, 18 Turks were imprisoned in a dry underground cistern near the Greek headquarter in Çubuklu. These detainees were kept there until they bribed the Greek watchers. Most of them were killed afterwards."

This report was read aloud in the Foreign Ministry and recorded by Heathcote Smith on 2 June 1921.

"Shameful acts are perpetrated in southern Izmir. Greeks are directly responsible for the majority of them. Taking into consideration the calamities described above, it was decided that a protest demonstration be staged in London. The commission warned the English government that if it did not force the Greek government to take the required measures to punish those responsible for these acts of terrorism till June, it would publicize the findings (*)."

(*) FO/6514/ E 6204

19 MAY 1921

The coded telegram sent by Sir Horace Rumbold in Istanbul to Lord Curzon:

"I examined the commission's investigation report on the Izmit peninsula. The report proves that all the acts of terrorism such as killing, raping, pillage, plunder, torture etc. were perpetrated by Greek officers and soldiers. These murders of course date back to earlier times. The massacre committed in Çubuklu near Beykoz by Greek soldiers was proved with the report of the investigation committee.

Meanwhile, reports on the tyranny involving Greek troops in the Gömlek region are coming from General Frank. High Commissioner of the Alliance has been entrusted to take the panic-stricken Moslem people in the village of Kumlar 'Kızılay" to safety. Because, the Investigation committee is not sure the Greek military authorities protect them as required."

W. S. Edmons from the English Foreign Ministry says the following about the events taking place on May 24:

"The events happening in the region of Izmit, Yalova and Orhangazi are against Greeks. It is unforgivable that these events which happened near the Istanbul Strait, have been kept secret for months. (*)."

(*) FO/6513/ E 5848

28 MAY 1921

In his memoires, Reşit Pasha writes the following about Greek tyranny:

"Complaint about the Greek tyranny in Western Thrace, Yalova, Orhangazi, Gemli, Şile etc. Pillage and killings of people regardless of their age or sex. Raping women, subjecting children and the old to unbearable tortures. A. J. Toynbee and his spouse witness this tyranny personally."

8 JUNE 1921

The coded telegram sent by Lord Granvilli in Athens to Lord Curzon:

"This morning, I showed the Greek War Minister the telegram dated May 27 that was sent by the Manchester Guardian Paper's special correspondent in Yalova. I knew that this correspondent was reliable, sensible, and a lover of the Hellenism. He reported that Greek bandits led by the War Minister, Captain Papagrigoriou and Corporal Lambros carried out horrendous acts of terrorism; and, of course, they had to bear the consequences of their acts. (*)."

(*) FO/6516/ E 6622

11 JUNE 1921

The coded telegram sent by Lord Grancille to Lord Curzon:

"A special religious ceremony attended by the family of the King, high ranking government and parliamentary officials was held in the Cathedral of Athens. They prayed for the success of the Greek army. The Education Minister proposed that the King participate in the ceremony. He added the Emperors in Istanbul took the lead of their army and prayed this way (*)."

(*) FO/6517/ E 6703

13 JUNE 1921

The message from Lord Granville to Lord Curzon. Athens

"While leaving the church, the slogan "to Istanbul" was chanted for the King. After his departure, he issued a declaration. The declaration reads; "I am going there with the faith in God's help, exertion and ardor of my glorious army and the morale and power of the Hellenistic dream; because the army of my nation want this from me. (*)."

(*) FO/6517/ E 6703

15 JUNE 1921

The message from Lord Granville to Lord Curzon. Athens

"According to the press, King Constantine arrived in Izmir on June 12 and was welcomed with warm and joyful demonstrations In his message he prepared for the army, he said: 'Soldiers, we must dedicate ourselves to the historic mission assigned to you with great love for Greece that is unified and can not be disintegrated. We are just a means to this mission. Forward. The mission is awaiting you. Your king is always with you. He is on the lead and forwarding towards the goal your homeland has assigned to you. The Great Lord protects us in this war and lead our just war to success.' (*)."

(*) FO/6519/ E 7186

16 JUNE 1921

Motion in the House of Commons. Deputy Aubrey Herbert said to the Prime Minister; "Troops of the 10th Division commanded by Gehenay Yeonardopoulos killed 5500 innocent women, men and children out of 7000 people in the region of Yalova near the Sea of Marmara," and asked him the following question:

"This event happened in a location one hour from Istanbul. I wonder whether the Government of His Majesty is informed of this event?"

Answering this question on behalf of the Prime Minister, Mr. Chamberlain told the following:

"According to the report the Commission of Allied Forces wanted conveyed to the English Government, some of those told actually happened in the region. However, the real figures have not been confirmed yet."

Mr. Herbert made the following evaluation:

"If the English Government had genuinely wanted to be informed, would this information have been obtained through our Embassy or the Naval authorities? I wonder whether the complaints made about the killings of 5500 unarmed persons in the region excluded from the war harm your prestige? It may be thought that we had these done (*)"

(*) FO/6518/ E 6959

23 JUNE 1921

A declaration in the Islamic News Paper dated 16.6.1921 that is published London reads:

"In order to protest against Greek tyranny taking as target Turkish women and children living in villages in the occupied territories of Turkey, an open air meeting led by Lord Lemingston is going to be held at 16.30 on Saturday, June 23. Among those to deliver a speech are Colonel Aubrey Herbert (Deputy) and Walter Guinness (Deputy) (*)."

(*) FO/6526/ E 9349

28 JUNE 1921

The coded telegram Frank Rattingan, the English High Deputy Commissary, to Lord Curzon:

"Yesterday evening, Greeks vacated Izmit. According to the reports, the city is on fire. It is supposed that Greeks started the fire while they were leaving the city. It was reported that a few Turks were killed by Armenians in Izmit. Acts of terrorism were carried out against both Armenians and Turks. All the Greeks left the city under the protection of Greek forces. (*)."

(*) FO/6520/ E 7377 1 JULY 1921

The coded telegram sent from Frank Rattingan to Lord Curzon, Istanbul:

"According to General Frank's report; Greek divisions are moving back to Yalova; they are setting on fire all the villages along the coast. The Investigation Commission warmly welcomed by nationalists carried out examinations in Izmir. No evidence as to the massacre of Christians was found. Officials of the American Hospital and French religious officers stated clearly their contentment with the discipline and behavior of Kemalists.

The Greek tyranny including killings, torture, mutilation and pillage was revealed by pulling the corpses out of the grave. According to the statements made, these acts of violence were perpetrated by drunk and undisciplined Greek soldiers during the Greek occupation with the assistance of Christian and Armenian bandits, which is confirmed by Americans. The commission finds the acts of retreating Greeks shameful for a modern nation. (*)" It was demanded through Lord Granville's cipher dated 5.7.1921 and numbered 204 that the above-mentioned points be conveyed to the Greek government and Greek soldiers be protested for their acts.

(*) FO/6521/ E 7550

18 AUGUST 1921

The coded telegram sent by Sir Horace Rumbold to Lord Curzon, Istanbul:

"In the letter that Manchesten Guardian Paper's Correspondent, Mr. Toynbee sent to a high ranking English officer here, he said, "The Greek army kill the Moslem people systematically in the regions occupied. of late "

In Toynbee's opinion, Harry Lamb in Izmir is a leading opponent of Greece. According to what E.G.F. Adam informed on 20.08.1921, Mr. Toynbee may have obtained the information from Turkish sources. Nonetheless, it is worried that the events in the region of Gömelek, Yalova actually happened (*)."

(*) FO/6526/ E 9474

23 AUGUST 1921

The private letter R. De Condelle, one of the railway authorities in Aydın, wrote to Sir Eyre Crowe, one of the officials of the English Foreign Ministry, Izmir:

"The reality is that Greeks may live under Turkish rule; but Turks can never live under Greek rule. For instance, the emigrants from the island of Crete, even the Greeks residing in Izmir were not pleased with the Greek army's arrival Izmir because of several reasons. Nonetheless, Venizelos managed to convince those in Paris that those first pleased with the landing of Greeks in Izmir were the Greeks residing in Izmir (*)."

(*) FO/6474/ E 10078

11 SEPTEMBER 1921

The coded telegram from Sir Harry Lamb to Lord Curzon, Izmir:

"According to a highly credible report I received, Greek soldiers set on fire about 50 villages in Tire and Ödemiş and in the neighbourhood of Aydın. Most of the residents had to leave their houses. They did not commit a massacre ; only a few people were killed and lots of cattle were destroyed (*)."

(*) FO/6529/ E 10224

20 SEPTEMBER 1921

Mrs. Arnold Toynbee publicized Greek tyranny in the occupied lands through a declaration; however, Toynbee from the English Ministry was charged with being the supporter of Turks (*).

(*) FO/6557/ E 10550

20 SEPTEMBER 1921

The coded telegram from Sin Haryy Lamb to Lord Curzon, Izmir:

"It is informed that several villages were set on fire in the regions of Bayındır and Ödemiş and the residents fled, trying to find shelter in the city. For example, village of Kızılca was set on fire in retaliation for the killing of a gendarme last week (*)."

(*) FO/6530/ E 10923

23 OCTOBER 1921

Chicher, the Soviet Foreign Minister sent a note to the English Foreign Ministry through M. Krassin, the Soviet envoy in London; and he wanted attention drawn to Greek tyranny and a protest note issued to the Greek Government. This note was recorded as follows by the English Foreign Ministry:

"These are not Chicher's business. I can not meet this demand. Curzon (*)."

(*) FO/6534/ E 12140

06 MARCH 1922

The report from Sir Horace Rumbold to Lord Curzon, Istanbul:

"The following are the passages quoted from the private letter coming to Sir Haryy Lamb. These were written after the talks with the Greek Commissioner :

"I wrote similar things to this before. But I am very worried now. Greeks have understood that they have to vacate here; and they decided to leave a desert behind . They do not care about who will suffer from this. As long as there is time and means, they will certainly take everything they seize to Greece. Turks will be pillaged; their homeland, their houses will be set on fire. All the belongings of foreigners will be seized, and they will be left to their own. Since Greeks have believed up to now that we have to help them, they did not damage the belongings of the English. But they have seen we have turned our back on them; which has made them ready to bite us just as they did the others. " Sir Harry Lamb discussed with the Greek high commissioner the issue of damaged Turkish villages and destroyed mosques. The Greek Commissioner while saying that he had not been informed of these atrocities on the one hand, stressed, on the other , the necessity of inflicting such damage. He even said that incidents of this kind are inevitable while an army retreats, adding that civilian authorities should hold themselves responsible for vetoing these incidents as far as political and humane thoughts were concerned.

As long as the allies do not ensure the safe retreat of Greeks, the destiny of Anatolia will be blood and fire (*)."

(*) FO/7876/ E 2591

06 JUNE 1922

The headlines in the English press about Greek tyranny were as follows (*).

Daily Telegraph: "Greeks in Asia Minor Claim lives ofTurks."

Westminster Paper dated 7.6.1922: "War in Anatolia and Greek Barbarism."

Manchester Guardian dated 10 June 1922: "Stormed villages in Anatolia. Tyranny of Retreating Greeks, Report by the Temporary American Workers"

(*) FO/7879/ E 5740

25 JULY 1922

In his letter to Lord Curzon, M. I. Ispahani, Secretary of the London Moslems Association, he informed of the report written in English and French by M. Raymond Aine, the French Architect. In this report, damage caused by the Greek occupying forces were calculated in the French currency. This was recorded by G. W. Rendel from the English Foreign Ministry on July 23 as follows:

"Violent acts of Greeks against Islamic art can not be concealed. Prince Andrew, once, had his house built with the gravestones of Moslems in Salonica."

A booklet was attached to the above-mentioned letter. The title of this book was "New-Hellenistic Civilization in the Minor Asia - Demolishing Mosques, Tombs etc. in Bursa and Izmit (*)."

(*) FO/7880/ E 5453; Le Monde III ustre No. 3297, 26.2.1921, explanations about the damage.

15 SEPTEMBER 1922

The coded telegram from the Commander of the English Occupation Armies to the War Department, Istanbul:

"An officer was assigned to observe Greeks' evacuation from Bursa by the Allies' Investigation Commission. The officer reported that Greek military troops set Greek villages on fire and opened fire on them; he also reported about Greek tyranny. Furthermore, Greeks damaged the churches and houses of Christians.

W. S. Edmond from the English Foreign Ministry made the following comment on the report on September 19:

"It is very difficult to believe that Greeks deliberately set alight the churches and houses of Christians. (*)"

(*) FO/7891/ E 9679

14 NOVEMBER 1922

The secret report from the Director of the English Military Intelligence to the English Foreign Ministry:

"After the fire in Izmir, additional information on Greek and Turkish tyranny was sent. The commissions of Allies conducted investigations in Thrace in addition to the cases of execution, killing, arson and pillage and the findings are as follows:

The city walls (on Muratlı and Çorlu), villages of Çakmak and Suluf were set on fire by Christian residents. Greek infantrymen took part in the acts of ransacking perpetrated in this village. Kariş and Diren were set on fire; some people were executed or killed. Acts of execution, exile and pillage were perpetrated in Çorlu, Türkbey and Uzunköprü. 17 men were taken hostage.

Greeks seized a lot of belongings and cattle. 15 000 Drahmis were extorted with the threat of setting the villages on fire. The mosque in Samonköy was damaged. Systematic acts of pillage were perpetrated in Ulaman by Greek soldiers and refugees. All the people in the mosque in Türkmen Çiftliği were shot to death on October 18. Some were beaten; some tortured and similar incidents were reported in Boztepe (*)."

(*) FO/7858/ E 12761

(this unsigned entry was posted by User:Pamir.)


 * Welcome to the wonderful world of propaganda. Writing history is *not* simply quoting the bits of material that supports one's own view while ignoring all the rest. Writing history has to do with reading *all* of the relevant material and then reaching a conclusion based upon the sum of that material. --Valentinian 22:49, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Amazing effort, pittiful result.

Firstly, most of the above quotes belong to lower rank officers and foreigners living in Anatolia and harmed by the change in government.I do not really see some official papers signed by a highest rank officer and most importantly by a minister, a diplomat or a High Commisioner. Pardon me to not have the patience to read all the quotes presented here but from the little I manged to read this is the POV which I did derive. Secondly, I think your conclusion is based on a totally mistaken basis in the begining. A genocide is something organised, usually from a nation's government (not some furious soldiers) against another nation not necessarily during a war period, and happens in cold blood and huge numbers, following a specific method/pattern of extermination over a prolonged period of years. What the above quotes show is a totally different situation. These mention some reports for Greek violence during the heat of battle against a small number of civilians in scattered villages all over anatolia for a period of 2-3 years during the Greco-Turkish war. While these incidents are not honoring the Greek Arms in any way, they do not in any case constitute a policy of extermination/genocide. Allow me this example; By concluding the above is like saying that the Allied NATO Forces entering the Iraqi region and procceeding to some unjustifiable attrocities, over the local population (which may belong to the local Islamic fatria btw) is the equivalent of a NATO genocide policy against the people of Iraq. My friend I will put it as simple as possible "Wake Up!". Turks are the only People on this Earth commited so many crimes in such a small period of time (Turkish history spans less than 600 years of "civilised" being, not including the life in the mongolian steppes ofcourse) with such a little offering in the world culture and society. It is rather funny to designate genocidal policies to the GREEKS. As you may know the Greeks in their 3000+ history, many times being in a role of total world dominance, had the "oportunity" to inflict extermination policies upon numerous of foreign peoples, yet they never, ever did so. Either you like it or not The Armenian Genocide, The Hellenic Genocide, The Pontic Greek Genocide and the ongoing Kurdish Genocide, are well known in the Western world (which by the way is a zero-possibility game for you to participate in, if you continue acting like this) and characterise your nation. It would be more honest and civilised stance to finally ACCEPT your past than trying to erase it so brutaly. Finally remember, the Germans also had a bad past period of commiting a Genocide against the Jews in Europe. The difference is that they had the honesty to ACCEPT so and ask for a PARDON by the Global society and History itself. Astavrou 07:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Timeline shows Romans as Christian
Rome was not officially Christian till Constantine. Christ was not even born till well into the time depicted on the timeline. Before Constantine, the Religion was the state religion of Rome. I can not easily tell how to edit the timeline to show the correct context for Roman Greece but it should be the tan color for 'Other'. See the linked article on Roman Greece. 150.215.80.44 20:15, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

It is fixed. If there is another category that belongs to one or more states, please drop a text.--tommiks 20:40, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Milestones in the history,
if you drop a date and a web page that we integrate a link in the time table for the milestones in Anatolian history... --tommiks 20:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC) A) battle of Kades B) first coin C) Fall of Istanbul D) Rise of nationalism

Ancient Deities
Who were the earliest known deities in Anatolia? In particular, was the mother goddess ever named? Names seem to be missing from this article, though are included in other discussions of ancient societies.

I hope this is the proper forum for a question.

Thanks much, dBndbit@verizon.net

Anatolian Plateau
Anatolian Plateau currently redirects here. I suggest making a subsection called Anatolian Plateau . As I understand it, Anatolia is sometimes used to refer to the plateau; the plateau occupies about half of Anatolia; there was a Byzantine thema called Anatolikon... and there's other info in this article which is specifically relevant to the plateau. --Singkong2005 11:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * As long as one doesn't cannibalize this article in order to patch together a fragmentary one, substituting an article Anatolian Plateau for the present redirect would be a step forward for the reader. You might copy relevant material from this article (without deleting it here, of course) and build upon that base, with the emphasis on geology, I figure. You'd link to it by adding it to the header "Main article, see Geography of Turkey, Anatolian Plateau." Makes sense? --Wetman 22:25, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Sumer and Niagra Falls?
Someone wrote that Anatolia exists as a bridge between Sumer and Niagra Falls. I haven't read through the rest of the article in detail but it looks like the page received some vandalism!

- Sukru N. Kaymakcalan

Reactions
Kudos and disappointment-- What is here, is great; but was very disappointed that there is no section giving a synopsis of the various city states, and civilizations akin to the timeline. Many ancient civilizations had their heyday on the world stage in classical times and occupied a part of the region, and to not survey such cities and other larger kingdoms (e.g. the hitites) that occupied the region with a summary paragraph or two is a crime. Further, such references as Troy (roman numeral, various) need some explaination.

OTOH, the geography section is masterful, though at times a tad obtuse using terms or references that have not been introduced here and there, but all in all, worthy of praise! A special map deliniating plains, arable regions, hills, and mountains would be a good addition. Best regards // Fra nkB 16:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)