Talk:Ancient music

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2020 and 20 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zport20.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
Is this article abt music or writing...I think there should not be so much abt when and where writing evolved. Musical evolution has been largely independent of musical notation.

From User talk:Peak
Hi. How does the following contradict itself? Thanks. Hyacinth 06:36, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * "Ancient music is music after prehistoric music. In European musical historiography (see music history), the era of ancient music began in 1500 BCE, ended in 476 CE, and was followed by the Early music era of European classical music. Ancient music is monophonic."
 * The first sentence of an article generally gives some kind of definition, and in this context your version implies that even contemporary music would be classified as "ancient music". The last sentence seems to be in accordance with musicology. Please note that, in my opinion, the first sentence (whether in its revised form or not) is very awkward; in fact I was hoping that an expert in musical historiography would step in to rewrite the entire paragraph. Thanks for your patience. Peak 05:27, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I thought you might have responded here. Do you like to keep conversation "threads" in one place? If this is so, or otherwise, would you mind if we moved this conversation to Talk:Ancient music?


 * Since you started the conversation here, I left it here. Please feel free to move it. Peak

I do not see how my version (above) would imply that ancient music may be contemporary.
 * If your version is taken as a definition, it would imply that all music after prehistoric music is ancient music. Peak

I don't see how this can even be implied, its ancient.
 * I trust you are not suggesting that a circular definition here ("Ancient music is music that is ancient") would be better!

I attempted to alleviate the sentence by moving the statement, "Ancient music is monophonic," out of a long convoluted sentence. I do not think that this is even accurate as polyphony certainly existed before Ancient music and it seems strange that an era would include only certain textures (though they usually only include certain regions and classes). Do you have a source?


 * One source is Wikipedia: History_of_music, but I am no expert on musical historiography. All I ask is that what appears here is at least plausible :-) Peak

If it was accurate before, how is it inaccurate in my version? Hyacinth 03:31, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * The difference between definition and description sometimes gets lost because of the word "is". Compare "Biology is the science of life" (definition) with "Biology is by many accounts the most difficult science" (description). Peak 06:32, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

User:Eleassar777, please explain that the cultures at those locations at those early dates where literate in the article (A reader would need go to Ur, "Iraq" to find out that is was Mesopotamia). Also add some version of this information to Music of Mesopotamia. Hyacinth 22:16, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, I will. However, why haven't you done it? --Eleassar777 22:30, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Forgive my short tone, I was at work, where private use of computers is not allowed, and forgot a "you could" which would have turned my last demand into a request.
 * I have not added this information because I'm not either presumably infatuated with or currently reading a book about the oldest instruments and so I can't. Hyacinth 03:25, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Question
The first examples of (structured linear) writing have been found in the lower Danube Valley and date from around 5000 BC. The first examples of Sumerian writing in Mesopotamia date from around 4000 BC. So if when writing develops, the music is not prehistoric anymore, how can it be that the ancient music is the one that occurs only after 1500 BC? --Eleassar777 22:44, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * As you will see above, my mistake. However, the article does need to specify when prehistory ended in Mesopotamia and you appear more than qualified to add that information. I obviously, am not. Hyacinth 03:27, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

earliest song evar
Where can I hear what the earliest sound ever written down or preserved sounded like?--Sonjaaa 06:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The Delphic Hymns are one candidate for this title. —Keenan Pepper 04:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

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Addition of Ancient Music Origins
Hello! I added a section on "ancient music origins" that I think could lend more general knowledge to the category of "ancient music." I took a look at the prehistoric music article and I liked how it contains sections on "Origins of prehistoric instruments" and "Archaeoacoustic methodology" before it begins separating out the different regions of the world and the respective contributions to prehistoric music. This ancient music origins section might go more in-depth over the idea of "characterizations of basic notes and scales" seen in the lead along with touching more on the idea of written musical notation and transmission (as opposed to oral music transmission) which seems to be the mark of the shift from prehistoric to ancient. I also believe that this will offer a means to expand upon the lead a little more. I have started the section, but would appreciate assistance in crafting it either through credible additions or through reliable sources that could be useful. Thanks! Zport20 (talk) 16:22, 4 March 2020 (UTC)