Talk:Apocalypse Now/Archive 1

Themes
I don't think Willard "murders... in cold blood" the girl on the sampan - I think she was mortally wounded - it appears that she's shot with at least 3 or 4 rounds. I think Willard was putting her out of her misery. Who agrees? 68.8.55.55 11:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That whole section has been tagged for being a personal essay for a long time, and has a lot of unsourced claims (I don't think any of them are sourced, actually), and now people are disagreeing with stuff on it... I went ahead and removed the section -- if someone disagrees with that, let's talk about it here. Eeblefish 03:15, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I took it that he was finishing her off so that they wouldn't have any further ties (considering their mission is rather illeagal to begin with). No one would know it was they who killed the entire family, and no one would be following them or holding them for violations of the ROE. D Boland 19:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Jarhead
pretty sure jarhead has a scene with apocalypse now in it

Replaced the description of Mr Coppola as suicidal with temperamental. Surely a more accurate reflection.. sjc

Warning: Reading this will spoil the entire movie. In the film, Martin Sheen has been commanded to bring back Colonel Kurtz from the dense Vietnam jungle, played by Marlon Brando. As he makes his journey there, he sees scenes of violence and insanity, such as a young Laurence Fishburne (little Larry Fishburne) mow down a Vietnamese fishing boat. He also sees the darndest things, like Larry Fishburne dancing to Satisfaction on the tip of their boat, and dudes surfing while battles were going on. He makes it to where Kurtz has settled down. He listens to Kurtz' crazy rants and ponders. He eventually hacks Kurtz apart with a machete. "Mistah Kurtz, he dead".

Killer film about the Vietnam war directed by Francis Ford Coppola and starring Martin Sheen, Robert Duvall, Marlon Brando and Dennis Hopper.

Practically a hallucinogenic trip, and Hopper's performance is a trip in itself.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

The film is based on Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness", which also lends it's name to the film of the making of apocalypse now: "Hearts of Darkness".

Just as freaky and trippy as the film itself, if not more.


 * Halucinogens used by the soldiers during war plus several other factors (such as the dubious nature of the "domino effect", wich was one of the reassons why America went to war) led to Viet Nam being one of the most complicated wars in american history (so far, the only counted defeat for america). All that is very well accounted in Apocalipse Now, perhaps one of the most faithful adaptations of the Nam war. Yet, it was criticized for the same issue, as it was one of the first Viet Nam movies to show up, critics were specting a movie about Viet Nam, not about Colonel Kurtz or about a poetical Journey into darkness. Years later, Platoon came up, widely praised for giving importance more to the war than to the story, wich all in all was a lot like the one in Apocalipse Now.

Quotes
Isn't it better to link to wikiquote than to have quotes on this page?


 * Certainly quotes like the one about the smell of Napalm in the morning and Willard being just an errand boy are pertinent enough, but perhaps the others could be moved to WikiQuote. - redcountess 20:45, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

Link suggestions
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Synopsis edited
I fixed the most obvious spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes in the synopsis. It's still a pretty leaden piece of writing (sorry, whoever you are), but it more closely resembles English now.


 * No kidding; I shudder to think what it was like before you upgraded. I just spent another 45 minutes or so grinding away.  A couple more passes and it'll be a plausible entry. Tim Bray 08:56, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't scenes that only appear in REDUX be listed seprately and not included as scenes in the film. There is a section devoted to REDUX which goes over these scenes. That seems adequate enough, especially since Apocalypse Now and Apocalypse Now: Redux are completey different cuts with different titles.Plumlogan 18:12, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I did some stuff
Put in some stuff to so as to be more specific.

Neanderthalprimadonna 03:52, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Me too
Mr. Clean was 17 in the movie... not 18, so i changed that. ;)

Capsule Review
I am removing for the 2nd time an anon's facilely clever but non-notable and unencyclopedic hair-oriented "capsule review", which adds nothing but a joke to the article. --Jerzy·t 18:38, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In the article, you say that the events depicated in the film are based on true events. Why not talk about the events the film is based on in the article? All information presented here can be gleaned from any other movie website, why not add something to your page that sets it apart from the others?

Influence
The Influence section is getting very long. Does this deserve a page of its own? Stu 10:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

This is one of most recognized images of the Martial Law in Poland. It shows a banner for Apocalypse Now, displayed on 'Kino Moskwa' (kino=cinema, moskwa=moscow (!)) with an APC in front of it. (the vehicle is probably an OT-64) --83.24.25.189 23:19, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Full quote
The napalm quote is misleading. The full quote, transcribed from subtitles. "I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed for 12 hours.  When it was all over, I walked up.  We didn't find one of them, not one stinking dink body.  But the smell-- You know that gasoline smell.  The whole hill smelled like... victory."

People have compared the Kilgore character to the Major Cook character played by Robert Redford in A Bridge too Far. Cook was also untouchable, and twenty years later he might have been a Colonel in Vietnam. It raises the controversial question of whether there was napalm in Europe in WWII. Yes they did. P-47 fighters were armed with napalm in 1945 to take out German tanks. Frizb 02:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Redux (French chapter)
¹ ''actually she left him after he's stoned (and not in condition for doing anything but sleeping). Having sex with Willard would had been "incestuous" (and irrespectful vis-a-vis Hubert de Marais) for Roxanne Sarrault as she is a Hubert de Marais' son widow and she remains with the de Marais family (the French expression is "living under their roof") as a black widow''.
 * I've extended the "Redux" section which was really short of infos: "Willard sleeps with a French..." which is both false¹ and insignificant for the 4-chapter running French Plantation act. I've added two screenshots like it was done for the 1979 cut. "The family together" quote is ironical and a courteous reference to your own "it smells like victory".
 * As a French myself, I tought it could be useful to explain the French Plantation chapter for those who are not familiar with the French political context nor the geopolitical background of this era. This paragraph was meant to be explicit for those who have missed director Copolla's implicit references.
 * The source for "80%", "400 millions $" and the American supply quoted in the American involvement paragraph is the "Diên Biên Phu, chronique d'une bataille oubliée" (Dien Bien Phu: Chronicles of a Forgotten Battle) 2004 documentary written and directed by Peter Hercombe and produced by Transparences Productions. It was broadcasted on the French national TV "France 2" the 4th of May 2006. EnthusiastFRANCE 14:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

--Farialima 09:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC) One wrong fact from this otherwise great article: "...This touchy French political critique was removed from the 1979 cut which was premiered at Cannes, in a time where the French Communist Party was the country's first political strength..." In 1979 the communist party was not anymore "the first political strength" in France. This is factually wrong. The socialist party (with Mitterand at its head) had, at this time, shown its supremacy on the left. I would suppose, however, that Coppola avoided presenting the Cannes crowd and jury with a presentation of France's still recent colonial past that could have created controversy - not directly between communists and others, but definetly between left and right, and possibly within the "socialist" left. Interestingly enough, the short discussion in the dialog about "Pierre Mendes France was a Communist - No he was socialist" reflectd - to this day - the discussions of the origin of the modern left in France. In any case, the dialogs during this scene are quite subtle and cannot really be interpreted as one-sided about France's colonial history. This political presentation is - yet another - aspect that makes this movie quite a masterpiece (but of course this last sentence is not neutral :-)

To Angry Person
Whoever you are who keeps writing that the Themes section is "cowardice," I suggest anger management. Its just a movie.--ben-ze&#39;ev 18:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Tony Po
I did see a documentary a few years ago which claimed that a retired CIA operator by the name of Tony Po was the inspiration behind Kurtz. He had apparently formed something of a private army to carry out his own agenda in Cambodia, and claimed to have been the subject of several CIA assassination attempts. Has anyone else seen this? If so, could we put in some references to it? [JRJW May '06]

Overly pretentious?
'Pretentious' has only recently become a buzzword among people who talk about movies. It's mostly used by the sort of people who post messages at IMDB, and they don't use it very accurately (for instance, adding the unnecessary qualifier). I would bet that no critic actually applied the word to Apocalypse Now, and this is someone's sloppy attempt at a summary of opinion. 70.130.136.215 14:19, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Um, I've heard the word pretentious used to describe movies as far back as the 80's, and I'm sure that it was used at some point before then. You might just have become aware of the word recently on IMDB, but I assure you that people have been using that word to describe certain types of film, art, novels, etc, etc, etc, throughout recent history. Vaginsh 16:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank You!
I've seen Apocalypse Now more than I've seen any other film. Somehow I hadn't looked up the film here in the years I've been on Wikipedia. What a terrific, thorough entry! I own books on AN, I've seen many versions, I've seen the documentary Heart's of Darkness, I own the soundtrack that has talking tracks and I listen to it when I drive sometimes, still I had a lot to learn from this page. Thank you Wikipedia! -JustinHall 14:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Themes
The Eliot poem read by Kurtz is "The Hollow Men," not "The Wasteland."Drogue 08:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

What's intesting is that the poem begins with a quote from the book Heart of Darkness, and it's last line is "This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but with a whimper!", nearly the exact words Hopper's character exclaims before diserting the camp.

In popular culture
Stop removing the trivia -- if it gets to large, then make another article, or don't keep it at all. You're removing certain media references as "trvial" over other trivia which I find more trivial. Falsedef 08:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Should we start a new article, then? (Apocalypse Now in Popular Culture) Ackatsis 02:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I just started a new article for 'A List of Cultural References To Apocalypse Now' Ackatsis 00:58, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

VIdeo clip of Willard's Na Trang Briefing
This is where they tell Willard to "Terminate with Extreme Prejudice"

one of the most bizarre scenes, where the General starts talking about the "dark side" and Harrison Ford gets very uncomfortable listening to this speech, like he has heard it a million times.

But the interesting thing is that Col Lucas (Harrison Ford) seems to recognize Captain WIllard. Someday people will see this as the key to the whole movie. How does Col Lucas know who Captain Willard is? Frizb 00:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Opening scene
This article states that "In 50 Films to See Before You Die, aired on the United Kingdom's Channel 4 on the 22 July 2006, Sheen reveals that the opening scene was completely improvised," however I don't think this is new information, as I recall this is shown in Hearts of Darkness. XinJeisan 23:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC) XinJeisan

speech
Put in full "Napalm" speech —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 136.159.48.76 (talk) 06:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Heavily influenced by aggure
apocalypse now ws not heavily influenced by agguire both the movies were based on the novel heart of darkness so i am removing that part
 * Seeing as how the citations you're removing are coming from quotes by Coppola himself that contradict what you claim, I'm going to side with the actual film director's opinion over yours. Please do not remove valid cited material again. MikeWazowski 08:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

apocalypse now was not heavily influenced by agguire
it is mentioned that it was heavily influenced both by style and substance which is not true even though capolla noted that apocalypse now was influenced by agguire but he never mentioned that it was totally based on agguire.Apocalypse now is not a ripoff of Aggure so i am makiong the mentioned change.


 * It doesn't say "it was totally based on Aguire". It doesn't say "it was a ripoff of Aguire". It says it was heavily influenced by it. That's not the same thing. Cop 633 12:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

plot summary
Whoever keeps writing in the plot summary that Kurtz is insane has obviously missed the point of the entire movie. Kurtz's actions can be interpreted as completely sane, given what is said in his speeches about horror. His penultimate line - that commanders ordered men to drop fire on people but forbade the use of the word "fuck" on their aeroplanes because it was "obscene" - is quite telling. The film asks you - who is the insane one? There is no need to call Kurtz insane here, then, as that is up to the audience to decide. What is more insane - displaying corpses, or hacking the arms off of inoculated children as Kurtz describes (and expresses admiration for)? 68.146.200.201 00:51, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the plot summary on a structural matter; The plot should be reorganized (if not completely rewritten) eliminating the subdivisions of the plot on the grounds that there are no such subdivisions expressly made in the film, and that, as the film is told in a linear style, the (detailed) plot summary should be conducted in a similar fashion.

Also, in addition to a section about the Film's cultural siginficance being created, including the wealth of references to it in popular culture, a subsection, perhaps even another article about Colonel Kurtz's mindset, psyche, and analysis should be created. 72.70.250.167 00:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ApocalypseNowBlack.JPG
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Brando didn't read Conrad?
The article states: "He refused to learn his lines and had not read the book Heart of Darkness."

Now, my memory might fail me, but I've read the autobiography of Marlon Brando, where he states that he went bald to the set (without Coppola knowing) because he read in the book that his character was bald. Do we have a source for the statement that is in the article? On the other hand, it is well known that Brando improvised his lines and all his acting in the movie. Nazroon 04:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

chef dead?
Article reads: "That night, Kurtz comes to the still-bound Willard and places the severed head of Chef in his lap (but it is merely a dream)."

I'm pretty sure chef was indeed killed here. 132.161.221.37 19:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Plot summary!!!!
Ok, I entered a new plot summary in here, the current one was way too long, lousy with spelling errors & the grammar has gotten bad. It needs to be shorter compared to the rest of the article, etc. Tommyt 16:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It needs more of a trim rather than mass deletion. If you spot spelling errors and grammar problems.. FIX THEM! -- maxrspct  ping me  17:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No need to be rude, there were too many errors to count & the synopsis was BADLY BADLY written. IMO, something like that was just too far gone to improve. Sect headings take up too much room & the synopsis was too long, long ones are a source of constant controversy in Wpedia these days. I think it comes down more to users who jealously want to guard their work instead of creating a database that one day can be well written enough to be considered a scholarly source. And, yes, the ROTS summary is also too big, but try fighting the fanboys n' girls on that one! Oh yeah, btw, on your comment about "collaborate don't chop": collaboration obviously hasn't worked here, too many fanboys want their favorite details in there. This is not an essay for a film class (where you would find section headings & overdetailing) it's an encyc article, so the shorter the better on the plot summary. But, I'm through arguing, I wash my hands of the matter. Tommyt 19:02, 22 October 2007 (UTC)