Talk:Anno Birkin

Untitled
Not sure if i'm doing this "talk" thing right, but i just learned. I added it again, because I thought it had been left out by me on accident. I see what you mean about it sounding like an obituary, but then again in reading wiki articles about other writers and muscians, their character is often mentioned, as that's a vital part to the work they've done. Anno's compassion was very much a part of his words and music, and pertain to the legacy further on in the page (such as ANno's Africa). Just to be clear, I used official quotes from other articles, not my own opinion or personal to me (i never met these people, much less Anno Birkin).


 * The pillars of Wikipedia include Neutral Point of View and Verifiability. Comments by his father about his childhood fall outside of that.  NPOV goes so far as to require that, if someone who hated the person read the article, he would at least have to agree that the statements included are true, so talking about what a good person the subject was is out of place.  The fact that nearly all of the "sources" are his own web site (now maintained by his family) fails to live up to the requirement that all information (other than obviously undisputed facts like date of birth) come from independent reliable sources rather than from the subject, or his family and friends. - JasonAQuest (talk) 16:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the sources are not his own website! I only found the links there to the articles from several other websites. These articles were not written by family or friends. But I'll look through this page and see what seems to need editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by H j grippo (talk • contribs) 17:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I understand why his childhood information was questioned and edited, but why was his music information edited? It was not biased, and simply stated what happened! It's easy to get pissed off here when things like tv shows can have pages upon pages of words, or celebirties are ongoing in details. But someone like this, though he is changing the world (and that's not over the top...children's very lives (eg Anno's Africa) is not over the top) is so limited in what an article can say. Though i do agree with the neutral style of this place. I just didn't want to see any information mauled.


 * Please read Neutral Point of View and Verifiability. Reading a sampling of other biographical articles for an idea of what's kind of tone and content is considered appropriate would also help. - JasonAQuest (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

All right, Thank you. I understand what everyone is saying. But I deleated the warnings at the top so no further info is taken off just on reaction = It seems in standard condition now, except for the citation edits which i will take care of as i can. The character discriptions of Anno I see being edited, though there are biographies on wikipedia that discuss the emotional ways of people, and the quotes are opinions of those who knew them. Perhaps if Anno Birkin had been an assassin, such information would be allowable! I still don't grasp the edits on his music and death section while other articles can go on and on about things much more trivial than that. But it's gonna be an annoying game of post-and-cut-and-repost which me and some editors were playing the other day, so i'll stop, and i hope it can now be left, though there's millions of hands, and pleanty of heads with information and ideas to make/change it in the future. That's the thing about wikipedia, and I agree with the Neutral Point of View very, very much so. That lets people have the much needed unopinionated road signs, and they choose were to go with the information. That's what it's for. But I don't always see the limitations put on this article in just a few hours made to others, having been up for God knows how long. Thanks for all the help in editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by H j grippo (talk • contribs) 16:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I trimmed information out because it wasn't particularly encyclopedic and tended to be overly personal. For example, his activities the day before and the sequence of events the night of his death was almost purely drama; we don't particularly need to know who was sitting where in the vehicle, or why one of his bandmates wasn't with them.  Just because other articles tend to eulogize their subjects too much doesn't mean this one should too. - JasonAQuest (talk) 16:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

As to your trimming for encyclopedic sake, i quite understand and agree. Citations and such i see have been/are being taken care by Laurenticwave. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onlybegottenson88 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Am I the only person who has come across this page who feels that its very existence seems to contradict Wikipedia's guidelines...? - "Anno" who! - If Wikipedia contributors are going to dedicate a 700 word article to every Thomas Chatterton wannabe then there is quite a way to go... I must insist that those who have developed this article at the very least reduce it to a stub - though really it should be removed. - If this is not done I will have to alert the Wikipedia monitors quickly, lest every 'Byronic raconteur' from Hoxton (by way of middle-England) decides that they too are worthy of Wikipedia recognition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guyaubreydevito (talk • contribs) 17:16, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * If you feel strongly that the subject of this article doesn't meet Wikipedia's standards of notability you are welcome to nominate the article for deletion on those grounds. But between the general notability of his family, the (admittedly minor) media coverage he received while he was alive, and the activities continued in his name since his death, I am pretty sure that his notability has been established.  With that said, I agree that the article has some issues with objectivity and goes into more detail than is called for, but that can be addressed without a haughty demand to throw it out. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 22:43, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Objectivity, please
This young man may have written a bunch of poems, but that does not IN ANY WAY mean that he was a poet. Matthew Arnold was an English poet. Emily Jane Brontë was an English poet. William Black was an English poet. Anno Birkin may have been English, and he may have written a bunch of poems, but he was a poet only as much as Carlos -my greengrocer- is a poet. This is meant to be an encyclopedia. Please, try to be objective. 81.99.193.239 (talk) 03:55, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Unreasonably Large Photographs
These two photographs -"Anno Birkin aged 17" and "Passport photo taken in June 2001"- are unreasonably large files. The one with the band members seems to be of a more normal size. However, it seems to be absurd -if not grotesque- to have three images of this young man on wikipedia, when so many articles more deserving of a place in an encyclopedia have none. 81.99.193.239 (talk) 21:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Why does it matter how large the files are? It's not as if these files are preventing other files for other articles from being uploaded.  As long as there's no copyright/fair-use restriction on a particular image, higher resolution files are better then lower resolution. - Jason A. Quest (talk) 22:27, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, let's pretend that for some reason their size does not matter. Regardless, only one photograph of Mr Birkin is necessary, the other one is completely redundant. And no images of Kicks Joy Darkness are needed, as the cultural relevance of the aforementioned band is nil. This band and this person have had no impact whatsoever in the humanities, and this is meant to be an encyclopedia, not a myspace page. 82.35.238.71 (talk) 19:20, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

To say that 'this band and this person have had no impact whatsoever in the humanities' merely suggests your own ignorance and lack of research. Granted, KJD may not be a mainstream cultural touchstone but there are plenty of fans producing music and poetry inspired by Anno and his band. A quick Google revealed some strong examples: an interview with young band The Cold Pistols ("But their inspiration may come from other sources like poetry. ‘For I Am Youth’ is “about a poem by Anno Birkin.” It focuses on a “line in one of his poems and people we know who lie about a lot of things."); Hero Melia, a finalist in Sky's 'Must Be The Music' ("Heaven’s Ship is about loss, inspired after hearing Anno Birkin’s mum talk about her son’s death"); Ashley White, a contributor to online poetry magazine Sentinel ("a 19 year-old man from Manchester, England. His poem has been anthologised in Colours of Life (2004). He tries to write organic and natural prose with a quirkiness and dry English wit. He is influenced by Carol Ann Duffy and Anno Birkin"). That's not including musical tributes from more well-known artists such as Molly Nyman and Crispian Mills. Besides, your unfortunate choice of words in saying that Birkin has made no impact in the 'humanities' serves only to undermine your own argument yet further. The charity work carried on in his name that directly affects the lives of desperately deprived children in the Kenyan slums is firm evidence that his legacy in the humanities is not in vain. Looking at the word 'humanities' in the Oxford Dictionary, it is placed as a third subset of 'humanity', with the first two definitions as 1) human beings collectively and 2) the quality of being humane; benevolence. Thirdly comes humanities, 'learning concerned with human culture, especially literature, history, art, music and philosophy'. Surely even you must admit that the work carried on in Anno's name and his own posthumously published writing and music has covered all three of those grounds. I would go one step further and suggest that Romantic poetry - and don't forget that in the reviews by Professor Welch and Telegraph journalist Tom Payne Birkin is most frequently compared to the Romantic poets - and 'the quality of being humane, benevolent' are very often interlinked. Take William Blake's concern for exploited child labourers in 'Songs of Innocence and Experience', or Percy Bysshe Shelley's fears for the passing of an illiterate potential 'rustic Milton' in Queen Mab. An overlap between the etymology of humanity/humanities is not restricted to mere words but will often overflow to real life too. The evidence of his extremely successful book sales, record of inspiring young performers and the work of Anno's Africa carried out in his name thoroughly invalidate your claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.111.44.1 (talk) 01:58, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Notability
This is a tribute page, not on an obscure person but a non-person (for wikipedia's sake). I think he should be deleted. Boils (talk) 19:05, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Although the article was initially a "tribute" page, I believe the subject is notable enough to support an article. The charity founded in his name, the documentary coverage by the BBC, and the other references are sufficient to establish that. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 02:26, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

He's here because he was posh. Obviously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikey C (talk • contribs) 03:17, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

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